Retorquing wheels

[BillyP]

Yeah - was a couple years back I think.

Thanks! I was almost certain I had seen them before

 

[madpogue]

That's a good question...my wheels are welded which are which is what I've seen used with R-4 Industrial Tires
I'd guess your tires are Ag (R-1's) which have the built up wheels.
So, I don't know if you need to, but it sure can't help if you do. Maybe someone with Ag tire experience will chime in...

Update: I was looking at the pic of your new 790...
Anyway, if those nuts and bolts loosen, you'll see the paint chipping or loosening too, so, IMHO torquing the rim/center section fasteners probably isn't necessary. However, suggest you go by your manual.

Yup, I might see some paint moving on the bolt head side (outside). Side note - shows to go you what a great neighbor/mentor I have - I noticed, when we reconfig'ed the wheels, that since they were painted after the outer rim and dish were assembled, that the areas around the bolt heads, previously covered by the flanges of the dishes, were only primered. And with the reconfig, they were now exposed. I just made a side joke about it, and what did Danny do? Went over to his bench and grabbed a can of yellow spray paint, and painted 'em to match! But alas, since that's how we did the reconfig, the nut/thread side has disturbed paint anyway. Maybe I shoulda painted them when I had the chance.

Hm, the owner's manual mentions the torque of the lug bolts, but not the carriage bolts/nuts. Well, I'm supposed to be getting the service manual on CD this weekend, so I'll consult that.

 

[RoyJackson]

but I put a witness mark[u/quote]

OK, but can't you lose some torqueness due to bolt stretch ?
Thus no moving marks ?

I'd say that would be negligible for most torquing we tractor owners would be exposed to.
It was never a subject in the aerospace applications I'm familar with.

However, the point of the witness marks is if the bolt or nut does loosen, those marks won't be aligned.

 

[RoyJackson]

Well, I'm supposed to be getting the service manual on CD this weekend, so I'll consult that.

That CD is a great purchase!

 

[john_bud]

Someone asked about 1/2 drive socket sets. You can get them pretty commonly up to 1-1/4 inch and if you know where to look you can get them up to 1-1/2. After that, going 3/4 is required. My set is 1/2 up to 1 1/4 then 3/4 for the 1 1/4 to 1-15/16. Tractors dictate some larger tools. And things like a smoke wrench for the really tough ones.

jb

 

[patrick_g]

There is a Chinese import set sold under various names. Harbor Freight is one source. IT is 3/4 inch drive ratchet wrench and breaker bar and a set of sockets. I have had one for over 5 years and never a problem. I don't use them every week so if they aren't perfect quality like a daily use pro needs, so what.

I paid $39.95 at a FLAPS in San Diego but they are commonly available for about $50 and are worth it if you use them even once a year. I also have a 3/4 to 1/2 adaptor and vice versa.

I have a HF torque wrench (clicker type) that goes up to 600 lb-ft. I use it to torque my lug nuts which are specked at 450 lb-ft because most tire shops don't have a suitable torque wrench if they have one at all and some shops couldn't even take off my lugs that were at 450 lb-ft.

Pat

 

[canoetrpr]

Just checked out the HarborFreight website... they look awesome. Great prices. I don't think that they will ship to Canada unfortunately but I will ask.

 

[patrick_g]

Just checked out the HarborFreight website... they look awesome. Great prices. I don't think that they will ship to Canada unfortunately but I will ask.

I don't know how far from the border you are but HF is a national chain (in the US) and might have a store near your POE. I have never researched international shipping BUT I recall the Tom Hanks movie that showed UPS to be global. Not sure about customs, duty, or the like but the quick glance I took at the UPS info on the net assures me you could get a UPS delivery arranged without too much hassle.

If the problem is that HF won't cooperate that is a larger issue.

Pat

 

[acohen100]

Since we are talking about torquing can someone answer a dumb question. I was looking up a nut on my MMM in the manual to tell how much to torque it. It is the nut on top of the deck that surrounds the grease fitting. I measured the nut diameter (from outside edge to outside edge) and it was about 25-26mm. The largest one they list in their torque chart is 19-22mm. Am I measuring right? Am I supposed to be measuring the inside diameter? I'm a little lost here. I can't seem to match this nut up with one on the chart. Not only that but it seems to be bigger than the biggest one they list on the chart, but it is not the biggest nut on the deck by far.

 

[john_bud]

Since we are talking about torquing can someone answer a dumb question. I was looking up a nut on my MMM in the manual to tell how much to torque it. It is the nut on top of the deck that surrounds the grease fitting. I measured the nut diameter (from outside edge to outside edge) and it was about 25-26mm. The largest one they list in their torque chart is 19-22mm. Am I measuring right? Am I supposed to be measuring the inside diameter? I'm a little lost here. I can't seem to match this nut up with one on the chart. Not only that but it seems to be bigger than the biggest one they list on the chart, but it is not the biggest nut on the deck by far.

