Swollen Ford Lug nuts

[bmaverick]

DEEP CREEP works. Been there with a few Dodge lugnuts already.

How To Use Sea Foam Deep Creep Penetrating Lubricant

You’ve had it, that bolt is stuck. Try a can of Sea Foam Deep Creep. It may just save your sanity, not to mention your pocket book.

knowhow.napaonline.com

https://seafoamworks.com/5-tips-for-loosening-rusted-corroded-and-stubborn-nuts-and-bolts/

 

[gsganzer]

Some folks are discussing lubricating the threads and I don't think I'd ever do that. However, I would put a dab on the face of the nut where it mates with the aluminum rim. This appears to be where the "stuck" problem is coming from.

 

[Oaktree]

Apparently, this is a known issue, and a class action lawsuit was filed against Ford. Man, this is ridiculous trying to remove these blooming things! Apparently, they're 2-part lug nuts with a steel nut and aluminum over wrap. The aluminum swells and galls against the alloy rim. Good grief man, what a PITA! Drilling is looking like my only option.

I'm confused. Are the lugs seized on the studs, or is it just that you can't get a socket on the lugs because the cap is swollen?
Ford isn't the only manufacturer who uses that style lug nuts, I agree they're a PITA.

I always re-torque the lugs after a tire place has mounted tires. Often times they WAY over-tighten them. Usually put a little oil on the threads so they don't seize.

I can remember when I was younger some cars had left hand threads on lugs on one side of the car. I can remember being frustrated by having to guess which way to turn the lug nut.

Yeah, pre-1970 Mopars, LH threads on the left side of the vehicle. There was science behind it, but by the early 70s I guess they'd noticed that none of their competitors' lugs were loosening up on that side so they switched to RH threads on all 4 wheels.

Another odd quirk I never got the point of was old VWs didn't use lug nuts over studs, they'd use a bolt that threaded into the drum. PITA to get a wheel lined up if you had to change a tire. Dunno if they still are that way or not, ISTR they still were in the 80s.

 

[Cougsfan]

I have applied never-seize on lug nuts for the last umpteen years and it seems to prevent problems. It prevents deterioration of the condition of the lugs and lug nut threads. They are usually subject to a nastier than normal environment. It does indeed increase the holding force with the specified torque applied, but if you don't cause damage to the lug or nut, why should you care if it is over tight a bit? People talk about over-torqueing with lubed threads all the time. They never seem to talk about reduced holding power from rusty or damaged threads. Except for applications like cylinder heads and connecting rods, I have never been one to take torque values as an absolute gospel. I view them more like a recommendation.

 

[Jstpssng]

I can remember when I was younger some cars had left hand threads on lugs on one side of the car. I can remember being frustrated by having to guess which way to turn the lug nut.

'60s vintage Dodge vehicles were like that. I've always wondered how many people snapped the left hand lugs off by turning them the wrong way.

Some folks are discussing lubricating the threads and I don't think I'd ever do that. However, I would put a dab on the face of the nut where it mates with the aluminum rim. This appears to be where the "stuck" problem is coming from.

I used never seize for years until I started reading about how it prevented wheels from getting torqued properly.

 

[ericm979]

Another odd quirk I never got the point of was old VWs didn't use lug nuts over studs, they'd use a bolt that threaded into the drum. PITA to get a wheel lined up if you had to change a tire. Dunno if they still are that way or not, ISTR they still were in the 80s.

New VWs still have that. And yes it's a pain to get wheels lined up. You can buy or make a rod with one end threaded to fit into a lug bolt hole in the hub. You use that to position the wheel while you put in a couple bolts, then remove it.

 

[etpm]

Some folks are discussing lubricating the threads and I don't think I'd ever do that. However, I would put a dab on the face of the nut where it mates with the aluminum rim. This appears to be where the "stuck" problem is coming from.

