Some illumination please

/ Some illumination please #1  

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About to step into the world of wire feed welders coming from stick machines.. Two questions: 1. How much welding in terms of linear measurement (feet or inches) before you have to replace a tip?
2. How many inches of welds can be had with a .30 2lb roll? Same as 2 lbs of stick?
This will be a flux core machine if that makes any difference.
 
/ Some illumination please #2  
About to step into the world of wire feed welders coming from stick machines.. Two questions: 1. How much welding in terms of linear measurement (feet or inches) before you have to replace a tip?
2. How many inches of welds can be had with a .30 2lb roll? Same as 2 lbs of stick?
This will be a flux core machine if that makes any difference.

As for first question..... Probably 10-12 two pound rolls and maybe on 2nd or 3rd contact tip for me (over about 7 years) and contact tips are really cheap.....

Keep in mind with MIG (GMAW - Gas Metal Arc Weld) the filler material is all filler so two pounds of wire is total weight useable, two pounds of FCAW (Flux Core Arc Weld) maybe 40% of weight is flux and as stick, 2 pounds of stick includes a certain amount of weight that is flux.... To compare wire in inches of weld vs stick (size) is try to compare apples and oranges....

DISCLAIMER: Numbers are not precise but a generalization ...

Suggest you get a machined that is both FCAW and GMAW capable..... I have pretty much abandon FCAW except for desperation (welding conditions - dirty work and breeze)

Need some enlightenment on wire welding...

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

How NOT TO Weld: Most Common MIG Welding Mistakes (Everlast PowerMTS) - YouTube

Dale
 
/ Some illumination please #3  
Question as stated is impossible to answer.

You can run a few hundred pounds of wire thru a tip or you can run a few feet and ruin de tip. Flux machine only gonna eat more tips due to lack of cooling of de tip by gas flow. Expanding gas in nozzle is refrigeration by expansion.

Flux only machine bad investment! Only good thing bout it is when you buy real machine you can use flux machine to cut foam, passivate Stainless and a few other tings.
 
/ Some illumination please #4  
Yeah, I've gone through many pounds of wire in my old cheezy harbor freight flux core welder without changing a tip... the hardest thing on tips is holding the tip too close to the weld, get too close and you weld the wire to the tip, I've only done that a couple times... still welding fine.

Flux core has it's limitations and isn't always pretty but it is VERY handy as all you need is the welder, it's self contained... I put a big spool in my Titanium MIG 170 after I went through the original small spool and it just keeps going... once I get my shop going I'll set up my Unlimited 200 on gas and keep the 170 as flux...

In short, pick up a spare pack of tips, tape them in the side compartment of the welder for whenever it comes up so you're prepared but it likely won't be an issue...
 
/ Some illumination please
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks DL, very comprehensive.
(removed), I like your chainsaw files (just kidding) also I learned a new word...passivate. I just need something quick for thinner metals.
Ranger, thanks for the hands on experience.

I never understood what the deal is with the "stack of dimes" look. Other than looks, what are the benefits? I seem to like the "bead of caulk" look as if your finger ran down the weld to smooth it out like you do with caulking.. That would prolly hurt however.
 
/ Some illumination please #6  
I tend to watch "arc" more and where it is depositing the puddle to get a good molecular bond between the two welded pieces, stack of dimes is pretty, but a half ugly weld that does not fail is very acceptable to me.......

Dale
 
/ Some illumination please #7  
I've heard the stack of dimes welds are weaker because of all of the stress risers which makes sense...

I'd rather have penetration and a somewhat consistent weld than a pretty weld, that's hard enough working on random stuff sporadically
 
/ Some illumination please #8  
About to step into the world of wire feed welders coming from stick machines.. Two questions: 1. How much welding in terms of linear measurement (feet or inches) before you have to replace a tip?
2. How many inches of welds can be had with a .30 2lb roll? Same as 2 lbs of stick?
This will be a flux core machine if that makes any difference.
Kinda depend's on how much metal you deposit as spatter and how much is left over for bead. :D

Thanks DL, very comprehensive.
(removed), I like your chainsaw files (just kidding) also I learned a new word...passivate. I just need something quick for thinner metals.
Ranger, thanks for the hands on experience.

