Grapple Should I Get A Grapple

[oosik]

Well - I have a very heavy duty Land Pride grapple ( SGC1560 @ 820# ) on my M6040. It is a FANTASTIC implement. I thin my pine stands almost every spring. This will end up with me cutting, dragging, piling and chipping around 900 small ( less than 6" on the base ) pines.

There is no way my grapple can assist in ANY of this operation. The pine stands are too thick - they look like a hair brush. I can't be selective with the grapple as I can with my small Stihl chain saw. With the tractor and grapple I can't get into the remaining stand and pull out the cut trees.

This entire operation is done by hand - except the chipping.

The tractor plus my Wallenstein BX62S does the final job - chips all the trees that have been piled up.

Even if I could use the grapple - I would not. It's just too slow. AND I do not want to have to chip the roots on the pines - too much dirt and small rocks.

 

[Thomas]

As other said... also the older you get your muscle and bones will thank you purchasing.

 

[oosik]

Yes, Thomas. There is no question of the invaluable use of my grapple. LARGE rocks, chunks of old ancient Ponderosa pines, back dragging to smooth, level & rip. I used the grapple to lift the main structural logs into place when building a "rough cut" lean too.

I use it to move soil. Lower horizontally onto the ground with the jaws wide open. Close the jaws and rip out a large patch of soil - move it to wherever. When finished - back drag with the top jaw to smooth out the area.

I had the grapple installed five years ago and have never put the bucket back on the FEL.

 

[ericm979]

To dig a tree out you need to get one of the tines under the tree. It should be a center tine not one on the end of the grapple so you don't twist the loader frame. The loader is not really made for this so you need to be careful. At least on my tractor it is not easy to see the center tines. Lining one up exactly right will be frustratingly difficult.

If your prime goal of a grapple is to pry trees out of the ground, I suggest a Piranha tooth bar. It works like the edge of the bucket only it's much better at grabbing stems. You don't need to see exactly where it's hitting the trunk like you would with a grapple.

But a bucket with or without tooth bar is not much use for pulling up brush. You can push brush and with the Piranha tooth bar either pull it up or cut it better than a plain bucket. My problem is that I need to get in and pull out brush. Our land is steep and the brush is thick; I can usually only get to it from one side. If you push and push you just make a big pile that you can't push any more.

 

[tractorshopper]

My best method for getting out 3-4" trees is to use the tooth bar on my bucket and get under the root of the small tree, then curl the bucket to kind pop it out. Sometimes have to reposition to get a better angle depending on which way the main root is going. I try to use the teeth toward the middle of the bucket to keep from rolling the tractor. Sometimes you need to run in and out some with finesse also to get it loose enough. Maybe if you push about 3-4' up on the trunk some first will loosen the ground around the root and give you an indication of which way it is going.

I have also used my grapple for this, but have also bent tines on my grapple. I prefer the tooth bar on my bucket for getting the trees up, then the grapple for cleanup. Definitely grapple for the bushes. They are easier. I basically come in from above and clamp the grapple around the entire bush, then push/pull forward/reverse until the bush gives.

The B may not be the correct size tractor for this work, but you'll be surprised with what you can do with finesse and persistence. I get some 3-4" stuff up with my BX. My L would get 5-6" stuff up with enough work.

Not everything of course. Pines are very easy. Sweet gums are not and I usually tend to fail with them if they are too big. Some trees and brush are in between.

One point to make, I have the LP grapple for mine and it is matched for weight. I like the EA design better, but you must think about the weight of the grapple. The more it weighs by itself, the less you can lift with it as it is part of the equation of lift on your loader. EA makes different versions with different weights. As does LP. You can match to your tractor. They should be able to give you their recommendation for your tractor so you get the most satisfaction. I would buy the EA if I hadn't wrapped my LP into the original tractor purchase. I like their serrating for grip and also really like the reinforcement on the lower tines out towards the ends. Keeps you from bending them up as much as I have bent mine. Just better design in my opinion. Like I said, match to your tractor based on width and weight and you'll be happy. My grapple is by far my favorite and most useful attachment.

 

[jeff9366]

I realize my tractor is on the small end and limited, but I was only planning to uproot what I am already doing with the FEL (I think I am learning the lingo).

I did watch some other videos after posting this and found one of the other uses of a grapple was to put the tines down and push forward raking all of the sod/roots off of the top. I was planning to use the box scraper to do this, but the grapple looked like it did a better job and only removed the sod leaving most of the top soil intact.

Tractors are designed to PULL. In most instances you should perform heavy work from the Three Point Hitch with load on the beefy rear axle and big rear tires.

Loaders are designed to LIFT. You can push a Loader gingerly but it is not too difficult to bend any of the many pieces out there in front. It is pretty easy to rollover a tractor when moving FEL loads carried too high.

 

[jblac197]

I was clearing a little more land, about 5 acres and finally just decided to hire a guy with a huge skidsteer and high flow brush cutter. He diced through trees 5-8 inches thick like butter. I was doing 1 tree at a time like you are with the bucket, it worked but was very time consuming. This guy cleared in 4 hours what was going to take me weeks. But the grapple was very handy for cleaning up after he was done, made huge burn piles. And now all I do is bush hog it once few times a year to keep brush down.

