ram 6.4 hemi
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Diamondpilot
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We run lots of strokers. We punch out 350 GM'S to 383 cu in. They make great boat motors. We get 320HP at the prop and about 350 at the fly wheel. It's not about HP, but torque, and more importantly where it makes that torque.
This is a big reason why I have liked Ford Trucks. As a whole the usable torque is better then what the competition has. This usable power is also why I bought a Nissan Titan. I can honestly care less about empty mpg. I have a car for that. I want grunt and reasonable economy when towing.
Chris
sd455dan
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If you like the Chev 383 you would Love a Pontiac 455 set up -even 20 years ago it was possible to build a gas pump friendly version producing almost 400 ft. lbs at 1000 rpms and maintaining over that amount to 5000 + rpms. But i am biased... and with the epa regs about the only way to do it would be to buy a 1976 or older truck and shoe horn it in...
IMO the 400 ,421,428 and 455 would have been superior engines to the the chevies used in the GM truck line back in the day...
Reyer Farms
Platinum Member
That's a nice pickup. My wife had a company truck like that a few years back, it had the. 5.7. It was fun to drive. She did not like the brakes, kinda spongy loaded. It got 12 mpg period. How is the tow/haul and braking towing ? Compared to others.
Neighbor stop by one day and told me we were going to have a girl. I asked why and he said that pickup rode so bad it would shake the.......... Off a lil boy.
We had a little girl.
Neighbor stop by one day and told me we were going to have a girl. I asked why and he said that pickup rode so bad it would shake the.......... Off a lil boy.
We had a little girl.
OP
mowin
Silver Member
Congrats on the lil girl.
The tow haul worked like all of my other trucks. The ram definitely out towed my '11 GMC with 6.0 and 3.73's. Braking was great also. Truck felt solid and handled the load very well.
handirifle
Veteran Member
For a few years I had a '68 Chevy 1/2 ton, with the 396 in it. 325hp, no idea how much torque, but it didn't make one snits bit of difference when I loaded the cab over camper on it. I got 10 mpg with that truck no matter what it was doing. Power wise those were great motors, but that was where it ended, IMHO.
Reyer Farms
Platinum Member
Thanks mowin. That's great about the truck doing like you want. I prefer owning a gas versus diesel pickup. I know that flies in the face of popular opinion. Owning a diesel now is a hassle. I figure I can replace my gas engine for the cost of diesel upkeep. The gas engines now are pretty impressive too. Keep enjoying that new Ram!!
Used to be that the difference in power was huge from weak gas to stout diesel. And you could easily tune the diesel for heaps more torque. And you got all that for not much more $$, mileage was 50% better and fuel was 20% CHEAPER. Now gas engines get nearly as much HP and torque, the diesel engine cost is huge up front and the fuel costs 20% more and you only get a minor bump in mpgs. My current diesel may be my last
.handirifle
Veteran Member
Used to be that the difference in power was huge from weak gas to stout diesel. And you could easily tune the diesel for heaps more torque. And you got all that for not much more $$, mileage was 50% better and fuel was 20% CHEAPER. Now gas engines get nearly as much HP and torque, the diesel engine cost is huge up front and the fuel costs 20% more and you only get a minor bump in mpgs. My current diesel may be my last
Well I beg to differ with you on your assessment. First off, the "nearly as much HP and torque, is only half right. Yes they can match or exceed HP numbers, but when you consider the 2014 6.7 Cummins lineup you can go from 350-385HP (Hemi's 366-383 depending on engine) and 660-850TQ (Hemi's 400-429 depending on engine). The new 6.4 Hemi is impressive, but still only HALF the torque of 2 different offerings in the diesel lineup. Mileage, I'd be willing to bet, will still be better than the 6.4. I'd wager the new Cummins are getting 15-17 fairly regularly, and the difference when hooked to a decent load will be even greater.
As for fuel, I know that varies from day to day, and place to place, but we just drove by the station where I regularly fill up our car and truck. It was 87 octane 4.15 gal, and diesel 3.99.
Not getting into a one is better than the other, just correcting the "facts". All the numbers above are solid, with the exception of the fuel prices which could be way different next week, but that is how they stack up tonight, where I live.
That's just the Ram numbers. Fords 6.7 is something like 400 hp and 750tq. The GM 6.6 is 397hp and 750tq. Ford is letting out their next version numbers and they are like 440/840. Prob will still get better mpgs than the gas engines.
Or go the other route with the Dodge lineup and go the Eco diesel, with and estimated (tests are returning HIGHER numbers) 28 mpg highway, and in 2 tests I have read broke 30mpg. In addition, when towing a 7400lb load it still got 19 mpg. Most trucks are happy with 19 when empty.