When threads are lubed and then torqued to spec they will put more tensile load on the screw and nut. So the screw can stretch too much. There is another solution, I think, to the corrosion issue. Using a thread locker will tend to provide a barrier between different metals which then prevents electrochemical corrosion because of dissimilar metals in contact with each other. You could try contacting Henkel and asking about this. I know, it seems counter intuitive to use a thread locker to keep threads from locking. But I use low strength thread lockers when assembling stainless nuts to stainless screws. The Loctite helps to prevent galling of the threads.And I'm pretty sure that Loctite does not lubricate the threads enough to significantly affect torque values. My memory is hazy regarding thread lockers and torque so my advice may be bad. But if I was you I would contact Henkel and do a little looking on the web.
As an aside, while writing this post I mentioned looking on the web. I have heard so many times from people complaining about money spent on scientific research. They ask what good is it? How will it benefit me? Myself I don't look for or care about any economic benefit. Just getting answers about the way things work, how nature works, how the universe operates, is good enough for me. I know, integrated circuits and computers are so yesterday, what is giving me a big benefit now? How about those scientists at CERN spending billions just to look for the particle that proves the existence of the field that gives other particles mass which in turn makes our universe possible. What a waste of money. Except that they invented the World Wide Web.
Eric

 

[Paystar]

I recently had to try and help a newish Ram and a Jeep owner on the side of the road trying to get their swollen lug nuts off to change a tire. So it's not just Ford's.

My friend just got uncoated steel replacement nuts for his F150 and that's what I'll do if I keep mine past warranty.

 

[bcp]

I've had three Jeeps with the two-piece lug nuts. No problem at all. We get plenty of water but no salt.

Bruce

 

[bmaverick]

Other than Deep Creek, the next solution without breaking the lug off with the nut is using an angle grinder. It's a little chore, but careful cutting will get the nut off enough to split it in half exposing the threads. When I get 'close enough' a screw driver to pry the nut apart works.

Yes, I've owned Dodge's like this. Those cheap lug nut chrome covers trap in moisture on the steel nut that is totally untreated, thus it swells with rust inside. Deep Creep works when it can get into that tight area and soaks into that rust. It's a gamble every time I come across this event.

There are a few companies that offer SOLID replacements. Those may not be fully chromed, but they are polished and treated. Better than the 2 piece OE versions.

 

[gsganzer]

I'll clarify what my problem was. I might have improperly called them "swollen nuts" (hehe, hate when that happens!)) when in fact they were stuck nuts. There's an issue where the 2-piece nuts swell and the Ford supplied lug wrench will not fit. That wasn't my issue. With my issue, even with a 1200 ft/lb impact driver, we couldn't loosen them. We even tried a breaker bar and cheater pipe, heat etc. but to no avail. It seems like the stainless overwrap (2-piece nuts), gets galled into the aluminum rim. The issue might actually happen when a happy-go-lucky tire installer goes giga-giga with the impact wrench with a little too much gusto. I've never removed these wheels myself. They were always installed, rotated and repaired by Discount Tire. I would have been one pissed off hornet if I was on the side of the road trying to change a flat when this was encountered. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I encountered the problem when trying to do a rear brake job.

My eventual solution was to try what a TBN poster said. I put an impact socket on the lug nut and smacked the crap out of it with a sledgehammer. This is where buying good quality impact tools pays off, I'm not sure some ching-chang-ying chinese crap would have stood up to this. It initially didn't work, but as I was trying to free my socket from the lug nut in defeat, I made a few sideways smacks and that ultimately did it and I was able to loosen them with a Milwaukee cordless impact.

I replaced all of the lug nuts with spline lock nuts from Discount tire. As a preventative, I put a tiny dab of aluminum never-seize on the nut face where it contacts the rim. The initial problem really seems like it was a binding/galling issue of the nut face and the softer aluminum rim, but I could be wrong.

 

[Cataclysm]

I started using anti-seize on lugs wayyy back there after having lug nuts seize and snapping lug bolts.

Since using anti-seize I have yet to have a lug nut seize or break a lug bolt. Zero issues.

 

[Midniteoyl]

My go to solvent is to mix about 25% transmission fluid with 75% acetone. The acetone thins the oil enough to penetrate and then evaporates leaving the oil.

Yep. I use 50/50. Best penetrating oil I have ever used.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I think they are still trying to get them apart. At this point putting things back together with proper torque is a future project.

I agree on the oily threads. From what I've seen in books, typical mechanical practice is to reduce the torque by 10% for oily threads. After all, everyone does it.

