SUV vs. Pick-up

[JDgreen227]

An SUV (except Suburban or Ford equivalent) has a shorter wheel base and a softer suspension. That will make it more squirrely if things go wrong.

It's the classic "tail wagging the dog" syndrome.

Ken

My understanding is that wheelbase aside, the shorter the distance between the rear axle and the hitchball, the better the stabiity when towing.

 

[Ken45101]

My understanding is that wheelbase aside, the shorter the distance between the rear axle and the hitchball, the better the stabiity when towing.

Yes, that's why fifth wheels and gooseneck hitches are much more stable.

Ken

 

[yelbike]

You guys have flawed logic. The manufacture rates the vehicles at what is safe. How is towing at max rating with a SUV any different the with a 1/2 Dodge Ram a 1 ton F350? They rate them at what they can do and warranty. You don't need a 3/4 ton ram to pull a log splitter or even a little 7K dump.

I towed Corvettes many many miles behind my wifes V8 2004 Mountaineer and my 5600# *******. All this on my 18' car hauler. It was plenty capable and safe. The shortest trip was 120 miles and the longest maybe 250. Yes, I had the big PowerStroke F350 but many times we had kids, dog, and belongings to take with.

As for what changed in the early 2000's start with disc brakes, more gears in the trannys, larger cooling systems and oil sumps, ect.

Chris

I have a 2003 Tahoe rated for about 6500 lbs. I towed 3500lbs camper from Winnipeg to LA. Crossing the continental devide and some of the passes in the rockies. I'm glad I was nowhere near full capacity. 9000km round trip.

If your braking distance is shorter with a trailer attached your set up is wrong. Too much brakes on the trailer. The trailer is not suppose to stop the tow vehicle but enhance its braking force. If you set up like that and you hit ice or gravel, you'll find your trailer passing you sideways.

 

[Dmace]

If you set up like that and you hit ice or gravel, you'll find your trailer passing you sideways.

Wrong, if your trailer brakes are not working properly and your truck stops faster than your trailer THEN the trailer can get out of control or jack knife. If the trailer is stopping quicker than the truck, it's impossible for the trailer to pass you...

If the trailer brakes are not strong enough, the trailer can easily push you around. It should be slowing you before your vehicle brakes even start working.

 

[jejeosborne]

SGFarm, either vehicle you mentioned will meet the tow requirements you are requesting. Just depends how often you need exterior space vs interior space. Interior space is harder to add than exterior space because all you need is a small utility trailer to fulfill that need. I would expect the utility vehicle possibly more spongy due to having more weight and higher center of gravity.

Dmace,
As far as trailer brakes, I have owned six trailers that have had electric trailer brakes. Single axle popups to tandum 29' travel trailer with 5000 lb axles. Never has my braking distance been shorter with a trailer than when empty. My current truck has a built in brake controller and my previous one had a prodigy controller many believe to be the best. Neither set up will allow the trailer brakes to lock up on dry pavement at maximum gain unless for example my car hauler is lightly loaded. Yes they can stop the truck by themselves but not very fast. Ideally the max. gain should be adjusted to the point right before the tires lock up. Unfortunately most drum electric brakes don't supply enough force to achieve this. Even if they were capable of this, the undampened suspension on the trailer, the additional tongue weight, lack of ABS, trailer tire poorer traction, maintaining alighnment, etc all add to stopping distance. True in a routine stop, my trailers will many times be doing more than their fair share of the stopping. In an emergency stop, I will promise you, your trailer will be pushing your tow vehicle even on dry pavement. Please drive with extra distance between you and the vehicle in front of you while towing because you will NOT stop quicker.

 

[Dmace]

If you can't lock up your trailer brakes on dry pavement then your setup is wrong not mine. Thats also a requirement for an inspection sticker in NH...

 

[VTFireftr]

I've got both.

2005 F250 Powerstorke Diesel 4x4 supercab longbed and a 2008 Expedition.

I bought the pickup new and now have more than 190K miles on it. Due to the price of diesel fuel going thru the roof, I don't drive it as much as I would like. I also try ro stay within 500 miles of home in case of a major part failure (see mileage above).

Bought the Expedition used last March from a multi line dealer. I knew it was a former rental (ran a Car fax report and a Ford Oasis report). Made the dealer through in a 4 year 48K mile Ford Premium ESP as part of the deal.

This is a very comfortable truck. The wife an I pulled our motorcycles out to the Black Hills of South Dakota last August. About 4500 miles round trip with only a samll hiccup (cvoered under warranty upon returning home).

We have 3 dogs so this is a great truck for taking the dogs with us when we travel. Lots of room for them to be comfortable. And it gets about 18mpg when we don't pull the trailer.

As for trailer brakes, out trailer has them on both axels. The pickup has the built in Ford controller which is the best sytem I have ever used for towing. I installed a Prodigy 3 in the Expedition before our trip. It's a great controller, but not as seemless as the built in controller.

