Comparison Shuttle shift or hydrostat?? Is the extra costs worth it in a 50hp-ish cab tractor for pto power (brush hogging)

[I Piddle]

Wondering what people’s thoughts are on this. A friend of mine has been trying to figure this question out due to the additional expense ($8k).

I have a 58 HP with shuttle shift. I often wonder if the hydro requires less maintenance. Every time I shift from forward to reverse, I wonder how much stress that puts on the clutch. It is not easy to split one of these big tractors in half to replace clutch. I have a small JD with loader and four wheel drive (basically a garden tractor - subcompact). It has hydro. I like this particularily on hillside work down and up the hill. 8K is a lot, but may want to consider if it will be cheaper or more expensive in the long run to maintain.

 

[big bubba]

seems to me the clutch action required to engage shuttle shift puts no additional stress on the clutch than shifting gears.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

If you need 50 hp at the pto, get a tractor rated for 50 hp at the pto. The attachment you power (in this case, a mower) is going to have NO IDEA what transmission type is dragging it around.

There are plenty of hydro equipped tractors available with 50+ pto rated hp. Ignore the engine hp rating when shopping, just look at the pto hp rating. That's the stat that actually matters. If you want a hydro, get a hydro. If you want a gear or shuttle, get one of those. But anyone claiming you can't make 50 pto hp in a hydro is full of meadow muffins. Same with anyone claiming you can't run one all day in the fields.

I can mow all day in my hydro tractor. I put the A/C on (it's got a cab), turn on some music, and set the cruise control when I want it. Never any issues on flat ground or going up and down hills. When I'm mowing around fence corners, trees, out buildings or obstacles, a hydro is very handy to have. If I get to a spot where I need to change ground speed or back up, I can easily do that while always maintaining full engine rpm for best mowing performance.

 

[flyingace43]

An easy way to solve this is to buy the Yanmar YT347 or YT359 because you have the IHMT tranny which gives you the power of the shuttle shift and the ease of the hydro, this is the only smaller tractor with this tranny that is usually only found in much larger tractors. Hands down the nicest tractor I have owned and I would put this up against any tractor in this HP range. I have the cab and the A/C is great and the cruise control works very well and I have a Yanmar dealer only 30 miles away. Go test drive one if you can you will not be disappointed. Price for the YT347 is around 45K and the YT359 is around 50K for the cab models

 

[mikester]

Test drive each and decide for yourself.

I have an HST now and like it. Some HST systems are gutless and will struggle with hills and towing. Not all HST's are the same.

 

[sandman2234]

I have a HST, but I've been using a M7040 for a few weeks with shuttle shift. I will never buy a shuttle shift after that. It's a great tractor, but the control is just not there for me. Maybe after a few years I'd not even notice, but the HST is such an advantage imo. I work in a lot of tight areas and the shuttle shift is a real pain.

Interesting, because I own an M7040 with a gear transmission and shuttle shift. I also own a JD2555 without the shuttle shift and I wouldn't want to use the JD2555 for regular loader work. I also wouldn't want to have to have the engine running wide open all the time when trying to do close quarter loader work that HST requires. I love the shuttle shift, as it allows me to change direction without touching the gear shift as well as shifting the transmission without touching the clutch if I use the shuttle shift as a clutch.
I think shuttle shift is very much well worth the money it takes to buy it, although I bought mine used.
David from jax

 

[bridge4]

Interesting, because I own an M7040 with a gear transmission and shuttle shift. I also own a JD2555 without the shuttle shift and I wouldn't want to use the JD2555 for regular loader work. I also wouldn't want to have to have the engine running wide open all the time when trying to do close quarter loader work that HST requires. I love the shuttle shift, as it allows me to change direction without touching the gear shift as well as shifting the transmission without touching the clutch if I use the shuttle shift as a clutch.
I think shuttle shift is very much well worth the money it takes to buy it, although I bought mine used.
David from jax

I don't know what you are talking about. I loaded logs into a trailer all week at 1200 rpm and they were frequently heavy enough to almost tip my tractor over. Yeah you need a little more juice, but you don't always need to be wide open. Maybe if you are doing heavy ground engagement work, but again, its more about having the right weight on your tractor than being wide open the whole time.

 

[big bubba]

just keep in mind there's a big difference between hyd shuttle & shuttle shift systems. hyd shuttle usually involves a wet clutch pack, the shuttle shift usually has a single dry clutch plate. apparently the wet clutch pack lasts longer & requires no clutch action to engage shuttle for directional change.

 

[D&D]

I don't know what you are talking about. I loaded logs into a trailer all week at 1200 rpm and they were frequently heavy enough to almost tip my tractor over. Yeah you need a little more juice, but you don't always need to be wide open. Maybe if you are doing heavy ground engagement work, but again, its more about having the right weight on your tractor than being wide open the whole time.

