Robbin 22hp Engine

[ldabe]

They STINK! Period.

I WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER ROBBIN! OR SUBARU, or whatever they call'em.

I go out to fire it up and all it does is pop a couple times and then start draining the battery! Why does this engine make you pray and talk to it like it's a little girl before you turn the key?

It is kept in the garage (attached and insulated), yes it was down to 10 degrees last night, but it went up to a balmy 26 degrees. Plus, add at least 10 to 15 degrees inside the garage. I know it does not freeze in the garage, because the floor stays wet from the vehicle tires.

Hey, once you get it started it runs fine. But why go through this drama almost every time?!

I have a 1974 Wheelhorse garden tractor with a 16hp Kohler that I don't start for anywhere from 4-7 months. The battery might need a jump, but in 20 seconds that engine is running like it is ready to climb Mt.Everest!

Also have a 2001 Zero turn Ariens 17hp Briggs that is not started all winter, and it is just like the Kohler. (Might need assist on the battery, but the engine fires up and runs great.)

Oh! And get this!! Neither of those (kohler or Briggs) are EVER INSIDE THE GARAGE!!! I don't have to baby them or be a master mechanic or pray without ceasing.

But that stupid, good for nothing ROBBIN'S is a piece of JUNK!

Power Trac I really have not had much problems with. They need to give a little more room to work on things, but other than that, the Power Trac Tractor is mechanically sound.

But that wretched ROBBINS ENGINE...I hate it.

It is the only engine I have ever owned that seems in order for it to run right (actually start right) you need to take it in the house, to bed, and set it a place for dinner at the table. What a joke this engine is.

Btw, I also am (and have been) having the same problems as BobRip with "running rich", and the smell of gas, not wanting to shut off when key turned off...but it has done that every since I bought it.

You know, I see other tractors left out all the time, without even a cover over them, and those guys don't seem to have problems with it being there for them when they need to work it.

Well, that is my rant...and no, I don't feel any better, I still have to get that stinking ROBBINS ENGINE started....maybe if I give it a kiss ;~)

 

[Red55]

Maybe that Robbins engine doesn't want to be treated like a lady? Personally I would leave the b***h outside and then maybe she'll do want ya want. -Ed

 

[ldabe]

Maybe your on to something there Red;~)

I just might do that.

And, she can kiss my left elbow for spelling her name wrong too.

 

[BobRip]

I am under the impression that it is the hydraulics that are always hooked to the engine. When the fluid is cold the motor does not spin fast enough to start. I had the same problem at 32 degrees and had to heat the plugs with a torch and put a heater on the hydraulic tank. Does anyone with a Kohler have this problem? Does it have a much more powerful starter that overcomes the hydraulic drag?
All most all of the time I leave my PT in my Insulated Concrete Form garage which is attached to the house. It rarely gets below 60 in there. So the machine usually (almost always) starts on the first spin.

 

[ponytug]

Idabe,

Upfront disclosure: I've never worked on a Robins/Subaru engine.

That said, it should run on when you turn it off, and it definitely should never smell of gas. Oh, and it should start easily.

Specifically, I would check the carb to make sure the float isn't leaking (which seems to be a common problem with these engines), and then I would check the jet adjustment, and lean it up a bit, and I would double check that you are getting a good spark, and I would consider replacing/upgrading the plug/cable if you weren't.

Have you thought of adding a fuel shutoff valve? I know a couple folks here have had trouble with fuel seeping through the carb, which would mean that starting the engine starts from a flooded condition. If you didn't want a manual valve, you could easily add a solenoid closer to the tank.

Just some free advice, but I have a low tolerance for engines that don't function well. I tore my hair out over a Sears weedwacker last spring that just kept dying on me after 20 minutes or so of work, but only in the afternoons. Finally I traced it to a gas cap that wasn't venting reliably, which would vapor lock the engine when the day warmed up. Did I mention that I dislike intermittent problems intensely?

All the best,

Peter

 

[ldabe]

Ponytug,
I appreciate any and all advice (even if I don't like what I here).

I do have a manual fuel shutoff. I put it on last year. When I parked it in the garage there was a strong odor of gas. After the shutoff was installed, I still had odor, but not as bad, and then after awhile it would go away. I always turn the shutoff off.