You measure the diameter of the stud, not the nut.

jb

 

[SPYDERLK]

Quote patrick g: I have a HF torque wrench (clicker type) that goes up to 600 lb-ft. I use it to torque my lug nuts which are specked at 450 lb-ft because most tire shops don't have a suitable torque wrench if they have one at all and some shops couldn't even take off my lugs that were at 450 lb-ft.

That grand L has some pretty big lugs! Have you checked the calibration of your HF wrench. I have the next size down from yours and it checks out at 10% low. Easy to just crank in the extra to make it right.
larry

 

[patrick_g]

John is right.

The torque before permanent deformation of the fastener exceeds the typical torque spec. The ability of a fastener to take torque is not influenced by the size or style of the head. That is only important in selecting a wrench or socket to fit it. A particular diameter bolt of a particular strength of materials, and thread pattern can take the same torque irrespective of whether it is a hex head or a carriage bolt.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

That grand L has some pretty big lugs! Have you checked the calibration of your HF wrench. I have the next size down from yours and it checks out at 10% low. Easy to just crank in the extra to make it right.
larry

Luckily I had access via a sailing buddy, who is a mech engineer, to lab grade torque testing ability. We put my torque wrenches in line with his calibrated wrenches and logged the results. None were off enough to warrant a calibration sheet. The error curve on the big wrench was not linear. The wrench was dead on in three places and just a tad high or low everywhere else. The curve was smooth and continuous so there are no surprises and what is a few percent one way or the other anyway, given the lack of a need for really close tolerances in my use of the torque wrench. It is way bigger than any of my tire irons or breaker bars so I use it for a breaker bar too with no deleterious effects.

In the old days I had a cheapie Sears unit with dial and pointer that developed error with hard use but you could just grab the pointer and ZERO it (or stress it backwards till the error was neutralized.)

I carry the large torque wrench in a cabinet of my service body. It is wrapped up in protective rubber matting. When I encounter an unprepared shop/mech who has no tool to cover the needed range (450 lb-ft for my 19.5 Alcoas) I open the cabinet, unroll the cover and produce EXCALIBER. I'm still waiting for an opportunity to say, "that's not a torque wrench.... this is a TORQUE WRENCH!!!"

Pat

 

[43WLC]

Seem to be a lot of talented people here but I couldn't see what I think is full explanation to the loss of accuracy attached to using an extension with a torque wrench.

When you use a torque wrench without an extension, it's fairly easy to keep the wrench at close to right angles to the bolt.
Or, more technically, the longitudinal axis of the torch wrench must be at right angles to the longitundal axis of the bolt to get an accurate result.

If you use an extension, you get 2 lots of wobble instead of one.
You get the chance of twice the innacuracy.

I can't see the length of the extension makes much difference to the amout of innacuracy that comes from using an extension.
Except that, the longer the extension, the more difficult it is to keep the TW at right angles to the bolt.

A torque magnifier may be the answer to torquing up deepset nuts, and to undoing them afterwards.
A torque adapter could be the answer to tightening deepset nuts, but it's no use for undoing them.

Thanks for reading my offering.

 

[43WLC]

Torque multiplier not magnifier.
Sorry.

 

[oldballs]

This discussion certainly is twisting and turning. So what is the amount of torque one decreases when using a lubricant on the threads e.g.anti-seize or some grease?

 

[JimRB]

This discussion certainly is twisting and turning. So what is the amount of torque one decreases when using a lubricant on the threads e.g.anti-seize or some grease?

You can find charts in many places. BOLTS AND TORQUE SPECS

 

[43WLC]

lubrication can reduce the torque value by 15% to 25%;

Bolted joint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kind Regards, Mike

 

[43WLC]

In terms of wheel nuts, lugs, bolts;
I been unable to find any information
on the effect of lubricant
on the chances of a correctly torqued fastener
coming undone.

Rumour control has it that lubricated wheel nuts
are more likely to come undone.

If anyone knows the facts on that one,
please will you let me know.

Cheers, Mike

 

[RoyJackson]

In terms of wheel nuts, lugs, bolts;
I been unable to find any information
on the effect of lubricant
on the chances of a correctly torqued fastener
coming undone.

Rumour control has it that lubricated wheel nuts
are more likely to come undone.

If anyone knows the facts on that one,
please will you let me know.

Cheers, Mike

I use an anti-seize compound on my wheel bolts as I want to be able to get them off if necessary. Then, I torque to factory specs...and torque stripe the bolt heads.
As you may recall, your tractor manual does call out to check the tightness of many fasterners (including wheel bolts or nuts) periodically. You shouldn't just torque 'em and forget 'em.