Scary Experience Last Night! long post

[JCS_in_KY]

I have a tractor but no backhoe so we occasionaly rent one when we need to do trenching, etc. I rented a Kubota L35 for the weekend. To be honest it was really rough and I probably shouldn't have taken it but there's nothing else available in this area that's in any better shape. It's got about 2400 hours on it, hard hours from the looks of it. It appears to have been rolled a time or two, the knobs are broken off of the throttle and some of the other levers. The parking brake doesn't work and the seat belt has been removed. I know I shouldn't have used it with the missing belt because I believe in always wearing them but unfortunately it's common practice with rentals in this area to remove the belts, disable seat kill switches, etc. I trenched with it for a few hours, it went ok but slow due to so much play in the backhoe due to worn pins and bushings. Anyway I had backed up to a new area to start trenching, the ground I was on had a very gradual slope away from the area where I was working (towards the front of the tractor). Prior to trenching I made sure the tractor was parked and the front end supported by the bucket, especially since the parking brake didn't work. I went to the back of the tractor, rotated the seat around and dug the few feet of trench I needed in that area. When I was done trenching I raised the stabilizers and got ready to get off the tractor so I could drive it to a new location. As soon as started to get up the seat came apart and seperated from the mount! This made me fall backwards towards the front of the tractor. In the process of trying to stop the fall my left hand landed on the FEL joystick and moved it enough to lift the bucket off of the ground. The tractor begin rolling forward ever so slowly. As I mentioned earlier it was on a very gradual slope but in the direction it was heading in the ground being to drop off more rapidly not far from where I was. The tractor begin picking up speed fairly quickly as I was still trying to pull myself up. I got up and could see the tractor was heading toward an area where the ground was so uneven I was afraid it would roll. Keep in mind I was inside a ROPS/FOPS but had no way to restrain myself without the belt and seat. I decided I'd better jump off before it hit that area. I climbed out on the step you use to get up to the backhoe operating area. I knew I had to get out to the side so I wouldn't hit the hoe when I jumped. I threw myself to the side and landed in the grass. My back is really sore but I think I'm ok. My wife is a RN and checked me over. Anyway the tractor contined on for about 200'. It never rolled but came close it briefly went up on two wheels then came down, hit a couple of small trees and came to a sudden stop when it hit a larger tree. I was laying in the grass watching all of this happen. The whole event couldn't have taken more than several seconds from the time the seat let go until the tractor stopped but it seemed like it took forever. Upon inspection of the seat mount it appears that some of the parts that secure the seat were damaged and some were missing. The seat also is not a Kubota seat and appears to have been modified to work on that tractor. Looking back I wonder if jumping off was the right decision considering the danger of getting hit by the backhoe and or being hurt from the fall. If I'd have been able to be fastened in I wouldn't have even thought about jumping but with the danger of rolling over it seemed like the only option. I always use the belt on my tractor and I'll never rent anything again from a company that rents equipment out with safety equipment missing or not working. John

 

[Superduper]

I'm glad you are OK but I am speechless that a rental company could release such a tractor with all the safety defeat issues with it, not to mention the worn condition. Surely the few dollars to be made from the rental can't possibly justify the HUGE liability that is sure to follow that machine around.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'm glad you came through this very scary incident with no injuries.
Next time you rent a unit, I'm sure you'll check all safety features and not accept a machine that doesn't measure up.

I am totally amazed the rental company would even keep such a machine on their lot! The liability they face is horrendous.
Did you explain all of this to the manager of the rental company? If it's a national chain, I think I'd take it to the corporate HQ for action. You could save someone else's life by doing so.

 

[Egon]

Seeing as you are Okay jumping was the proper option. Actually what else could you do?

Good to hear no serious injuries.

Did you pay the rental fee?

 

[bjcsc]

Seeing as you are Okay jumping was the proper option. Actually what else could you do??

Drag the hoe...

 

[JCS_in_KY]

Thinking about it seems like dragging the hoe might have been a good option but it was gathering speed so quickly and heading for the uneven ground that I'm afraid there wasn't time and I wasn't sure what effect it might have on the tractor if the hoe happened to come down just as the tractor hit a very uneven area. If I'd have been fastened into a seat I'd have tried that for sure.

I haven't been able to talk to the rental company yet. There is no way to contact them until tomorrow morning. I'm going to have to have them come pick it up. I'm really sore today and I'm in no shape to be trying to load it and chain it down on my trailer.