I figure that 10% more or less torque is something I'd rather deal with than torn threads and corroded fasteners. So I smear my wheel fasteners with a blob of chassis grease. Threads and faces both. Using anything except that sticky messy moly lube.....
rScotty

I use Nickel Graphite. Just a touch at the beginning of the threads. Usually only need to do it the one time as the stuff stays forever.

 

[riceski]

Anyone else deal with this! Holy swollen nut batman!!! I have a 2014 F-150 and my buddy and I went to do a rear brake job today. Out of the 12 rear nuts, we could only remove 6. That's with trying PB blaster, using a 1200 ft/lb pneumatic impact wrench, 20V Dewalt impact wrench and (3) 1/2" breaker bars with 3' cheater bar (broke all three breaker bars), and trying a micro butane torch. WTF??? We still never removed both rear tires. If I was on the side of the road with a flat and ran into this issue, I probably would have set fire to the dang thing. WOW! I can't believe the level of effort we've made and still not succeeded. Has anyone else gone through this? What was the solution? I'm about to drill all the studs and snap them off, then replace them.

Klutch Torque Multiplier 1in. Drive, 3540 Ft.-Lbs. Max. Torque | Northern Tool

The Klutch Torque Multiplier is a newly designed wheel wrench that allows user to easily loosen truck tire or car tire lug nuts. This wrench requir...

www.northerntool.com

The link is to a compound Torque Wrench made for this sort of thing.

 

[HighTwelve]

Find a friend with an induction tool. You could always buy one, but they are around $400. Mine is a “Bolt Buster”. You wrap the insulated wire coils around the nut or bolt and push the button and within about 30 seconds it heats the bolt red hot. To double the effect spray brake cleaner on the red hot bolt or nut to rapidly cool it down. Usually that breaks any corrosion bond. The bolts or nuts are of course toasted after that and go in the scrap metal pile because any tempering is gone.

I restore antique tractors. It works every time it’s tried

 

[rlipeles]

Anyone else deal with this! Holy swollen nut batman!!! I have a 2014 F-150 and my buddy and I went to do a rear brake job today. Out of the 12 rear nuts, we could only remove 6. That's with trying PB blaster, using a 1200 ft/lb pneumatic impact wrench, 20V Dewalt impact wrench and (3) 1/2" breaker bars with 3' cheater bar (broke all three breaker bars), and trying a micro butane torch. WTF??? We still never removed both rear tires. If I was on the side of the road with a flat and ran into this issue, I probably would have set fire to the dang thing. WOW! I can't believe the level of effort we've made and still not succeeded. Has anyone else gone through this? What was the solution? I'm about to drill all the studs and snap them off, then replace them.

When I used to do car work I had something called a nut buster. it was a tool with a hole about 1 1/2" in diameter and it had a chisel that advanced into the hole as the bolt was rotated. You slipped the tool over the nut and tightened the bolt until the chisel cracked the nut. Check on eBay for Nut Buster they have several different styles.

 

[Chas Kerr]

Sorry,

I didn't read this close enough, if its a corrosion issue, this is amazing, but it maybe damage the lug nuts, but I have had amazing success with this, but more so for NOT snapping bolts. this applies a vertical hammer to the nut.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M23A6...06b998e83f4b0&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

This would be a great thing to have. I live out in the country and a distant neighbor had a flat on his truck on the road in front of my house. So I was intent on helping him get the tire changed. I tried all of the above, long extensions and pipe extensions with heavy weight on the end of it.
After the third trip back to my house to fetch tools I tried a 1/2” impact hand held driver with a heavy hammer. That did the trick. We got the tire changed with this primative tool. The tool mentioned about could do the trick with when air is handy.

 

[chatwithtom]

use this. there are cheaper ones available. Amazon.com: Rusted Bolt Removal Tool Induction Heating Bolt Remover Flameless Safety Quickly Bolt Remover Tool for Rusted/Frozen/Corrosive Bolt/Nut from Car and Machine 110V : Automotive

 

[Tony H]

I can remember when I was younger some cars had left hand threads on lugs on one side of the car. I can remember being frustrated by having to guess which way to turn the lug nut.

Early 70 Mopars. Passenger side. Theory is, Rotation of tire on that side would cause big nuts to loosen.