I am going to have to take a day soon and try and do some trouble shooting, or if I don't find the time soon I will have to take it for someone else ($$$) to look at. But I cannot take much more of this. It is ridiculous.

If I had my name on an engine that acted like that I would personally send someone to fix it, replace it, or I would just slit my own throat. Integrity I believe, is a thing of the past with most people in this day and age.

BobRip, I may try and find a way to keep the hydro oil warm, but if I just do the tank will it also warm what is going through the hoses?

Well, I still think it is a piece of crap engine...should not act like this...ever.

 

[ponytug]

Dear Idabe,

Since you have a fuel shutoff, and you still have gas odor, you still have a leak somewhere. If I had gas odor, I'd be looking for leaking hoses, or an overflowing carburetor, perhaps due to a leaking float valve. Since you said that you get run on, the odds are very high that you have a carb that is either set too rich, or leaking.

Does your engine oil smell like gas? If so, I would be thinking about the leaking carb/float valve. If it doesn't, I would focus more on the external hoses.

When you get done with it, I would put a slug of carb cleaner/carbon remover in your gas for awhile to help burn out any carbon you have left on your cylinders.

A hydraulic heater would get the tank warm, which would pretty rapidly get warm oil to the pumps, enabling them to spin faster, except for the wheel motor loop. You might want to push the carb and the spark first though. At least, if you did that, you would have the deck stacked in your favor.

All the best,

Peter

Ponytug,
I appreciate any and all advice (even if I don't like what I here).

I do have a manual fuel shutoff. I put it on last year. When I parked it in the garage there was a strong odor of gas. After the shutoff was installed, I still had odor, but not as bad, and then after awhile it would go away. I always turn the shutoff off.

I am going to have to take a day soon and try and do some trouble shooting, or if I don't find the time soon I will have to take it for someone else ($$$) to look at. But I cannot take much more of this. It is ridiculous.

If I had my name on an engine that acted like that I would personally send someone to fix it, replace it, or I would just slit my own throat. Integrity I believe, is a thing of the past with most people in this day and age.

BobRip, I may try and find a way to keep the hydro oil warm, but if I just do the tank will it also warm what is going through the hoses?

Well, I still think it is a piece of crap engine...should not act like this...ever.

 

[DHS]

My 2002 PT422 is a hard starter below 30 degrees. I slide a 115v electric heater under the rear portion of my tractor and cover the rear portion with a tarp and old blanket. It starts easily after an hour or two of heat down to 20 below zero.

The heater I use is a 36" long portable that easily slips under the PT.

http://www.dimplex.com/images/pdfs/electra_deluxe_wallmount_fan.pdf

The PT's starter turns over three hydraulic pumps with thick cold oil. I am not surprised the Robin or any engine has problems starting in cold conditions with three pumps attached. What amazes me is the fact that Kohler engines/starters have little problem starting in the cold.

I complained for a couple of winters until I realized doing the same thing and expecting a different result was not going to happen. I keep my PT in an unheated shed with the heater plugged in but the breaker for the shed open. When I want to use the PT I close the shed breaker in my house panel and in an hour it starts easily.

Actually, I believe it is a good idea to warm the hydraulic oil prior to starting the PT on very cold days. It is probably easier on the hydraulic pumps and wheel motors.

I love my hard starting cold blooded PT422. It is what it is. Our relationship has improved since I started applying a little heat prior to starting on cold days.

Dale

 

[ponytug]

I would only like to point out that for the heaters, it would be advisable to have a heater with a low surface temperature (so you don't get vapor ignition) and a solid state thermostat (no arcs). (Especially because you know that you have gasoline vapor there...!)

While it may not work as well as Dale's system, there are always the magnetic oil pan and block heaters, which have the advatage that they are totally enclosed. Make sure you get enough watts to make a difference.

My coworker has a great line:
Q "What is the definition of insanity?"
A "Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result..."

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

I am under the impression that it is the hydraulics that are always hooked to the engine. When the fluid is cold the motor does not spin fast enough to start. I had the same problem at 32 degrees and had to heat the plugs with a torch and put a heater on the hydraulic tank. Does anyone with a Kohler have this problem? Does it have a much more powerful starter that overcomes the hydraulic drag?
All most all of the time I leave my PT in my Insulated Concrete Form garage which is attached to the house. It rarely gets below 60 in there. So the machine usually (almost always) starts on the first spin.

