Really just looking right now

Anonymous Poster · Mar 11, 2003

The CFO getting sick of hearing about the tractor I'm going to buy one of these days- her comments are along the line of "Why don't you just buy one?" Feeling a little odd talking her out of it. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Our situation is this;

We live on an only largish (1/3 acre) residential lot. So no problem justifying a smaller CUT with a FEL, tiller, ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But we are fairly actively looking at property with the intention of buying a few undeveloped acres on which to build. So I'm going to need a good size TLB with top'n'tilt, a heavy box blade, posthole digger, tiller, brush hog, ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So instead of buying too small and having to renegotiate for a trade up, my plan is to see how big I need and buy right the first time. This of course involves constant research in order to make a truly informed decision when the time comes.

Of course the fact that I'm not actully looking to buy right now doesn't mean that promising leads can be allowed to pass by (I'll post a description of this evening's excursion in the appropriate brand specific forum.)

So my questions;

Should I give in to the pressure and let her force me into buying? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Is there value in learning the ropes on a smaller tractor? Has anyone else gone through something similar?

As always, thank you to all -

DavesTractor · Mar 11, 2003

You have a window of opportunity. Don't let it pass!

19th_VA · Mar 11, 2003

The longer you have to look, the better off you are. But don't let a great deal pass you by. Can I get your wife to talk to my wife? I've got my tractor but now I just need some .... implements!

BB_TX · Mar 11, 2003

I would do lots of looking, questioning, test driving, but I would suggest not buying until you find that ideal plot of land. That will likely determine how much tractor and what accessories you will need. You may need no more than 20 hp with MMM. Or you may need 35 hp with HD cutter. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif You have already passed the hard part, getting the CFO to agree. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Now the second hardest part, waiting until you actually need it. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Pacesetter300 · Mar 11, 2003

It is common to find a very nice used machine that someone else has taken the depreciation hit on. In your shoes, I would buy a smaller used machine now to use as a test bed. Then you will know in the future from personal experience what you really need. If you end up purchasing more proterty than you anticipated, anything suitable now will probably be too small later. JMHO
Pacesetter

Soundguy · Mar 11, 2003

( Is there value in learning the ropes on a smaller tractor? Has anyone else gone through something similar?
)

I did exactly the same. Me and the wife lived in a regular housing neighborhood..1/4 to 1/3rd ac lots, houses everywhere... and there I was with my yanmar 1700 parked behind the house under a tarp!... but we were actively looking to buy land and move. Happened within 8 months or so of buying the tractor. And yes, it eventually turned out to be a bit small. So.... I had to get another one....and another one... and am still looking at another one... ( I think I'm infected with the collecting bug... ).

SouNdguy

Richard · Mar 12, 2003

The longer you have to look, the better off you are

Not being a tractor owner yet myself (I bought a industrial TLB), I sort of have to agree with Jonathan. When I was first looking at tractors, I coudl not decide between say the B2910, or the L3010. Now that time has passed, (and I've done things with Brutus), I'm wondering if the M series might be more appropirate for our needs as far as tractor per se goes.

Richard

Anonymous Poster · Mar 12, 2003

Thank you all for the input-

19th_VA, you bring up a very good point when you mention implements-

Let's say I buy a "starter" tractor tomorrow. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

That would allow me to get a feel for this whole tractor thing, rather than just reading about it and getting drool all over the dealer's units.

Of course even this tractor would have to be useful and let me diligently learn the necessary skills. So right off it has to have a FEL. So even going with a grey or an older used unit, I'm probably looking at $7K-10K minimum. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I'll have to do a little more convincing that this can be recouped on resale. So the sale of tractor 1 would go directly into the purchase of tractor 2. That should satisfy the CFO. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

But having moved all the dirt on one side of the yard to the other side, and then back again, I'll probably have to show off more of a tractors overwhelming versatility. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif That means implements. Tiller, box blade, posthole digger, ... The problem here is is seems that in many cases implements have to be sized to match the tractor.

So here are my questions; /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

How likely is it that implements purchased for a smaller tractor would have to be replaced for a larger tractor? Which implements are most likely to require replacement, i.e. which implements need to be closely sized to the tractor?

Given that tractors have excellent resale value, do implements tend to keep their value as well? Can the the money spent on a bunch of smaller implements be recouped towards the purchase of larger ones?

Bird · Mar 12, 2003

Good thinking, in my opinion, Peter.

( How likely is it that implements purchased for a smaller tractor would have to be replaced for a larger tractor? )

Very likely. Actually, you can probably keep using the smaller implements, but you might not like it.

( Which implements are most likely to require replacement )

When I traded up from a B7100 to a B2710, I traded up to larger sized brush hog and box blade, and really wanted to trade up to a bigger tiller and plows, but just couldn't justify the cost.

( do implements tend to keep their value as well? )

Maybe some other folks have a different opinion, but in my experience . . . NO! If an implement shows the results of very much use, I think you're doing well if you can get half what it cost new.

One other thing you might consider is starting with a cheaper used tractor, but try to get the same size as you expect the newer one in the future to be, and that way you can keep the same implements.

