Solar Electric Project

[hayden]

OK, getting towards the home stretch. Next is to terminate all those wires coming out of the charge controllers. There are 2 60A DC breakers for each controller, for a total of 4 breakers. One disconnects the solar array from the controller, and the other disconnects the controller from the battery.

The first picture shows the 4 breakers and all the wires hooked up.

Then, the batteries. It too a lot of wiggling and pushing to the the cables through the conduit and into place (they are 4/0 THHN with end lugs). In the second picture you can see the negative cable bolted to the negative bus bar. It's the cable on the left. The one on the right goes to the inverter. The bus bar slightly above is the ground bar - not to be confused with the negative bar (visible) or the AC neutral bar (not visible). All are different and isolated in this wiring box. In the main breaker panel, and only in the main breaker panel, the ground and neutral are bonded together. This is all per NEC.

In the last picture you can see the Positive battery cable mounted to the bus plate. The other 4/0 cable in the forground is the inverter + cable.

 

[hayden]

Let there be light!

After checking voltages and checking for shorts, I ducked behind the battery box and touched the final battery cable to the battery. No sparks . Next, I flipped the main breaker for the inverter and presto - on it came. After taking it out of standby, I was able to measure 120V on both sides of the 240V circuit, and 240V across it. All good .

But, when I threw the breaker to apply the house load, the inverter buzzed and shut down. . A little probing revield the one leg of the AC was shorted somewhere. I was luck to find it quickly - on of the cable clamps had pinched too tight and gone through the insulation on the red wire. This is exactly why everything has a safety ground!!! After rerouting the cable, we were in business. With careful throwing of breakers, I can run the house off the old or new inverter.

These last pictures show things getting buttoned up. The next major step is to get the solar arrays assembled and attached, but I'll be taking a break from this for a couple of weeks. The array mounts are still a couple of weeks away from delivery anyway, so there is not much more to do in the mean time. Then I need to get the generator set up, but I'll be waiting on the shop for that. Hopefully, with 3200W of solar, I won't need the generator for a while.....

 

[Bill Barrett]

Very cool Hayden. Did you look at Outback equipment? If you did why did you choose Xantrex? I'm looking at system components, may try some of the new cheaper companies, (yeah yeah I know) lol. Do you have the 208 page AEE solar catalog? I have it on PDF, if you would like it.

 

[hayden]

Very cool Hayden. Did you look at Outback equipment? If you did why did you choose Xantrex? I'm looking at system components, may try some of the new cheaper companies, (yeah yeah I know) lol. Do you have the 208 page AEE solar catalog? I have it on PDF, if you would like it.

Yes, I looked at Outback. If Xantrex hadn't come out with the XW series, I probably would have stayed with my current system and just jacked up the batteries and panels. I don't like to Outback stuff for a couple of reasons. First, is that you need two inverters to get a split phase system, plus a balancing transformer. Second, it's a kludgie system. Too many odds and ends that sort of go together, but not completely. Third, their computer interface is incomplete. You can't program the system or even trigger an equalize. Last, it takes up more space.

The XW stuff really goes together nicely as an integrated system. I came across a couple of rough edges, but I still think it's the best there is out there.

Oh, one other thing. The Outback MX chargers have a fan that has a reputation of failing, and it's a pain to replace. The XW has no fan. I like that.

I'll let you know if I feel differently after using it for a few months or a year, but so far I like it. I won't really be on line for another month or so, and 100% ( gen is missing piece) probably won't happen until the fall.

 

[charlz]

Nice clean installation! Looks very good!

One question, I heard somewhere that the inverters make a fair amount of noise, a hum maybe? Might have been in reference to a grid tie system if that makes any difference. When your system is complete and running off the pv panels will it make any sound or will it be totally quiet?

 

[hayden]

Bill Barrett - I think I came across too harsh on Outback. It's a widely used product with lots of satisfied customers. The whole renewable energy industry is young, and periodically experiences big steps forward in product design and technology. For years, Trace (now Xantrex) was the only game in town. It was a quality product, but had it's limitations and quirks. That's what I've been running.

After Xantrex bought Trace, the product kind of stalled, and Outback emerged as the new leader. Much of that was due to their MX charge controller which does Maximum Power Point Tracking for solar arrays, a technique developed by Blue Sky to operate the panels at the Voltage/Current point that produces max power and do DC/DC conversion to match the battery voltage. Past controllers just forced the panel voltage to match the batteries causing the panels to operate 10-15% less efficiently. They are solid products, but have their own set of quirks.