Each truck has its pros and cons. I'm just lucky I have the choice to drive either (if the wife hasn't already taken the one I want to drive at the time)

 

[Diamondpilot]

If you can't lock up your trailer brakes on dry pavement then your setup is wrong not mine. Thats also a requirement for an inspection sticker in NH...

I have worked on trailers for years and years. The only trailers I have seen be able to lock up the brakes on dry pavement is empty trailers. No way you are going to lock up the brakes on a loaded 14K GN or 5th wheel.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

The only trailers I have seen be able to lock up the brakes on dry pavement is empty trailers. No way you are going to lock up the brakes on a loaded 14K GN or 5th wheel.

Chris

Who said anything about a loaded trailer locking the brakes?

 

[newbury]

So I am thinking I should have a heavier truck.

I currently drive a 1994 Suburban with 350 and 4x4. I have added a leaf to the rear springs. But I have been towing heavy loads of hay and want a 3/4 ton.

I can see advantages to both the 3/4 Suburban or a crew cab 4x4 pick up. Lots of lockable interior dry storage so I can get 30 bags of feed in the rain and not worry with the SUV. But with a truck I can throw firewood in the back. I think the SUV might have better traction in the snow since there is more weight over the back tires.

Just debating.

Thanks

Mike

Before I bought my '88 Ford 7.3 Maxivan I worked in a job where I often had to transport 4'x8' sheets of wallboard with aerial imagery stapled on them.

To move them with a pickup would require lot of bundling. To put them in my Maxivan requires resting them on the bench seats, or taking out the seats.

As schmism wrote:

You also might consier a full size van.

My E350 (one ton van) was 1/4 the cost of a 3/4 or 1ton pickup of the same vintage.

My 12 pass lived a life of a church van so it wasnt all beat up like some of the other one ton utility vans.

Ive used it more with no seats than with seats. I can get full 4x8 sheets inside flat on the floor, i can fit 10' sticks of lumber and conduit inside with the door closed and you can side load a full size pallet through the side doors. They have more interior height than a pickup with a topper and much more than a full size SUV. Gas millage is virutally the same as a pickup or full size SUV.<snip>

But you can also transform it into a rolling party palace/rec vehicle. I often took the family of 6 plus dog on extended vacation and could even camp in the van.

However a minivan is more practical for everyday, run-around town use.

As Ken wrote

A crew cab pickup with a full size bed is a big vehicle! It doesn't fit into parking spaces all that well When it comes to tight places, it seems to have the turning radius of an aircraft carrier! <snip>

A full size dually pickup is big. But it will pull your house. And get 10mpg.

And as Rich wrote:

<snip> I finally got rid of the pick ups and the van. The Explorer gets decent gas mileage for a 4wd vehicle, and it hauls what I need with a trailer. I never thought I'd get rid of my trucks, and I agonized over getting rid of them, but I actually don't miss them and I use a heck of lot less gas. Plus my wife now drives a 4 cylinder Dodge Caravan. That thing gets 25-30 mpg and actually has quite a bit of cargo room inside.

And the Caravan can hold ALOT with all the seats out.

So:

this is my preferred solution.

The '88 van for mixed transportation. The dually diesel 350 for when you got to haul (only gets 14mpg) and the 4 banger minivan for loads to small to justify the dually (27mpg). And a Jetta TDI wagon (47mpg) for most of the rest.

The dually is also slated for hauling gooseneck and 5'vers, which none of the other can do.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Who said anything about a loaded trailer locking the brakes?

Tell me how you are going to unload a 5th wheel? Even unloaded of personal items my neighbors 5th wheel is 11,900#. Average travel weight is 14,500#.

My boat with no fuel, water, or gear is just over 14,000# empty. My across the scales weight is 15,600#.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

Tell me how you are going to unload a 5th wheel? Even unloaded of personal items my neighbors 5th wheel is 11,900#. Average travel weight is 14,500#.

My boat with no fuel, water, or gear is just over 14,000# empty. My across the scales weight is 15,600#.

Chris

I thought you knew trailers...
As far as a camper is concerned, it's "dry weight" is "unloaded" and it's rated GVWR would be"loaded". For example, my 29ft travel trailer is rated at 7700 GVWR and 4600 dry. When it's empty, it can easily drag all four tires on pavement.
Obviously with a camper, the braking distances increase but with light trailers like my dump trailer, car hauler, v-nose sled trailer etc... all drag the truck down when braking just as quickly if not better than just the truck.
Maybe I should be warning the ones new to towing about all these people pulling loads they can't stop effectively...

 

[jejeosborne]

I thought you knew trailers...
As far as a camper is concerned, it's "dry weight" is "unloaded" and it's rated GVWR would be"loaded". For example, my 29ft travel trailer is rated at 7700 GVWR and 4600 dry. When it's empty, it can easily drag all four tires on pavement.
Obviously with a camper, the braking distances increase but with light trailers like my dump trailer, car hauler, v-nose sled trailer etc... all drag the truck down when braking just as quickly if not better than just the truck.
Maybe I should be warning the ones new to towing about all these people pulling loads they can't stop effectively...