That's my opinion, your mileage may vary. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

chrisjbell · Mar 12, 2003

How likely is it that implements purchased for a smaller tractor would have to be replaced for a larger tractor? Which implements are most likely to require replacement, i.e. which implements need to be closely sized to the tractor? 

Excellent questions, there. I sure wish I'd known about this forum before I bought my tractor five years ago. Here's my situation...

I'm on 10 acres (just above you in the lower foothills) and have a Kubota B7300. Great tractor - don't know what I'd do without it. But a bigger one would be nice.

So as far as implements go, I could probably use all of them on a larger machine - the question with 3 point implements is the hitch size, which for pretty much any CUT is going to be Category 1 (I think the really small ones may use Cat 0, and the larger ones might handle Cat 2 but the majority will be Cat 1).

So given that, I could probably use all of my current 3 PT attachments. BUT...I have 48" attachments (brush hog, blade, etc.) right now. Get a bigger tractor and I'll want a 60" 'hog - but the 48" would still work. With a wider wheelbase, my 48" blade won't cover the tire tracks, so I'll want a new one of those. But my ripper will work just fine on a larger machine.

My Woods backhoe can probably go on a larger tractor with no problem, though, and since my current machine is probably on the small size for the 'hoe a larger tractor would work a bit better for that implement (which is by far and away my most expensive investment). The FEL wouldn't work for me unless I only stepped up a very small amount in size, which wouldn't make $$$ sense.

 Given that tractors have excellent resale value, do implements tend to keep their value as well? Can the the money spent on a bunch of smaller implements be recouped towards the purchase of larger ones?


One note about resale value...I'd be cautious about the "grey market" tractors maintaining their value as well as the more established brands. I could be wrong on this (some folks really like those machines), but sticking to the "big brands" makes a lot of sense to me.

I don't really know much about trading tractors and implements in. I'd also appreciate some information on that subject (Oh, NO! I'm getting New Tractor Fever /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif!). To be honest, though, I think what I'll wind up doing is keeping my B7300 and getting another tractor - I don't think you can have too many /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Actually, one of the main motivations for that would be to avoid having to change implements as often. That is really not a fun task (you can search for threads with "!@$#!" in the text and get an earfull /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif). On the other hand, they are pricey beasts - but so much fun!

...Chris

19th_VA · Mar 12, 2003

It seems to me, based on what I've read in this forum, good resale is restricted to the big three--not that you'll get nothing for other tractors, but probably a lot less than what you paid for it. Then again, if you buy it used, the value does not have as far to drop. assuming you get a good deal in the first place. I thought Bird's post had some great advice.

SteveM · Mar 12, 2003

I am kindof a traditional-farmer type, so I will try not to be harsh, just clear: this is not about money. Right now you live on 1/3 acre, you are talking about buying a couple acres to build a house. Neither plot of land really justifies much of a tractor, much less an expensive TLB. I would think one year of weekends and you will have moved every inch of soil on 2 acres with a TLB - even a BX22. So if you get to the point with the CFO where this is a hobby, a toy, you will at least be honest with your loved one. I cant even imagine having a CUT on a 1/3 acre plot...it would take less than a half hour to mow the lawn....? And a tiller - you would have two passes and be done.

I have 40 acres, till 5 mow 3, hog 5 and I cant justify a TLB. I hire a track hoe for $90 an hour and leave the light stuff to my used compact. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SethO · Mar 12, 2003

SteveM

Harsh you are not. I was going to post same about people living on 1 or 2 acre plots needing a big tractor. As you noted, the house itself occupies the whole space.

I live on a 35 acre plot, mostly wooded. I have about 2 acres of lawn to mow, a pond to mow around, a gravel driveway about 600ft long to maintain, and a mile and a half of trail on my grounds. My small BX22 is up to the task, unless I am missing something. I am not a farmer.

A tractor as a toy is a different matter though.

SethO

rdricks · Mar 12, 2003

I cant even imagine having a CUT on a 1/3 acre plot...it would take less than a half hour to mow the lawn....?

I had to laugh when I saw this - I am on a 1/2 acre residential plot, and yes, my tractor is a toy, although a handy one. With my MMM, it takes me about 5 passes around the front yard to mow, and around 15 passes in the back. Usually I can finish my drink before I am done mowing, if I take my time moving from the front to the back.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 12, 2003

HI,

I don't believe the original poster really said how big of a tractor he was thinking of getting. He seems mainly to want to get the right one for him and realizes that he might want something bigger later after he moves to a place with a few acres.

I don't doubt that small TLB like the bx22 would work well for several acres, but I also know that there are MANY people that have tractors larger than the bx22...on several acres or less.

Myself, I have a Kubota B2910 and under 4 acres. I love it and am glad I went with the bigger tractor, although as some here may know I did start looking at the bx22.

For the last 20 years I have watched my neighbor happily use his 36 HP Massy on his 4.5 acres. Granted he does cut the grass on his small green tractor. But for other than grass cutting he is always on the big guy.