From what I've seen so far, the Xantrex XW system has really taken the concept of a "system" to the next level. I've got my fingers crossed that it continues to be solid. Typically you don't encounter all the quirks until you've used a product for a while, and although I've read all the material, I've only scratched the surface in actual use.

 

[hayden]

Nice clean installation! Looks very good!

One question, I heard somewhere that the inverters make a fair amount of noise, a hum maybe? Might have been in reference to a grid tie system if that makes any difference. When your system is complete and running off the pv panels will it make any sound or will it be totally quiet?

Yes, they make a variety of noises, and that's one reason I'm moving my power panel to the basement. My current one is in a shallow closet in our entry vestibule. The closet has louvered bi-fold doors which cover things up, but don't provide any sound protection.

First, there's the 60hz hum. It's around us everywhere and you don't really notice until it goes away. On a light load the inverter sounds like a florescent shop light, but with a heavy load it's more like a fridge. All-in-all not too bad.

Worse, though, is when the cooling fan kicks in. For me, that only happens when the generator is running and the thing is putting out 85A charging the batteries, but man what a howl. When it's cranking we have to close the doors to the vestibule it's so loud and annoying. The fan has never come on due to the AC load on the inverter, but I think it would if it were working real hard for a while.

We are really looking forward to getting it out of the living space, and hopefully having a quieter system. The XW charge controllers don't have fans, so they will be reasonably quiet. I'm still not sure about the inverter. Before I bought it I pulled the panels off one (as best I could) to see if I could spot fans, and I couldn't. I also can't find any reference to fans in any of the manuals. I'll know for sure once I get it running at full power, but that won't be until I've got the generator installed and can do a long battery charge cycle.

I don't know for sure about grid tie systems, but I'm doing one later this summer/fall. However, I'd expect them to be consistently noisy when the sun is out because they always operate at the full power produced by the panels. I'm glad you brought this up - now I'll pay attention to it on this next system when we locate the inverter.

 

[Bill Barrett]

Bill Barrett - I think I came across too harsh on Outback. It's a widely used product with lots of satisfied customers. The whole renewable energy industry is young, and periodically experiences big steps forward in product design and technology. For years, Trace (now Xantrex) was the only game in town. It was a quality product, but had it's limitations and quirks. That's what I've been running.

After Xantrex bought Trace, the product kind of stalled, and Outback emerged as the new leader. Much of that was due to their MX charge controller which does Maximum Power Point Tracking for solar arrays, a technique developed by Blue Sky to operate the panels at the Voltage/Current point that produces max power and do DC/DC conversion to match the battery voltage. Past controllers just forced the panel voltage to match the batteries causing the panels to operate 10-15% less efficiently. They are solid products, but have their own set of quirks.

From what I've seen so far, the Xantrex XW system has really taken the concept of a "system" to the next level. I've got my fingers crossed that it continues to be solid. Typically you don't encounter all the quirks until you've used a product for a while, and although I've read all the material, I've only scratched the surface in actual use.

Thanks for the feed back, this is the kind of info I'm looking for!

 

[FLHayman]

Loved reading all the posts. I have an off grid, small system in New Mexico at a vacation place. I put 3 195w panels on the top of a storage room, components inside, golf cart batteries in a vented box. I use the xantrex prosine 2k inverter with no problems, and love the outback MX60 charger. It is amazing how it can come up with useable charging voltage from any hint of light. By the way, you can synch 2 of the prosines together in a second to get 240v.

I used to have a 12v gel cell forklift battery set, but lost a couple of cells........I guess that's why they were cheap and well used. Went to regular golf cart batteries with no regrets. The cost of the batteries was a fraction of the cost of one gel cell. I know, they won't last as long, but they work great, and most useage is during the day, shallow discharge at night. Swamp cooler in the day, especially in the summer. Gas fridge really helps. Have to ration power when using microwave, but otherwise have t.v., internet, water pump,power for compressor, fans, etc. lights are 12v on a separate panel and battery for some sort of backup. It's the only choice other than generator, and it works great! Remember, no Air Conditioning or Refrigerator, Electric dryer, etc. at this level!

 

[tommu56]

Hayden I have a Mx charge controller and a FX inverter and its in our mud room and the only noise I notice is the fan no AM or FM or TV noise.

tommu