Solar production. Panel ratings/claim vs reality

[davrow]

Have you looked into solar systems with export limits? Some California utilities are ok with larger solar systems if the maximum export is capped.
All the best, Peter

Actually, I'm thinking I will just feed a new panel with what I want solar (with batteries) powered and leave the main panel for the grid stuff. I see no reason to involve the utility company at all with this approach. Fewer hoops to jump through. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[jyoutz]

In truth, this is kinda a strong side of eventual solar power de-centralization. You could eliminate the need to run the expensive infrastructure out to reach a dozen homes miles from anything else. Suburban and urban areas, it's probably not the future. I still think it's a mix of all sources that is needed. Nothing wrong with a remote location having solar on every home, but also propane generators for surge needs, or diesel. People don't want to hear it, but a power company (or internet or gas) is probably loosing money on every rural customer. If you look at the number of poles to reach a home (or underground feet, but that's far more $$$), if you have more than maybe 4 poles per rate paying customer, they are all probably costing the utility money, unless it's a high usage, commercial customer.

That’s why most rural areas are served by non profit rural electric cooperatives.

 

[paulsharvey]

With out going to far down a rabbit hole; was speaking with an engineer for a large power company about a problem, work involved. He has a single customer, dead end line, feeding an abandoned house, that he has to spend something like $160k to replace the feed too. That's not anything he can pass on to them, they have to eat the cost to maintain the connection. He half jokingly brought up, we could have bought and installed them a solar system for way less. Not an actual option of coarse, it has an existing connection that must be continued by the utility.

To make it worse, it's his end point, the co-op picks up further south, so it's strictly a single abandoned home.

 

[ericm979]

I can't find the article now but I read somewhere that utilities are installing solar+battery mini power plants to serve small groups of far flung rural homes where maintaining a line is expensive. It might not be in the US, we tend to lag on some of these things.

 

[Grumpycat]

I can't find the article now but I read somewhere that utilities are installing solar+battery mini power plants to serve small groups of far flung rural homes where maintaining a line is expensive. It might not be in the US, we tend to lag on some of these things.

Article from 2019:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-megapack-utility-scale-energy-storage

 

[paulsharvey]

So, don't know if anyone ever noticed; but you know who really pushed the early cell phones, and was leaps ahead od the US? Ericcson and Nokia, Swedish and Finnish companies. Apparently, they were very early adopters of cell phones, because they are both Very large countries, each with a couple denser areas, and scattered very low density areas. They were able to run a fiber (or copper in the earlier era) out to cell towers, and then feed something like a 25 mile radius out from the tower.

Point being; I could see micro solar package plants, being a very good option in India, much of Africa, Egypt, the northern 'Stan's, ect. Where the base infrastructure is limited. If we say a package solar plant could be shipped in 4 containers, (easily slung off a Mi-26 were roads are limited), and power up a hundred village center, for a reasonable rate. I'm not talking about 5000 acre solar farms; I'm talking about lights in maybe 8 commercial-gov buildings, a well pump, and water treatment, and maybe 20 amps worth to the closest residences.

Some super dirty, fast numbers, you could provide something like a very limited supply. to roughly 160 homes per acre of panels. Note; I'm not talking US homes, I'm talking about a light bulb or two, some USB charging, and a fan.

 

[ponytug]

I can't find the article now but I read somewhere that utilities are installing solar+battery mini power plants to serve small groups of far flung rural homes where maintaining a line is expensive. It might not be in the US, we tend to lag on some of these things.

I don't know of any in the US, either.

A relative is doing that overseas. His company specializes in alternative energy supplies. For places like say islands, solar, plus battery, plus a generator makes for a robust power subsystem, typically with a much lower cost per kWh, due to the high supply costs of diesel to remote places.

In the US, the Rural Electrification Act got power to most remote places, but there are always folks building off grid installations, especially when the hook up costs by the utility is exorbitant, like that certain executive in the Bay Area, whose utility wanted an insane amount of money ($270k) to run the power a few hundred feet to his place. He put in solar and a large battery (not a MegaPack, next size down) for less.