 

[frank_f15]

VEY GLAD YOU ARE OK!!! but i see 2 issues here #1 rental co, should never rent out such a poorly maintained unit#2 you should never had rented it when you saw how bad it was, this of course is just MHO and do not intend any insults.

 

[patrick_g]

If you pay a cent you are even dumber than I am. They should count themselves lucky to not be paying for a medical exam, treatment, a funeral, or responding to a wrongful death filing from your grieving widow's legal team.

There is an implied suitability/fitness issue. If someone rents a piece of equipment it is supposed to do what it is supposed to do. If you don't go outside the bounds of reasonableness you have the right to expect the equipment to not fall apart and risk your life.

On the other side of the coin...You noticed there was no seatbelt and accepted the use of the machine making you partly responsible at least but of course you couldn't anticipate the seat falling off and that falls on their side of the fence.

Hopefully we all learned something from this.

Pat

 

[JCS_in_KY]

I checked my bank account online and they've already charged me for the rental ($206.50) so I've got to talk to them about this tomorrow morning and try to get them to reverse charges. If not I might be able to dispute it but I'm not sure if I can since it was a Visa Bank of America debit card and not a straight credit card.

I just came in from going out to look at the L35 again and I see what the problem is with the seat. It's got a lever you lift up on the side to adjust the seat position. When you lower the lever down it locks the seat on the tracks but the mechanism is so worn that it comes loose on it's own and alows the seat to slide right off the mount. Also the seat appears to be a replacement and it looks like they cut part of the mount off when they modified it for the new seat.

When I was out there I wiped the grease off one of the stickers on it that lists the responsibility of the equipment rental and the renter. One thing they list is that the renter is responsible for supplying their own seat belts! I don't think putting that sticker on takes away their liability for removing factory supplied safety equipment.

To the poster or posters that mentioned me being partially responsible because I used it without a seat belt I understand what you are saying. I never should have done it but unfortunately I did only because you can't rent anything better in this area and it's hard to hire people to do the work so I took the chance. Not that it makes it right to take a chance like that but I sure never would have done it if I knew this was going to happen.

I've got lots of work to finish up now on this water line project but the fall last night is probably going to take me down for a few days at least. I may go to the doctor tomorrow morning and see if he wants to take an x-ray just to be on the safe side but I think I'm ok, just really sore. At this rate I should have driven another 75 miles or so to rent a better backhoe or start saving up some money to buy a backhoe for my Massey 1533. John

 

[JCS_in_KY]

I just posted in the Kubota section about some specific questions about factory installed safety devices on the L35. Maybe if any of you happen to be familiar with them you can help me out. Here's a link the post http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1416844#post1416844

Also some of you asked earlier if this was a national company that I rented from, no it's not. It's a company that has two or three locations in KY. I'm going to talk to them about the problems first thing in the morning. If they choose to keep renting it in this condition I'll be sure and post here so everyone knows to stay away from them and maybe it will help keep someone from getting hurt.

John

 

[Egon]

You have the machine. No refund no return!

 

[JCS_in_KY]

Last night I got a call from the manager of the rental company. I'd left a message for them on voice mail earlier in the day. He had a terrible attitude about the situation and he had no concern for me, just that their backhoe was ok. He wanted to get into an argument about the seat belt because he said that it's not important to have on the tractor. He also told me the seat was in good condition last week when he saw it and if there was a problem I must have damaged it.

This morning they sent their mechanic down to pick it up, he just left. I showed him what the seat does and he said "yes this one is tricky to use". He then went onto explain that because the seat mechanism is broken on it you have to lift the seat up and use a hammer to knock part of the mechanism into place so the seat locks down! He sees no problem with this and I called the manager back and he doesn't see a problem with it either. The mechanic told me how lucky I was to not be hurt and that I shouldn't have jumped off because the "roll cage" would protect me. I told him that's true it would have and I'd have never dreamed of jumping off IF the backhoe had a seat that work correctly and the factory installed seat belt to hold me in place.

The company I rented from is Green River Rentals. They have a location in Bowling Green Kentucky and one in Glasgow. If any of you are in this area and needing to rent equipment it's a good place to stay away from!

My back is worse today so I've going to the doctor this afternoon to get it checked out just to be safe.

John

 

[johnnylight]

Call a Lawyer today!!

document everything --can you get pictures of the seat?

 

[JCS_in_KY]

I took lots of pictures last night and documented everything in detail! A lawyer has been called but they are waiting to hear what my doctor has to say today.

