Tiller Reverse Rotation Tillers

[JATO_RaT]

I am curious about a reverse rotation tiller. Can you tell me what disadvantage there would be to having one over a standard rotation? I was pretty set on a Kuhn EL 42/155 but after speaking to a Kuhn/Landpride dealer, he suggested I also take a look at a Landpride RTR20 or RTR25 series. He would be happy to sell either to me. I have the Landpride brochure that states:

" If you put a Reverse Tine Tiller next to anybody's forward Tine Tiller (that's right, even ours), you will learn that the reverse action beats the others everytime."

I understand why it will till the soil finer with fewer passes, even pulverizing vegetation better, but what about the unavoidable rock, roots etc., it would seem that this is where it might take a bit of a beating.

I know tillers have been tossed around a bit here with several folks offering volumes of information. Sweet and CCM to mention a few.

Any advice or experience you could share would be much appreciated.

Tiller would be on a 30.5 PTO, HST tractor.

Thanks in advance, Rat...

 

[HayDR]

Reverse tine tillers are all you have mentioned. They do require 20-30% more HP and tine maintenance. It is a good idea to have an HST transmission when operating the reverse tine tiller so you can go slower so if you contact an obstacle you can quickly stop. It is very important to constantly check your PTO clutch for proper setting. I believe Landpride uses the Walterscheid K92 clutch which is preset and non adjustable without changing the bevel springs. Ask your dealer if he stocks parts for this clutch if it has a Walt. k92 clutch. Walt. K92 clutches are great but not widely used so most dealers do not stock parts for them.

 

[JATO_RaT]

So what do you think about its job vs that of the standard tiller? Doing it quicker is not nearly as important as longevity. Thanks about the heads up on the clutch. You certainly have a lot of information to offer. Rat

 

[Bird]

The only tiller I ever had for the tractor was a forward rotation, but I had a reverse rotation (I think they actually call them "counterrotating") Craftsman rear tine walk behind tiller. I think I'd agree with the Landpride brochure that the reverse rotation does a little better, but I also think it's so little better as to not be a concern. The forward rotating can jump over rocks, roots, etc., but I'd be afraid a reverse rotation would get hung under something like a big root, and hopefully, the only damage would be a sheared bolt or slipped clutch. Purely personal opinion, but I'd stay with the forward rotation myself.

 

[BB_TX]

Here is LandPride's description of the reverse tiller.
<font color="blue"> Reverse rotation of the tiller tines forces the tiller in the ground, preventing "walking" on hard ground. Reduces clods and puts debris beneath finer soil particles </font>
I have never used a reverse rotation tiller but I guess I would be a little leery of using it on any ground that I wasn't sure was clear of roots and rocks.

 

[StanInCalif]

RaT, I would rather put my money into durability. A good forward rotating tiller with six tines per flange and gear drive or a big, beefy chain should do well for you.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

RAT, Which Rototiller would you suggest as a strong durable rototiller?

 

[JATO_RaT]

Quite frankly, the various models I have looked at all looked pretty beefy. The Howard was the only one I looked at with gear driven tines, it was a model HR12 but also seemed to require the most HP per the manufactuers recomendations. The LandPride has a 20 series and a 25 series, both have 6 tines per flange, the difference being the chain size, 80 vs 100 and the weight of the comparable units. Kuhns lower end models are both chain drive, the EL32 being size 80 chain and the EL42 being 100, the website for the US is not up to date on the models. I am looking in each case at the lower end models becasue that seems to fall within the guidelines they establish for my PTO HP and still have a 55" to 60" till width. All of the lower end models use chains that I reviewed. I think the chain drive will be fine. The Kuhn EL42/155, a 60" tiller is about $2200 to give you an idea. The Howard HR12, a great looking tiller, was around $3000 as I recall. Rat

 

[HayDR]

THe CCM MR160-58" is $945 & Gear driven!

 

[JATO_RaT]

There you go! OhioBeeFarmer, CCI has contributed a bunch of info about tillers here at TBN.

 

[ncengr]

From my reading on use of walk behind tillers, the only advantage typically stated for CRT (counter rotation tillers) was faster initial tilling of sod or other vegetation. After the initial passes the advantage goes away. Granted I've never used a CRT - I have a Troybilt Horse with regular rotating tines that I've used for almost 20 years and just recently bought a KK tiller (also normal rotation) to use with my B2710. It has done a great job so far but I have only used it on ground that has been in cultivation for my vegetable garden over the years. It really fluffs up the soil.

 

[StanInCalif]

Good post, Steve- theoretically. a reverse tine is better, but often theory goes to $#IT when dealing with such obstacles as rocks, roots, and solidified clay soil. I, too, have a vintage (1972) Horse model that I completely rebuilt and repowered with a Kohler M8. It now does the finish work in the garden.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

RaT:

I too am looking for a tiller and considering the reverse tine option (sorry, counter rotating). Can't say for certain whether its worth the extra money ($700-$900 more). But I can say from experience when the tines run opposite to the wheel direction, the action is noticably better. Example, a couple weeks ago was preparing a small strip (6'x100') of hard, dry clay for grass with a Gravely two wheel (actually 4 wheel-it has duals) garden tractor, in forward the tiller would do very little beyond scraping. In reverse (the tractor backing up-PTO sticks out the front so tiller is in front) the tiller would at least "chip" the clay and break it up nicely. Was adding in lots of peat moss, manure, lime, gypsum, etc. Did all right, the grass is up a couple inches now. I suspect, based on my experience, that for building soil, deep fine tilling in the least time the reverse tine tiller is better. Once the soil is loose I suspect the forward turning tiller would work fine.

Frankly, I am leaning to the regular tiller as you could "back into" whatever you are tilling and would, in effect, have the action of reverse rotating tines to do the initial tilling on hardpan (although you would leave tracks-but once broken up, a quick forward pass would take care of that). Of course, if you're doing acres and acres that would be a pain.

Regarding your pricing info, the Landpride model (72" M/L) reverse tine goes for $2440 here (east central MO) and an equivalent Bush Hog for $2465 (these are actual quotes 6-10-03). In forward turning tillers (same 72") price is $1700-$1750. King Kutter makes a 72" geared, forward turning tiller that looks really solid-though I don't know about the long term quality of the materials-for $1200-$1300 (they had one on sale a few weeks ago for $1199).

Anyone:

Does anyone have any thoughts on chain drive vs. geared drive on tillers. It would seems the geared would be much more durable since the chains would certainly wear faster. The dealer says chains are just as good but that doesn't seem logical. I note the heavier models (such as the heavy Bush Hog) use gearing. But I can't say for certain. Anyone have any thoughts on this issue, chain drive vs. gear drive????

JEH

 

[JATO_RaT]

If you search through some of the attachments posts, you will find lots about gears vs chains on tillers. It was back around december or so as I recall. To sum it up, it sounded as though gears are more durable but a good tiller with chain can hold up a long time particularly those who don't use it routinely like in commercial landscaping. The geared tillers are more common in the larger tillers.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

RaT:

Thanks. Sometimes forget (old age and appoaching senility and all) to do a search before posting. That's how I found this thread on reverse tine tillers, oops, counter rotating tillers. Did you get a tiller yet?

JEH

 

[SGBotsford]

One use for counter rotating tillers is for hole filling/leveling. Set it to just barely make a cut. It keeps sweeping the lumps ahead of it until it finds a hole. This is the only way I've found to deal with a combination of ruts and grass short of ploughing and reseeding.

If you want to try it, set up a regular tiller and back into your work. This is hard on the neck for more than a few hundred feet.