US armed forces use solar plus batteries as well for certain sites. Forward costs of diesel can be hundreds of dollars per gallon, and silence also has its value.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ultrarunner]

So, don't know if anyone ever noticed; but you know who really pushed the early cell phones, and was leaps ahead od the US? Ericcson and Nokia, Swedish and Finnish companies. Apparently, they were very early adopters of cell phones, because they are both Very large countries, each with a couple denser areas, and scattered very low density areas. They were able to run a fiber (or copper in the earlier era) out to cell towers, and then feed something like a 25 mile radius out from the tower.

Point being; I could see micro solar package plants, being a very good option in India, much of Africa, Egypt, the northern 'Stan's, ect. Where the base infrastructure is limited. If we say a package solar plant could be shipped in 4 containers, (easily slung off a Mi-26 were roads are limited), and power up a hundred village center, for a reasonable rate. I'm not talking about 5000 acre solar farms; I'm talking about lights in maybe 8 commercial-gov buildings, a well pump, and water treatment, and maybe 20 amps worth to the closest residences.

Some super dirty, fast numbers, you could provide something like a very limited supply. to roughly 160 homes per acre of panels. Note; I'm not talking US homes, I'm talking about a light bulb or two, some USB charging, and a fan.

My second home had all the typical comforts and still has 120 volt 30amp service… of course gas heat, hot water, cooking and dryer makes it doable…

I managed a triplex with 3 studio units of wartime construction with a single 120 volt 30 amp shared meter… only problem was portable electric heaters but each unit individually gas mattered.

 

[Oaktree]

With out going to far down a rabbit hole; was speaking with an engineer for a large power company about a problem, work involved. He has a single customer, dead end line, feeding an abandoned house, that he has to spend something like $160k to replace the feed too.

Not sure I follow you, why is he maintaining electric service to an abandoned building?

 

[ponytug]

Article from 2019:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-megapack-utility-scale-energy-storage

The Australian megapack deployments are for time shifting solar to make the grid more reliable. They absorb solar power 10-3 and then act as peaker plants to support the grid 4-10pm.

Tesla Megapack 2XL to power new giant 877 MWh Neoen battery project

The Tesla Megapack 2XL is going to power a new giant 877 MWh battery project developed by France’s Neoen in...

electrek.co

(877MWh of capacity)

Tesla Megapack to power new massive record-breaking 1.3 GWh battery system

Tesla Megapack has been selected to power a massive new record-breaking 1,3 GWh battery system from Neoen in Australia. This...

electrek.co

(1,200MWh capacity)

The currently (pun intended) largest version of this peaker battery storage system is on the California coast, not too far from here;

The world’s largest battery storage system just got even larger

The Moss Landing Energy Storage Facility, the world's largest battery storage system, has been expanded to 750 MW/3,000 MWh.

electrek.co

(3,000MWh of capacity)

These systems all help smooth out the difference in energy supply and demand. I suspect that as more renewables come on line, and more energy is used as electricity, there will be other versions of this, e.g. electrically heating brick piles for thermal energy storage (to lower the cost of things like baking and metal working, and simpler versions to store energy at home), and chemically storing the energy, e.g. hydrogen production for use in chemical manufacturing, or fuels, though not necessarily as hydrogen. There are also refrigeration versions as well, where you can freeze large blocks of ice for later use in cooling. A company, Thule energy, makes systems for small businesses, though they used to make a homeowner sized unit. Stanford University built one in the 80s that was so successful that they built a second, much, much larger version to provide heating and cooling for the entire campus and hospital systems.

Central Energy Facility

The Central Energy Facility houses the innovations of Stanford’s Energy System Innovations (SESI): heat recovery technology, thermal storage tanks, thermal energy distribution network, and patented operational optimization software.

sesi.stanford.edu

If you know that energy is going to be 5-10% of the cost from 2-4 than it would be from 4-10pm, it starts to make economic sense to use more energy then.

All the best,

Peter