I have a 2001 Model year PT425 with the Kohler Command engine. I have never pre-heated it. I have started down below -10F (-23C) a few times each winter. At those temps, the cold hydraulics really put a load on the engine starter and you can hear it and feel it dragging until it starts, which is usually under 5 seconds of cranking. The only thing I do is keep a 500MW charger on the battery all the time in winter. The original battery lasted 5 years. I sometimes let it sit for weeks at a time in the winter.

 

[billbill1]

I know nothing about the PT's but I would think that they would come up with an electric clutch to keep from having to spin the cold oil with the starter. Are they set up direct drive off of the engine?

 

[woodlandfarms]

Saddly PT is a great machine but is not known for forward thinking or customer suggestions for improvement. It is a dirt simple machine...

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a link to a video of me plowing snow last Feb. Last February was the coldest February temp on record with an average of 10F for the first half of the month and it was also the second most February with days below zero temp with 7 days below 0.

 

[MossRoad]

I know nothing about the PT's but I would think that they would come up with an electric clutch to keep from having to spin the cold oil with the starter. Are they set up direct drive off of the engine?

Yes... three pumps on mine.

 

[ldabe]

And that, MossRoad, is what I am talking about!

It is a tractor, right? It is not a high dollar sport car that you might understand that you need to baby it, and have a master mechanic to give it deep body message!

Why shouldn't mine run (especially start) like MossRoad's?
Mine is even two years newer.
We live in the same climate zone.

But! And here is a "Big Momma butt"...his is a "kohler"!
Mine is a stinking (odor) stubborn (cold start) "Robin".

There lies the problem.

 

[J_J]

And then you have the other guy that doesn't like Kohler. What is there not to like about a Kohler. It is a fine engine.

 

[ponytug]

To continue the thread of it is reasonable to expect the engine to start at colder temperatures...

MR is certainly helping out cold cranking by keeping the battery absolutely full. Even (especially?) for my diesel truck, I now keep a pair of solar chargers on it always. This means it now starts in seconds every time, whereas before sometimes you would have to crank for minutes after the glow plugs were warm. It was true for new or older batteries alike. Having the battery absolutely full can make a noticeable difference in starting power.

Idabe: A low battery won't affect your spark, but since you have two independent coils, and the engine runs OK, I don't think anything is wrong with the sparking part of your engine. (Unless your storage area is really damp.) A full battery will crank the engine at higher speed, which means the combustion gases get warmer, which increases the chance that they will ignite.

Idabe, I think you are right to be dissatisfied with the performance of the engine, but I also of the opinion that it should be fixable. (trickle charger, better tuning, float valve, etc.) Given all of your comments, I'd have a go at the carb first. I do know that they have changed the starter motor on these engines to a Hitachi; I have no idea if it works any better.

By the way, if you have an old wall wart, a number of the older ones put out 12-14VDC and can be used for trickle charging for the cost of adding battery clamps, or hook up wires. I have one from an old printer that puts out 14.5V @500mAuntil you load it with a battery, when it happily puts out 12.8V, rising to about 13.2V when it finishes charging. I use one to charge my trailer batteries up periodically.

All the best,

Peter

I have a 2001 Model year PT425 with the Kohler Command engine. I have never pre-heated it. I have started down below -10F (-23C) a few times each winter. At those temps, the cold hydraulics really put a load on the engine starter and you can hear it and feel it dragging until it starts, which is usually under 5 seconds of cranking. The only thing I do is keep a 500MW charger on the battery all the time in winter. The original battery lasted 5 years. I sometimes let it sit for weeks at a time in the winter.

 

[cqaigy2]

My coworker has a great line:
Q "What is the definition of insanity?"
A "Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result..."

Sounds like somebody who works on computers. I mean the crazy part.

 

[ponytug]

It came up in a different context, and he would not describe himself as skilled in technology. He's more of a turn it on and use it kind of guy...

Sounds like somebody who works on computers. I mean the crazy part.

 

[MossRoad]

The first 3-4 years I never used the trickle charger. I used it after some discussion here regarding prolonging battery life, not hard starting.

The Robin should start right up. From everything I have read they are dependable engines. However, this cold starting issue has been reported many times here.

So, do they crank with the starter O.K. but just never fire up or do they have trouble cranking, too?