"Unloaded" refers to the axles which I thought I made clear in my post. Even using your definition, my travel trailer will not skid tires on a dry surface. My boat trailer will not either unless the boat is in the water and the trailer is "unloaded"!

Don't tell me my bakes are defective because they are perfect. A 3500 lb axle has a 2"x10" drum which doesn't allow enough braking force to skid the tire. My 5000 lb axles have 12" drums and still not enough.

Please show us a video describing all you claim. As Judge Judy would say, "RIDICULOUS"!

Only logical thing I can see is that your truck brakes are weak or defective and you are seeing improved braking while towing. Might want to look into that because you might be a risk while not towing too.

Any yes, everyone new needs to know that ANYONE, including yourself, towing ANY trailer (loaded, unloaded, dry, wet, big, small, dry pavement, wet pavement, etc) will require MORE room to stop.

 

[Diamondpilot]

"Unloaded" refers to the axles which I thought I made clear in my post. Even using your definition, my travel trailer will not skid tires on a dry surface. My boat trailer will not either unless the boat is in the water and the trailer is "unloaded"!

Don't tell me my bakes are defective because they are perfect. A 3500 lb axle has a 2"x10" drum which doesn't allow enough braking force to skid the tire. My 5000 lb axles have 12" drums and still not enough.

Please show us a video describing all you claim. As Judge Judy would say, "RIDICULOUS"!

Only logical thing I can see is that your truck brakes are weak or defective and you are seeing improved braking while towing. Might want to look into that because you might be a risk while not towing too.

Any yes, everyone new needs to know that ANYONE, including yourself, towing ANY trailer (loaded, unloaded, dry, wet, big, small, dry pavement, wet pavement, etc) will require MORE room to stop.

I agree. Foot in mouth again. No way you are going to skid any of the heavier trailers I pull. Yes, I can skid my car hauler empty but no way on a 5th wheel or comparable trailer where the empty weight is 75% of the gvwr.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

Don't tell me my bakes are defective because they are perfect. A 3500 lb axle has a 2"x10" drum which doesn't allow enough braking force to skid the tire. My 5000 lb axles have 12" drums and still not enough.

Please show us a video describing all you claim. As Judge Judy would say, "RIDICULOUS"!

Ok, I won't tell you your brakes are defective. Since the trailers were brand new then your brake controller must be the problem.
Here's a video from a quick internet search showing a "loaded" car trailer locking the brakes at 45 mph with NO truck brakes at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mR89sT0YfA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I wonder how much "braking force" that took..

 

[jejeosborne]

Ok, I won't tell you your brakes are defective. Since the trailers were brand new then your brake controller must be the problem.
Here's a video from a quick internet search showing a "loaded" car trailer locking the brakes at 45 mph with NO truck brakes at all.
Emergency Stopping - Skid vs. ABS - YouTube
I wonder how much "braking force" that took..

It took a lot of "braking force" WOW. I enjoyed watching your video of an aftermarket HYDRAULIC brake system. Please be carefull and learn about the video before posting next time so that I don't have to spend time shooting holes in your "proof". Notice also that those axles have 8 lugs on them. What are they? 15,000 lb axles? Not a typical car trailer I have ever seen. If so, a 5000lb truck isn't loading that trailer much.

Even if I installed this elaborate hydraulic anti-lock braking system to all my trailers, my stopping distance will still be greater than the empty tow vehicle. Do you still not agree?

 

[Dmace]

Even if I installed this elaborate hydraulic anti-lock braking system to all my trailers, my stopping distance will still be greater than the empty tow vehicle. Do you still not agree?

I agree a LOADED trailer will add to your braking distance but an unloaded trailer should add very little distance if any at all. You seem to think a couple of hundred pounds of tongue weight is really going to affect a trucks brakes. You must drive a foreign truck. Even with 2000 lbs of payload in the bed the real trucks only needed 2-6ft more stopping distance from 60 mph.
http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2010/08/2010-hd-brake-tests.html
Maybe those 14k empty 5th wheel trailers can't lock up the tires but I feel if a trailer can't then it's brakes are under sized. If I can find time with some dry roads, I'll be sure to make a video for those reading impaired to watch. I know my truck and empty trailer combo can stop just as fast as a truck alone. Then again, none of my trailers are over 5k lbs empty.

 

[Diamondpilot]

So now you are backtracking. Lol.... Maybe its just that your Dodges brakes are so poor the trailer on will help it? Maybe its time for a REAL truck old buddy!

Stop while you can still climb out of the hole.

Chris

 

[yelbike]

So now you are backtracking. Lol.... Maybe its just that your Dodges brakes are so poor the trailer on will help it? Maybe its time for a REAL truck old buddy!

Stop while you can still climb out of the hole.

Chris

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: