SCUT - Blue, Orange, or Green?

[TacoT96]

Hey, TBN Newbie here, looking for a little input. I grew up on a farm, so I'm not really new to tractors, but that was a few years back and it's been a while since I've used one a lot. My wife & I just purchased our first house; it's in a rural setting, so I'm looking forward to our first tractor purchase.

First, a little on the yard and my requirements. Yard size is 3 1/2 acres, mostly flat with a few slopes. Roughly 2 1/2 acres of mowing; 2 acres on yard plus 1/2 acre roadside ditches (steep). Tilling requirements: 3/4 acre garden, plus a few tree lines; around 1 acre total. The lawn & grass area have a few trees as well, but not too many/too closely spaced for a 60 mower deck. In winter, 150 ft drive will require snow blowing. Add on some FEL work and that pretty much sums it up for now.

What I really want is something that works well for mowing the front lawn, plus handle the other chores as well. I've done a little research, and it looks like a SCUT would be the best overall fit. (I've used by pop's Kubota BX2350 for mowing [60"mmm, worked superb] & tilling [60" Farm King, a little tough] but this is not a long-term solution.) Any recommendations on this?

I "test drove" a Kioti CK20HST on a dealer's lot, seemed a little large for the mowing (especially thinking of front lawn), but excellent for the other projects. The JD 2305, NH TZ25, and Kubota BX2350 I drove were perfect for the mowing, and all seemed capable of handling a little tilling, FEL work, and snow blowing. I'm sure some of you have a lot of seat time running these machines, doing what I want to do, so I'm looking forward to hearing your recommendations.

I think all the SCUTs I've looked at are good quality. If any of you think of features you like/don't like, let me know. I'm listing a few of what I've observed, none of which would make me buy or not buy a particular brand. Chime in if you have solutions or suggestions.

The BX2350's seat is not the most comfortable (it is bearable; I did 5 hour on it in one day), plus the abrupt slowing when getting off the reverse pedal is annoying. I like the large operator platform and the treadle style hydrostatic (minus the jerky reverse). The joystick is at the right place for me and it stays on when removing the loader, although I'll consider rear remotes as well (FEL & hydraulic top link combination).

The JD 2305 was the most cramped for me (6'6" 220#), my knee was continually knocking the FEL valve. I like the dual hydraulic pump feature for power steering and remotes, though.

The TZ25 is alright, but the loader only has 49" of dumping clearance (my pickup truck's box side measures 51" high). Also, 1 rear remote is $1000 vs. $2XX - $4XX for 2 on the JD or Kubota. On the other hand, the sensitrak is awesome.

So, what do you all say? Is price the main deciding factor? Or is the only deciding factor which dealer I get best service from? (I'll pretend to be color blind, at least until I've made my purchase. )

 

[crabjoe]

1st, let me say I don't own anything but am currently shopping like you.

I've looked at the 3 you mentioned too. From those, I like the Bota the best. And just like you, I hate the reverse on the Bota. The dealer told me eventually you learn to control it. I was thinking, "how many times do I have to suffer a whip lash before I figuer it out?"

I didn't like the NH at all. The FEL lift height was way to low and I hat the joystick. The JD was nice, but the stats on paper didn't look as good as the Bota, plus it seemed bigger. Basically, I felt the Deere should have had better numbers then the Bota.

If I had to pick from those 3, I'd go Bota. But I'm still looking. I'm planning to go look at a TYM 233 and the Kioti CK20S this Saturday. From what I've read and been told, the TYM runs/feels like a SCUT, but has stats like a big Compact. The Kioti has good stats to, but I'm told it's not refined. Basically it's more of a tractor.

Good luck with your search and I'll keep my eye on this thread because I need a small tractor with the heart of Superman, and love to read what others feel is best and why.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Those models all sound reasonable. The Kubota seems to be the most popular followed by the Deere, but that isn't necessarily a reflection of what you should choose. Dealer quality is very important.

IMHO, for the tasks you list you may want to consider one of the articulated frame tractor/mower types of equipment. Take a look at Power-Trac, Ven-Trac, and Steiner tractors (three unrelated companies, but somewhat similar products). I think they might make short work of your tasks and have some advantages. You didn't list any task that requires a 3pt hitch or a conventional tractor, necessarily.

 

[podagrower]

My 2 cents.
If the fel on the NH won't put a load into your truck, that could be a serious handicap, I load from the back of my truck, but it is usually crap on pallets using my forks.
I love the slogan "nothing runs like a deere", but hate that it is so hard to get a deere engine. It seemed like in the class I was looking at (30-40 horse compact) deere did not offer as much for the money.
That leaves orange, with whom I have no experience.

Dealer service is at least as important as machine functunality. Maybe lurk around the service department and talk to a customer or three. The dealer can't please everyone all the time, but if every customer you talk to hates the dealer, you probably will too.

This is only my opinion, and your results may vary.

 

[DavesTractor]

The Mahindra 1815HST has a lot of room in the operators area, lifts 915 lbs in the bucket and is built in Japan. They have a 52" mid-mower available. If you have a close Mahindra dealer, you should take a look.

 

[TacoT96]

...I didn't like the NH at all. The FEL lift height was way to low and I hat the joystick....

One NH dealer told me he recommends the TZ25 with a Woods LS72 FEL... More lift height (between JD 2305 & BX2350), with similar lifting capabilities. I tried one and was favorably impressed. Price was $3200 CAD, I think.

 

[asylum575]

I've been looking as you are for a couple of months now and have looked at the same models. The Kioti is the best for the chores. The backhoe was the best feel, good hydraulics and 180 degree swing. The mmm on the kioti would be an all day project to get the BH subframe off and the mower on. A rear mower would seem a better fit. The BX series seems like the best value. I've been looking at them as TLBs. The BX24 seems to be made to target the 1-4 acre properties. The TZ was nice ergonomically, but the lack of a NH backhoe had me wary of the woods BH on it. Deere is a good machine, I just don't know why that green paint is so expensive. You didn't mention the Massey GC 2300/2310. Priced closer to the Kubota. The Bota I think is the best value and are very reliable.
If it comes down to price, it's Bota
If it comes down to value, choose bota or kioti
if it comes down to color, ask your wife

Ed

 

[TacoT96]

...IMHO, for the tasks you list you may want to consider one of the articulated frame tractor/mower types of equipment. Take a look at Power-Trac, Ven-Trac, and Steiner tractors (three unrelated companies, but somewhat similar products). I think they might make short work of your tasks and have some advantages. You didn't list any task that requires a 3pt hitch or a conventional tractor, necessarily....

I was envisioning a conventional tractor, but if there are other options, keep them coming....

For FEL capacity, I need something that has 51"+ dumping clearance (and around 30" of reach @ dumping height), as I need to clear my pickup truck's box side. Lifting capacity (500mm forward) of around 500# would be nice, too.

A diesel engine is pretty much a necessity. Also, future plans (read: dreams) include a box blade, and a backhoe, likely both home-built.

Any recommendations on what make/model of articulated frame tractor/mower would cover this?

 

[TacoT96]

The Mahindra 1815HST has a lot of room in the operators area, lifts 915 lbs in the bucket and is built in Japan. They have a 52" mid-mower available. If you have a close Mahindra dealer, you should take a look.

I always thought the were Indian or Chinese built, but I'll look into this.

Oh, BTW, I think I looked into dealers earlier, and the closest was half a day's drive.... Maybe a little too far?

 

[crabjoe]

if it comes down to color, ask your wife
Ed

That's going to depend on the wife. Mine wants a tractor based on name recognition which is what she grew up with (grew up on a cattle/horse ranch and other family members are farmers). That means Deere or Massey. She also wants BIG with lots of weight. And her compromise on weight is that she wants something 2000lb+. I think only the Kioti is over that weight in a compact.

Me, I think I'm more logical being we only have one acre. I want small with the most FEL power as possible because I have to move way to much dirt.

Then again, if I just go with what she wants, I won't have to hear how I made a mistake, blah, blah, blah. I'll just have to figure out how to store it then listen to my neighbors make jokes about me owning a farm tractor in a wanna be yuppie neighborhood.

 

[TacoT96]

...The mmm on the kioti would be an all day project to get the BH subframe off and the mower on. A rear mower would seem a better fit....You didn't mention the Massey GC 2300/2310....
If it comes down to price, it's Bota
If it comes down to value, choose bota or kioti
if it comes down to color, ask your wife...

I've used both mmm and rear mower, personal preference is the mmm.

I briefly looked into the Massey, but the dealer treated me like he didn't care to sell anything (he deals Kubota, too, but I've got 2 other options for Kubota), so I hardly considered Massey after that.

Like the last line, lol.

 

[Egon]

Get the job prorities in order and pick a tractor on that basis.

For loading into a P/U a ramp may help get the required height.

 

[MacTractor]

It appears I am in the same boat as you. I am looking at all of the above mentioned. I have driven the BX24 and the GC2310 so far. I am going to look at them all. The crappy part here in Canada is the complete ingorance of the dealer and manufacuturers of the situation of the almost parity of the US and CA dollar. I priced out the BX24 here and they want $20,800 plus tax when I can buy it with a short trip to the US for around $15,000 and only have to pay the GST. I would lose the warranty (Which again, I think is rediculous) but $5800.00 would buy a ton of repairs.

Have you thought about going south?

Cheers,

I've used both mmm and rear mower, personal preference is the mmm.

I briefly looked into the Massey, but the dealer treated me like he didn't care to sell anything (he deals Kubota, too, but I've got 2 other options for Kubota), so I hardly considered Massey after that.

Like the last line, lol.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I was envisioning a conventional tractor, but if there are other options, keep them coming....

For FEL capacity, I need something that has 51"+ dumping clearance (and around 30" of reach @ dumping height), as I need to clear my pickup truck's box side. Lifting capacity (500mm forward) of around 500# would be nice, too.

A diesel engine is pretty much a necessity. Also, future plans (read: dreams) include a box blade, and a backhoe, likely both home-built.

Any recommendations on what make/model of articulated frame tractor/mower would cover this?

I don't own any of them so it's all what I've read. Power-Trac gives you several size options and the option of a backhoe (though it isn't clear to me whether you can run a mower on the models that have a backhoe). I don't think a backhoe is available on Ven-Trac or Steiner models. One of the Steiner models has a 3pt hitch giving you all conventional implements that don't require a PTO shaft input. Box scrapers are available for the PT and VT to front mount, and of course could rear mount on the Steiner with a 3pt. All PT models effectively have a FEL built in and lift height is 5' or more on most of them (including all diesel models); for the other two brands, one model from each has a FEL option, lift height on each one is around 5' I think.

 

[VABlue]

Don't put too much stock in the spec numbers between any of these machines - they are all going to lift a full bucket load of whatever you scoop up. And they will all do it at relatively the same speed. Any spec differences will be virtually unnoticeable when you're driving around the yard. They all mow equally as well, and the MM decks all work pretty much the same. The JD 2305 FEL is 55.5" high when fully raised and dumped, so it will clear your pickup side easily. I suspect the Kubota will do the same?

This is the same decision I had to make (along with countless others). Do yourself a favor and don't get caught up with marketing brochure spec numbers and pictures. Go with the machine that you feel most comfortable driving around (sounds like Kubota fits you best), has the best price, and a good dealer. If you find something that meets all three criteria, stop looking and buy. Otherwise, balance them out and go with the best overall deal. Good luck and let us know what you get...

 

[TacoT96]

Get the job prorities in order and pick a tractor on that basis....

#1 Mowing
#2 - #4 are split: Rotary tilling, FEL jobs, Snow Blowing (3-point blower on conventional tractor not a problem)
#5 & on down to be determined.

Since some of you like to help spend other people's money when buying tractors, I thought I'd pick up on that.

 

[TacoT96]

...with a short trip to the US...and only have to pay the GST. I would lose the warranty (Which again, I think is rediculous) but $5800.00 would buy a ton of repairs.

Have you thought about going south?...

I've given it a little thought, but have not really dug into it.

Some positives... chime in if there are others...
Currency/Price advantage (exchange around par today)
GST only?

What are the negatives?
No warranty?
Freight costs?
Brokerage? Duty (how much, if any)?
Anything else?

 

[TacoT96]

I don't own any of them so it's all what I've read. Power-Trac gives you several size options and the option of a backhoe (though it isn't clear to me whether you can run a mower on the models that have a backhoe). I don't think a backhoe is available on Ven-Trac or Steiner models. One of the Steiner models has a 3pt hitch giving you all conventional implements that don't require a PTO shaft input. Box scrapers are available for the PT and VT to front mount, and of course could rear mount on the Steiner with a 3pt. All PT models effectively have a FEL built in and lift height is 5' or more on most of them (including all diesel models); for the other two brands, one model from each has a FEL option, lift height on each one is around 5' I think.

I'd like to do the rotary tilling without driving over freshly tilled soil. I may not have searched enough, but I have not found a compact articulated tractor with these features.

If I build my BH, I could adapt it to most any style of tractor, so that's not an issue.

I need FEL lift of round 6' (measured to pin) to get dumping clearance of 51"+. Combine this with 500# lift and diesel engine, and it looks like the articulated tractor w/attachments to fit my needs will be considerably higher priced than the SCUTs, and out of my budget... Having said that, if you find any that's comparable, let me know.

Thanks for bringing these tractors to my attention, I like to cover all bases before I purchase.

 

[TacoT96]

Don't put too much stock in the spec numbers between any of these machines - they are all going to lift a full bucket load of whatever you scoop up. And they will all do it at relatively the same speed. Any spec differences will be virtually unnoticeable when you're driving around the yard. They all mow equally as well, and the MM decks all work pretty much the same. The JD 2305 FEL is 55.5" high when fully raised and dumped, so it will clear your pickup side easily. I suspect the Kubota will do the same?

This is the same decision I had to make (along with countless others). Do yourself a favor and don't get caught up with marketing brochure spec numbers and pictures. Go with the machine that you feel most comfortable driving around (sounds like Kubota fits you best), has the best price, and a good dealer. If you find something that meets all three criteria, stop looking and buy. Otherwise, balance them out and go with the best overall deal. Good luck and let us know what you get...

Thanks, I'll work on it...
BTW, what was your deciding factor(s) to go with the tractor you did?

 

[Z-Michigan]

I'd like to do the rotary tilling without driving over freshly tilled soil. I may not have searched enough, but I have not found a compact articulated tractor with these features.

I need FEL lift of round 6' (measured to pin) to get dumping clearance of 51"+. Combine this with 500# lift and diesel engine, and it looks like the articulated tractor w/attachments to fit my needs will be considerably higher priced than the SCUTs, and out of my budget... Having said that, if you find any that's comparable, let me know.

I think you're correct on the price for the FEL height and diesel engine you want. On PT that would get up to $16k minimum to get a diesel. I don't know price ranges for VenTrac or Steiner tractors, but I'm guessing they aren't cheaper than PT for comparable features.

Only comment is that with front-mounted tillers you simply drive in reverse while tilling, so you don't drive over the tilled soil. This is also typical of skidsteer tillers or similar implements.

Sounds like a SCUT is the way to go for you.