I never understood what the deal is with the "stack of dimes" look. Other than looks, what are the benefits? I seem to like the "bead of caulk" look as if your finger ran down the weld to smooth it out like you do with caulking.. That would prolly hurt however.
What good is stack of dimes? In the technical sense,not much. In GMAW it can be a way for sorry welders to show off and impress boy friends.
In all processes,it look's good and is prefered by many product consumers. For a person that doesn't have a great amount of expertise in judging weld beads but does understand what a decent toe look's like,stack of dimes without excessive crown might be indication of weldor's ability to control the puddle. Of all things welding,puddle control is required to do everything else correct. I would suggest as an exercise,one could pratice making stacks on scrap until they can do them while concentrating on other factors. Can I,do I stack dimes? No but I can stack washers on any rod you hand me. :jester:
 
/ Some illumination please #9  
The whole " stack of dimes " verbiage IMO is just to refer to the ultimate weld look which is Tig. The closer you can come to a Tig looking weld with Mig seems to bring out the stack of dimes comparison. I too am guilty of enjoying the Mig stack of dimes ( I have equipment that will do it with all filler metals ) but C6 metal core on twin pulse will make a sub arc looking bead and looks great. No dimes there. Same when you drag twin pulse stainless. Looks like it's painted on. So stack of dimes is a goal of many but there are other cool beads to be made as well even spray and the benefit of a weld is on the inside not the outside..
 
/ Some illumination please #10  
About to step into the world of wire feed welders coming from stick machines.. Two questions: 1. How much welding in terms of linear measurement (feet or inches) before you have to replace a tip?
2. How many inches of welds can be had with a .30 2lb roll? Same as 2 lbs of stick?
This will be a flux core machine if that makes any difference.
The answer is YES.

It's operator dependent. Like asking how many miles per gallon does a car get.
 
/ Some illumination please #11  
I have never heard stacked dimes with mig before. Why would anyone do that? I have only heard that term with fast freeze rods.

I have never liked flux core wire. Give me gas and no wind. :thumbsup:
 
/ Some illumination please #12  
The best "look" for a weld is the uniform width, height and ripples of the weld metal. Stack of dimes look is current fad that does nothing for the weld quality other than maybe degrade it if not done correctly. When I was welding, the best welds were the uniform ones with closely spaced ripples that were identical for the entire weld from end to end, top to bottom.

No one wants a pressure piping weld with stack of dimes look, that is just for the showmanship award for Youtubers. If you tried doing that in a ASME or AWS Code welding job, they would quickly fire you.
 
/ Some illumination please #13  
About to step into the world of wire feed welders coming from stick machines.. Two questions: 1. How much welding in terms of linear measurement (feet or inches) before you have to replace a tip?
2. How many inches of welds can be had with a .30 2lb roll? Same as 2 lbs of stick?
This will be a flux core machine if that makes any difference.

Question 1 is subjective to welder skill due to many factors. If you used a robot welder that does everything perfectly, then a tip would rarely need to be replaced. They do wear out eventually due to the wire running thru them that may eventually wear the hole out so big that electrical continuity might be compromised but a home welder would never use that much wire. The usually wear out from arcing the tip on FCAW or splatter getting on them and welding the wire to the tip. A good anti-splatter spray to keep the buckshot from sticking will extend the tip life, but tips are cheap to replace.
2. You get lots more weld from a 2 pound roll of wire than you do with a stick since the flux is very thick on the stick rod. How much more, cant say, Google it and I am sure you can find an answer. I believe there is a Weld.com YouTube that does a very detailed weight /time/cost analysis on the various processes). MIG will give you about 85-95% deposition rate (you do loose a little with splatter but not as much as FCAW wire.)

I have to second the suggestion about getting a machine that will do both MIG and FCAW unless you plan to get two machines and just keep flux wire in one and MIG wire in the other.
I started out with a 120 volt Titanium 125 FCAW machine from Harbor Freight and it works very well and I still use it sometimes especially if I need to weld something that is outside my shop. I can run a heavy extension cord as much as 100+ feet long and still weld very well with it but only FCAW welding.
My combo machines can run 120/220 but are too heavy to move around without the rolling cart (about 50# without factoring in the wire, gun, power cable) where as the Titanium is about 11# total( not including weight of any extension cords needed) which means I can put the shoulder strap on it and walk around with it.
After using the Titanium 125, I added an Everlast combination plasma torch and TIG/Stick machine but mostly just use it as plasma or TIG.
I also added another Harbor Freight MIG/TIG/FCAW/Stick in the form of a Vulcan OmniPro 220 that I use most with MIG.
I still prefer to stick rod with my Miller 250 amp Dialarc machine with is the old style transformer type which I still think has the smoother arc than the inverter machines.
That is my nickel's worth (a bit more than 2 cents worth )of advice.
 
/ Some illumination please
  • Thread Starter
#14  
I'm about to glue together this ditching bucket I wanna make. I have all the metal cut (those "cold cut" blades are super) and was planning to tack and stitch it all together with the stick and finish weld with the flux core.
Total length of weld might be about 12'. Nothing thicker than 1/4" except for the 1/2" cutting edge and a couple 3' pieces of 3" channel that looks about 1/4" also.
This would be my largest welding project to date
I just thought the wire feeder would be a machine of less interruption.