 

[K5lwq]

I agree with some of what Jeff said. However, if you are pulling a heavy load use the draw bar not the 3 pt hitch. I have seen several of our 200+ HP tractors from the farm sitting on their back, with all fours clear the ground, pulling from 3 pt. We lost one of our best hands this way and I was the one that found him. Very sad day.

I had no issue uprooting those trees with my grapple, but I am cautious and understand limits to remain safe. I have been using tractors for 45 plus years and sometimes forget just because it is no issue for me does not mean it won't be an issue for someone else.

Bottom line is if you want a grapple and can afford to buy one, go for it. No matter what you decide, be safe and happy tractoring! :thumbsup:

 

[Buxus]

1) Your Kubota B2301 HST weighs about 1,600 pounds bare tractor.

My Kubota L3560 HST/PLUS weights about 3,700 pounds bare tractor. My soil is sandy loam.

My L3560 could NOT pull 3" nor 4" diameter trees from the ground with a chain to the the rear drawbar nor lift trees from the soil with 1,700 pound lift capacity FEL, with or without a grapple. The problem is the front engine in the tractor, which distributes half the weight to the front end when an FEL is installed. When you pull on stumps with the FEL, the rear wheels will rise from the ground.

Removing numerous 3" and 4" trees is work for a 6,000 pound bare weight tractor or, better, a tracked excavator or bulldozer.

If you must remove 3" to 4" trees with your B2301 get a ripping claw to replace the bucket on your Backhoe during tree removal.
VIDEOS (2): Kubota L251 backhoe root ripper trench bucket bxpanded quick attach - YouTube
Ripper Vs. Toothbar. Which works best for THIS Project? - YouTube

2) For moving trees SSQA adjustable-width Pallet Forks will work as well as a grapple. Simpler, cheaper; no front remote hydraulic connection necessary. 32", 34" or 38" Pallet Forks will match the lift capacity of your B2301 FEL better than longer forks.
PHOTOS
QUALITY VENDER: everything attachments videos pallet forks - YouTube


3) If you pull vines on a fence the fence usually comes out of the ground before the vines. Spray the vines with Gordon's Barrier, Crossbow or Crossroad, Rural King's private labels formulation of Crossbow.

I agree with everything Jeff says in his post.

Use a chainsaw to cut trees, use pallet forks to move them, and use herbicide for vines.

Pallet forks are cheaper, no maintenance, and will last forever. I use mine more than I use the bucket.

 

[jjp8182]

Looks like you already have a very good assortment of implements to take on this task - to which a grapple and/or pallet fork could be useful additions, and there's already been a fair amount of good advice provided so I'll attempt to keep my thoughts short, and content rich.

Pallet forks work well for trees and large pieces of wood. However, they don't work as well as a grapple when it comes to lots of smaller pieces, or things where it's harder to locate the balance point (e.g. shrubs with a root ball attached that's still shedding dirt). I started with pallet forks and quickly bought a grapple because of the additional control it has over objects being carried. So I'd say being able to use equipment to carry things in a controlled manner always beats moving things by hand. ....whereas I'm not so sure I'd say that's always the case when it comes to using equipment to move things that aren't/can't be controlled by the equipment.

When it comes to root removal both a grapple and a box blade have their use. The grapple can rake through the ground, but the front wheels may come off the ground due to how tractor loader arms are attached to the tractor.... much like when digging with a tractor. However a box blade plays to a tractor's strengths in that at the more it loads up the more it drives the rear wheels into the ground which increases traction. Personally I prefer to use a box blade to build windrows of roots, and use the grapple to pickup the windrow.

Pushing over trees can be done, though it's not risk free and does requires attention to detail, along with using leverage for the best results. Use the trunk as a lever to find where the roots are, and then push the tree toward the longest roots. For the sake of safety you'll want to avoid snapping the trunk -- especially if your front wheels end up off the ground (as has already been noted tractor loaders aren't really optimized for pushing/digging, and weird/undesirable things can happen when loaded up too much). Once the tree is over use the root ball like a "wheel" with the trunk as the "axle" to break/remove the remaining roots. Using an approach like that can permit removal of trees larger than the use of shear brute force alone. With proper techniques the size of the tree matters less than the type of tree, it's root structure, and the soil type (along with it's moisture content).

Of course, since you have a backhoe that can also help locate/break roots as backhoes on tractors will typically be able to generate higher break out forces (from what I've seen anyway) along with having narrower buckets to concentrate that force in a smaller area.

So yes, I'd say it's very feasible it's just a case of being patient, paying attention to what is happening when you're working, and not using speed/brute force (e.g. ramming, jerking, etc) to force things to happen.

In all reality that adage of "slow is smooth smooth is fast" is also very applicable to operating heavy machinery.

Just my :2cents: ...which admittedly may not be worth even that much.