Noise is a fairly common complaint, the second biggest probably being "my tractor won't". Then they want to tell you why, at idle (or barely above) their tractor doesn't perform well.
I have a customer that runs his tractors at a maximum of 1900 rpms (e-pto indicator). Will only make a 4x4 round bale because anything bigger will tip (no counterweight) his little tractor (only uses big tractor to make bales). He prefers small squares to feed his cattle (by hand) so he doesn't waste fuel taking bales out. He also has a JD710 hoe that he runs at 1500 rpm because anything higher wastes fuel and makes too much noise. He always pays in cash so I keep going back.

 

[Smokeydog]

Good there are choices. Depends on intended attachments, tasks and abilities of what works best. Been fun experiencing the evolution the past 50+ years.

 

[bc1]

All I know is I spent an extra 10 grand on my JD 4052R to get a cab. A/C, heat, radio, etc. I'm not spending my older years out in the blowing dirt, grass, or snow whether mowing for hours or pushing snow. I get on clean enough to go to meeting and get off clean enough to go to meeting or wherever.

I wanted around 50 hp. I don't mow at wide open throttle. Usually mowing around 470 to 500 rpm. It has a variable speed pedal for forward and one for reverse. Also has a lever for 3 ranges, A, B, and C with A being low and C being road gear. Usually mow in B and pushing with the loader in A. Have a 6 foot rototiller for the garden in low range. I use the tiller just deep enough to cut weeds and mow/till the corral in B range. Have a place or two in the pasture with heavy weeds where I till them instead of mowing.

10 grand is worth it when thinking about mowing in the blowing dirt into my 70s and hopefully 80s. The younger generations won't do it without a cab. Not one I know drives a convertible car down country roads either which is no different.

All the large operation farmers I know won't spend all day in the field without a cab and neither will their young hired help.

Wife mows the buffalo and fescue grass farmyard with a 54" cub cadet ZTR. Mows it with the hst in half the time of a tractor style mower. But she has to wear goggles and ear plugs and looks like a brown bear when done so into the shower she goes. I bush hog the rest and I'm ready to head to the restaurant when done.

This doesn't answer the question but my 2 cents worth.

 

[jccndakota]

Wondering what people’s thoughts are on this. A friend of mine has been trying to figure this question out due to the additional expense ($8k).

Wondering what people’s thoughts are on this. A friend of mine has been trying to figure this question out due to the additional expense ($8k).

I chose the "PowrReverser" option we bought a new 5075E with 7 foot mower. Our pasture is hilly with trees. I can't imagine going back to mowing it or working the 3/4 mile gravel driveway now with one of our other tractors. With all the stopping and reversing, moving the lever to change direction is a dream. I haven't mowed with one of the older tractors in 7 years.

 

[ericm979]

I also wouldn't want to have to have the engine running wide open all the time when trying to do close quarter loader work that HST requires.

I don't need to run the engine at full rpm to operate my HST Branson.

I find that it's the loader response that determines what rpm I run the engine at when doing loader work, and not the transmission. If I'm not using the loader and working in tight quaters I can let the tractor idle. The linked pedal and throttle will raise the rpms gradually if I push the pedal very far.

I sometimes mow in E-pto gear where 540 rpm on the PTO is 1700 rpm on the engine instead of the usual 2400 rpm. Other than being slower the HST works fine.

 

[ning]

I don't need to run the engine at full rpm to operate my HST Branson.

I find that it's the loader response that determines what rpm I run the engine at when doing loader work, and not the transmission. If I'm not using the loader and working in tight quaters I can let the tractor idle. The linked pedal and throttle will raise the rpms gradually if I push the pedal very far.

I sometimes mow in E-pto gear where 540 rpm on the PTO is 1700 rpm on the engine instead of the usual 2400 rpm. Other than being slower the HST works fine.

Same; I only run wide-open if I'm hogging tough stuff or using the tiller. Lightweight mowing is usually in E, usually do loader & backhoe around 1800 else everything's too slow.

I don't think this has anything to do with HST actually, idk what he's talking about, unless he's thinking that moving the tractor requires full throttle? I only go full throttle going up a steep hill fast.

 

[Walter L]

I’ve had both and shuttle is my favorite I now have an auto shuttle and don’t like it as much as a regular shuttle in time maybe I will get used to it?
I bush hog plow fields haul dirt just work around the farm.

 

[sandman2234]

52hp HST here. I mow odd shaped parcels where I sometimes use reverse to back into a corner or reverse direction... A gear shift would be a PIA

Scootr, M7040 with shuttle shift means I can be going full bore one direction, flip the lever and be going full bore in reverse without touching a gear shifter or the clutch. Works at any speed, any gear, just flip it and you are going the opposite direction at the same speed, instantaneously!
David from jax

 

[Anakist]

I have one of each and prefer the HST. But I have a bush block with logs and stones everywhere that we haven't cleaned up yet. With the HST the speed is immediately adjustable based on what has just happened at the front wheels. If I hit a tree or rock I can stop, lift the slasher, crawl over, drop the slasher, reverse back to the obstacle, and continue very easily. Or if I hit a thicker patch of grass I can just slow the travel speed until I'm through it.

 

[marinohh5]

I have 48.3Hp on my TYM and I do just fine with what I do which is logging, brush cutting and snow removal etc.

Nox Vidmate VLC​