I think we should all keep in mind SteveM's thoughts...but personally, I don't think the bx22 is the stopping point for someone that only has several acres. Naturally my opinion is that something the size of a B2910 is the stopping point... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I like the extra loader capacity and the larger backhoe [when I use it]. I did not buy my tractor just because I could use one, but also because it is something I dreamed about having for 20 years [actually more] and when it became possible I got both a tool and a toy.

They say there is a skinny person inside each of us, and I guess there is a bx22 inside my tractor too. My B2910 may be more than I actually need, but it certainly is not more than I actually want!

Anonymous Poster · Mar 12, 2003

Replies to many, with thanks...

Wow- so here goes;

Bird- Everyone seems to agree that a small tractor can do most thing a larger one can do, just much more slowly. I guess that keeping a smaller implement with a larger tractor would tend to negate at least some of its relative advantage. Unfortunately, the "cheaper" larger used tractors tend to push one into somewhere close to the new range of smaller units. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

chrisjbell- I had managed to figure out the bit about certain implements needing to cover the wheel base. So a smaller tractor can't handle implements that are too big, and smaller implements can't handle a tractor that is too big. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

19th_VA- As for greys, they're always tempting, but I too tended to gravitate towards the big three. Something about not having the experience to trust myself to fight the current. Used tractors still seem amazingly high to me compared to new, but if I pick tractors anything like I pick stocks it'll be but high and sell low. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

SteveM- If by harsh you mean honest, bring it on. I have always presented a tractor in the same manner as most of my other large tools; useful hobby items. In terms of need, we were just considering a 27+ acre property, basically completely undeveloped. Access issues ended up dissuading us, but I do actually have "real" tractor work in mind. But I will always admit that I am not intending to be a farmer, and I suppose I could live without a tractor on our current property. (An admission I will make only because "she" doesn't read these posts! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

SethO- The BX-22 is actually the unit I have focused most of my attention on, and is the one the CFO assumes is "my" tractor. And my birthday is coming up... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

rdricks- Since we live on a court, we have a postage stamp sized front yard, more than a little of which is concrete. For me it's not much more than 5 passes pushing the old Lawn Boy. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Henro- I've never said how big, at least for the future. Based on the many threads exploring that topic, i know that I'm not going to let myself get pinned down on that right now. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

All of this simply proves once again what an amazing resource TBN is. Do you think we can get Muhammad to start WorldPeaceByNet or CureForCancerByNet ?

thcri · Mar 12, 2003

I guess everyone has their own reasons for the size of tractor they have. Most of you would say murph your crazy for having 29 horsepower for only 2.2 acres. And for the most part I would agree with you. But I had a 21 horsepower and on my hills I actually feared for my life especially with the loader. So 29 horsepower was not my goal but a more stable tractor. It takes me about an hour to mow my lawn. Actually I probably have only 1 acre to mow. I would have gone with the 25 horsepower but the 29 was only $400.00 more. So that is my reasons. Do I wish I had a smaller tractor and spent less. Absolutely not. My neighbors may laugh some but I don't care. I enjoy my tractor and now when my 13 year old daughter gets on it and mows, I don't have to worry. For those of you that have kids, it is a joy to sit and watch them drive the tractor. Something I won't ever forget.

murph

chrisjbell · Mar 13, 2003

Re: Replies to many, with thanks...

Hey, we're keeping you busy with having to respond to so many, huh? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 So a smaller tractor can't handle implements that are too big, and smaller implements can't handle a tractor that is too big. 

Almost what I meant. The smaller tractor can't handle the bigger implements (I once tried to use a 60" tiller on mine, and it fit the 3PT hitch but the thing nearly tipped me over backwards when I tried to pick it up and move it /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif). A bigger tractor can handle smaller implements just fine (like Bird mentioned).

But what I was talking about is that for a mower (at least a brush hog), it isn't a big deal if the implement is narrower than your wheel track - it isn't going to make much of a difference. For something like a blade or a box scraper, if the implement is narrower than the tractor's wheel track it'll still work, but you'll have wheel tracks that won't get covered up by the trailing blade.

Does that make any sense at all? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

But you (generally) *can* use a smaller implement on a larger tractor without harm as long as the hitch type is the same.

Oh, and don't worry about replying to me specifically - I'm sure you have your hands full /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

BTW, the BX22 sounds like a *really* nice tractor. It has more HP than mine, is actually a bit smaller (which is a Good Thing because the COG is lower, so less likely to tip), and has power steering, too. My father in law just bought two acres and is looking so I'm pretty curious about this stuff now.

...Chris

Anonymous Poster · Mar 13, 2003

Re: Replies to many, with thanks...

I understood exactly what you meant the first time, chrisjbell- can't a guy have a little fun? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And if y'all can take the time to reply to a newbie, I really can't expect any sympathy for having to take the time to read and acknowledge.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 13, 2003

Y'know Richard, I just thought of something-

( Not being a tractor owner yet myself (I bought a industrial TLB) )

Doesn't the "T" in "TLB" stand for tractor ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Or does no PTO or three point disqualify you?