 

[dfkrug]

JCS:

Glad you are OK. I am sure you learned some things from this experience.
No one on TBN needs to beat you up about it.

We had a rental company around here with very poorly-maintained equipment.
I am as guilty as the next guy for renting some things from them cuz they
were the cheapest. They are now out of business. Good.

I have rented a lot of equipment over the years, from trailers and compactors,
to excavators. I have bought and rebuilt numerous rental tractors.

The biggest point I want to make here is I HAVE rented equipment in the past
that I thought was marginal, from a safety standpoint. Trailers in my case.
Each time, I felt that I did not have other better choices. I did not have
problems, but I vowed not to do it again. Now I don't rent any trailers....I
bought my own. No more non-op brakes or bald tires.

 

[JCS_in_KY]

dfkurg, What you say is true. Sometimes the real companies have you over a barrel. You know renting the poorly maintained equipment isn't the right thing to do but you end up doing it because you don't have any other options. I used to rent trailers occasionally and had the same problems you did. That's the main reason I ended up purchasing a couple of trailers. It's nice to have one that you know the history of and you know it's taken care of because you are the one that does that work on it and the one that uses it. I used to rent compactors and things of that nature and also ended up purchasing my own. The only piece of equipment I don't have that I do need to use a few times a year at least is a backhoe and I've wanted to purchase one but haven't yet because of the cost. After this experience if I had the money to do it now I'd go out and order one today.

While I was typing this I heard back from the rental place again after they "checked the rental in". They told me as far as they are concerned there's nothing wrong with the backhoe. They acknowledged that the seat probably doesn't work right but they said no one else has a problem with it so there's no need to fix anything. He also let me know that as far as they are concerned my problem is taken care of because they will not be renting to me again. Not that I'd even consider renting from them again anyway. I'll do my best to get the word out to others about the quality of their equipment. I just hope that no one else gets hurt using it because next time it might be more serious or even result in a death and I'd sure hate to see that happen.
John

 

[dfkrug]

JCS:

One more thing about that L35.... That is a gear (GST) tractor and you said
the parking brake was non-op. That is a huge safety problem, one they
have decided not to fix.

 

[patrick_g]

John, We all take chances, we may just have a different threshold where we draw the line.

I'm sure you wouldn't play Russian Roulette with a 6 shooter. How about a 100 shooter? No? How about a 1000 shooter? How about a million shooter. At some point, especially if there is a perception of some sort of gain or benefit (reward), we will deem the risk acceptable, considering the reward, or we will deem it insignificant and ignore it. We all have our own criteria, sometimes adjusted by our emotional state.

Of course if you knew you were definitely going to blow your brains out you wouldn't play Russian roulette at all even with a zillion shooter, just like if you knew the seat would fall off the rental equipment and you'd risk serious injury or worse, you'd probably not do it.

The trick is to recognize situations that are just not good enough and not renegotiate your limits based on emotional state, convenience, and such. If it isn't safe and provident when you are not in a hurry it still isn't safe or provident just because you are.

There is a deadly disease among pilots. It is called get-home-itis. I just have to get home because it would be inconvenient to not make it, someone would think I am a wimp, or I will have to pay for another days airplane rental or ... These people often die and take someone with them. JFK junior knowingly pressed on into conditions for which he was not qualified, probably for one or more of the above stated excuses and all souls on board were lost.

There is a saying among pilots:

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots BUT...
There are few old bold pilots. This is applicable to tractoring and other activities.

The good news is you probably didn't suffer permanent injury (we can only hope) and you live to play again and probably be a more careful citizen for having had that experience.

I hope you are OK and didn't over stress anything too far. I can almost feel the pain of your sore muscles and joints. There are several versions of Excedrin. One of them, Bone and Body, contains no caffeine so you can take it to relieve the pain and not interfere with sleep.

Hope you are up and running again real soon.

Oh, and if the rental outfit doesn't eat the rental charge, I would probably not drop it and go on. They need a wakeup call.

Pat

 

[3RRL]

Terrible experience and I feel your pain John.
Have you contacted the BBB in your area. How about any State agencies that deal with safe rental equipment. If they don't refund your rental fees, I'd tell them there place will be crawling with inspectors in a few minutes. For them to get an attitude like that is unacceptable.

 

[workinallthetime]

reason number 62 to not wear a seat belt, lol j/k
glad your ok, i had a little bx23 that had a large pucker factor a few times on a hill with that dang put it in N to start feature.