Now to be truthful about it all: I'm a guy of simplicity. Whether fault, flaw or noble, I have always tried to do the most with the least.
I don't want to bother with regulators, bottles, filling, regulator adjustment, carts etc.,etc.

I just want something that welds like a stick that I don't have to start and stop, restart an arc, deal with sticking rods, creating a higher amperage so the rod doesn't stick only to blow through metal because the weld is too hot.
Have dealt with this since I got the Longevity 140 stick welder about 8 yrs ago. Was it better than the AC Century transformer welder I use to use with 7014? Yes but it has not operated as smoothly as I would have liked and now the display is all curfluy reading 25-140 on any given weld.
Only hope that at least the dial is actually working correctly.
I'm thinking that I should be able to weld with a 1/8" Hobart 7018 rod between 105 and 115 amps.
Only heaven knows what the machine is actually putting out.
 
/ Some illumination please #15  
Well it depends, yes for continuous welding yes to MIG, till you run up against duty cycle.... The materials you are using sort of says its to big a project for 120 Volt FCAW machine but you can do it with one if you "V" groove joints and prep joint lines properly and maybe do multipass, but I would really suggest a 240Volt (200+amp) machine, and by the time you get a 240V machine its probably also going to be GMAW (solid wire/gas) capable ... One of the beauties of GMAW is no SLAG....

Screw stack of dimes and judge welds by what you see in this video....

How NOT TO Weld: Most Common MIG Welding Mistakes (Everlast PowerMTS) - YouTube

Yes I know, same video as in my first post.....

Dale
 
/ Some illumination please
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Well it depends, yes for continuous welding yes to MIG, till you run up against duty cycle.... The materials you are using sort of says its to big a project for 120 Volt FCAW machine but you can do it with one if you "V" groove joints and prep joint lines properly and maybe do multipass, but I would really suggest a 240Volt (200+amp) machine, and by the time you get a 240V machine its probably also going to be GMAW (solid wire/gas) capable ... One of the beauties of GMAW is no SLAG....

Screw stack of dimes and judge welds by what you see in this video....



How NOT TO Weld: Most Common MIG Welding Mistakes (Everlast PowerMTS) - YouTube

Yes I know, same video as in my first post.....

Dale
Which I found very helpful and yes I was planning to prep the crap out of it.
Problem here DL is that I only have 10/2 going out to the garage. I have a 30 amp dedicated circuit I use to plug into.
I could be wrong but I'm not thinking there are many 220 volt welders that will draw less than 30 amps.
In hindsight, I should have ran 8/2 to the garage.

I agree; no slag is a beautiful thing.
 
/ Some illumination please #17  
Which I found very helpful and yes I was planning to prep the crap out of it.
Problem here DL is that I only have 10/2 going out to the garage. I have a 30 amp dedicated circuit I use to plug into.
I could be wrong but I'm not thinking there are many 220 volt welders that will draw less than 30 amps.
In hindsight, I should have ran 8/2 to the garage.

I agree; no slag is a beautiful thing.

Think If you do research 10 gauge wire is acceptable for 30 amp welding circuit, your only problem may be that shop/garage may not be wire to accept 240V... With quality extension cord you can always snag 240V from a electric clothes drier circuit if you have one....

Ampacity Charts - Cerrowire

Suggest you look at specifications (mains side) to get good numbers for any welder in which you are interested in instead of sort of off the wall guess......

A Hobart Handler 210MVP for example states it requires a minimum of 14 gauge wire and only draws 24 amps on 240VAC...

Also welder supply circuits fall under different NEC statutes than standard circuits like for electric clothes driers and such...

This also makes me wonder about you stick machine, 120 or 240V?

Dale
 
/ Some illumination please #18  
I think lot of people be very surprised if dey put Amprobe or even cheap digital amp meter on the in side of a welder power supply. Dat amperage number on nameplate is MAXIMUM de machine pulls running at maximum output.

220 welder burning 1/8 rod probably not pulling 20 amps from de plug.

Like de ad used to say, Try it you'll like it.
 
/ Some illumination please
  • Thread Starter
#19  
I have two 30 amp breakers ganged going out there. It terminates at a 20 amp plug instead of the standard whatever size socket a 220 welder takes (50 amp?). Did I already have 220 all along?
I'm not sure about whoever wired it this way but I'd like to know if I already had 220.
I found this out tonite when the welder stopped and all the lights went out to the garage. If this was supposed to be a dedicated circuit, why'd the lights go out? Obviously the circuit is feeding the entire garage but the welder socket is on a separate breaker within the garage.
The breakers in the cellar will not click on so I must have fried them.
I even shut the mains off to see if they'd hold and they did not.
 
/ Some illumination please #20  
Something does not sound right. Possibly the breakers are doing their job and protecting you? Did the welder breaker trip as well? Can you post a picture of the 30 amp ganged breaker?
 

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