OP
LD1
Epic Contributor
Even that pic I think is only 4 panels.
Some of the 400-500w panels I have seen are split panels that do actually look like 2
Solar production. Panel ratings/claim vs reality
Some of the 400-500w panels I have seen are split panels that do actually look like 2
ultrarunner
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Just reviewed current PGE electric bill…
Peak from 4 to 9 pm 64 cents kW not including 7.5 percent city tax
Off peak only 54 cents kW
more to come…
Peak from 4 to 9 pm 64 cents kW not including 7.5 percent city tax
Off peak only 54 cents kW
more to come…
newbury
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ultrarunner
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Yep… we are pushed to go all electric with bans on wood heat and restriction on natural gas or LP…
It reads like an episode of the Twilight Zone…
I see too many now replacing gas furnaces for heat pumps and grin ear to ear they now have A/C… until the first summer electricity bill arrives!
Much if the Bay Area has a relatively mild climate but I’m hearing from folks with utility bills pushing as much as a thousand bucks for normal homes with kids doing laundry and cooking, etc.
Several grocery stores have publicly said electric bills are killing them… it’s not like you can turn off the freezers from 4-9 pm every evening…
ponytug
Super Member
That's why many business down here are putting in power pack battery systems- a friend in the solar and battery business says the price arbitrage generally gets a business a 2-3 year payback. I also expect to see more grocery stores to go to ammonia/ CO2 refrigeration systems for the increased efficiency.
For us to go off of propane heat, and not be drawing much electrical power would be a 12-16kW solar system, 50-60kWh of batteries, and a standby generator. That's not a solution that works for the average homeowner both from its cost, the required space needed. Californians in the sunny and warmer parts of the state can do it more easily, but when it's 104F during the day and 85F at night, AC costs are not going to be cheap with today's homes.
I think that California needs more homes that a) are air tight, b) have R-40 or 4-50 walls and R-60 ceilings, c) have roof overhangs that keep the summer sun from shining inside, and d) are fire resistant. The change is not going to be inexpensive. For anyone who has lived where there is real winter, California building practices leave a great deal to be desired, and as a result California housing is very energy inefficient. There are state programs to improve that, but building it right the first time is the best solution, and our building codes are seriously lacking. (in my view...)
All the best,
Peter
newbury
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I think California also needs more people that are willing to live in homes with temps closer to what it is outside. Set thermostats to heat at say 50 degrees F and cool at 82 degrees F.
I used to set the heat in the winter warm enough so we didn't see our breath (wore lots of sweaters), and the cooling in the summer about 82, with LOTS of airflow.
ponytug
Super Member
Actually, lots of folks around here do that. We do. The Central Valley not so much, rather like much of the southeast.I spent time in Tucson, where the heat was pretty incredible to me, but there seemed to be a sub group that did things early in the day and then again late in the day, rather like Spaniards, and hid inside out of the heat and the sun midday. It seemed very sensible to me. It seemed like living with your environment, rather than in spite of it.
All the best,
Peter
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ultrarunner
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My home can’t complain efficiency wise and my 6kW solar array provides all the electricity I used plus I receive a small check each year.
Mom’s 2400 square feet 1959 construction runs between 300 and 360 kWh a month with refrigerator, freezer, electric dryer, range, etc…
It’s the rates that are killing those with A/C the most…
When I tell folks 64 cents every day from 4-9 pm they think that can't be right… add the 7.5 percent city tax and it’s pushing 70 cents when the meter fee added.
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ultrarunner
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Never lived with A/C at moms and only time we had heat was Christmas when the great aunts would come to stay…
I spent time in Tucson, where the heat was pretty incredible to me, but there seemed to be a sub group that did things early in the day and then again late in the day, rather like Spaniards, and hid inside out of the heat and the sun midday. It seemed very sensible to me. It seemed like icing itch your environment, rather than in spite of it.
All the best,
Peter
Oakland has pretty mild temps but more people seem to have low tolerance for much variation these days...
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Grumpycat
Veteran Member
7.5¢/kWh for "excessive" generated power is excellent. Go ahead and overbuild your system.
Around here we get 2.5¢/kWh for any power we put on the grid, limited to the amount we draw from the grid at 11.5¢/kWh. Is better to get 2.5¢ than to throw it away.
Meanwhile my PV system will have batteries because it isn't worth giving the power to TVA.
Around here we get 2.5¢/kWh for any power we put on the grid, limited to the amount we draw from the grid at 11.5¢/kWh. Is better to get 2.5¢ than to throw it away.
Meanwhile my PV system will have batteries because it isn't worth giving the power to TVA.