Other costs such as maint, and longevity are not factored into the "better" issue.
OP
mowin
Silver Member
. Diesel has been higher here in upstate NY for many yrs. Today, 87 octane is $3.65, while diesel is $4.45. I would imagine your area is the exception rather than the norm. I have travled from Maine to PA and as far west as MI and havnt seen diesel anywhere close to the price of 87, let alone cost less. If diesel was lower in my area I would be seriously looking into a diesel if they didnt have the emission crap on 'em.
DeereMann
Platinum Member
That's a nice truck, mowin.
By all means let us know what mileage you get via manual calculation. I am running the 5.7L HEMI now w/3.73 gears & 6-sp. I get 20mpg deadhead highway, 13.5mpg loaded trailer highway. City around 15.0mpg.
Reading the posts, I didn't know Dodge hadn't tuned the HEMI for truck use and it was high rpm peaky on torque. Now I am real curious what they did with the new 6.4L.
P.S. - my fave 'old time' engine was the Pontiac small block 400 cid. Man, what a lip-ripper that thing was! All you needed was gas (half burned out the exhaust pipe
)handirifle
Veteran Member
Some years back, went on a elk hunt with two co-workers. We went to NM. Diesel prices dropped almost $1 a gallon when we left CA. I know things have dramatically changed since then, but I honestly feel there is some underlying (lying being the key root word here) reason for gas prices vs diesel to have suddenly reversed themselves. I do not trust the oil companies any more than I trust the Feds.
I still remember a politician who successfully campaigned for Pres about 6 years ago, saying for HIS plan to work, "energy prices would naturally skyrocket". Well at least one thing said wasn't a lie, unfortunately.
MikePA
Super Moderator
Unfortunately, whether supply and demand caused the price changes or something else did, in many parts of the country diesel costs quite a bit more than gasoline which more than offsets the diesel mpg advantage.
Diamondpilot
Super Star Member
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- Daleville, IN
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- Jinma 254/284 Ford 861 Powermaster at work
handirifle
Veteran Member
Worth it to me though, that's why I went diesel, just 5 weeks ago. No going back for me. The power is unbelievable.
Good luck on the new Hemi.
Good luck on the new Hemi.
ericher69
Veteran Member
http://www.californiagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D&mwo=1
Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet
handirifle
Veteran Member
Interesting site, but not one of those places listed is within 200 miles of where I live, either north or south, AND every one of them is a major metro area. Prices in major cities in CA ALWAYS favor gas, that's one reason I am convinced these prices are NOT supply and demand. There is a decided effort to "undiesel" CA. These greenies are absolute morons. They think all the toxic waste from making lithium batteries is way better that getting 40% higher mileage with a diesel car.
They see a 2.0L diesel car getting 48 mpg and a 1.8L gas car getting close to the same and say see, they are close. What they don't know is that 2.0L diesel pulls like a big V6, so instead of slowing down to 45 going up a steep hill, it stays at 65-70 with REAL cars.
Where I live it's rural, actually more like the Midwest then CA, I know, I grew up in Ohio, and diesel trucks are about 40% or higher, of the trucks one the road in this area.
LOTS of agriculture, and lots of horse folks here (not me, me and horses never get along too well) so hauling stock trailers or loads of hay etc is common place, thus diesel is in demand. In cities there isn't much call for diesel and stations charge what they want. I AVOID cities whenever possible.
I gotta tell you, I was just in LA in Feb, my son lives there and just got married, and prices were right about $4.10 for diesel cause I had to fill up my truck. Didn't notice gas, cause wasn't buying gas.
As I said earlier, for me, the power is worth it, period. I have owned trucks for 40 years, and have had some big powerful engines, but none have pulled like this and returned 18 mpg on the highway. The ones that were real strong, usually got more like 8 on the highway.
I hope the technology will allow the OP to get better than low teens for that big engine, but for me having 600+ lbs torque on tap is an unreal ride. In fact, I'd love to get an old 1/2 ton and convert it with a Cummins 4BT 3.9L, 4cyl. I could have about 150hp and 450+ lbft of torque, and with proper gearing, most likely get high 20's or better for mileage, and a unusual ride.
They see a 2.0L diesel car getting 48 mpg and a 1.8L gas car getting close to the same and say see, they are close. What they don't know is that 2.0L diesel pulls like a big V6, so instead of slowing down to 45 going up a steep hill, it stays at 65-70 with REAL cars.
Where I live it's rural, actually more like the Midwest then CA, I know, I grew up in Ohio, and diesel trucks are about 40% or higher, of the trucks one the road in this area.
LOTS of agriculture, and lots of horse folks here (not me, me and horses never get along too well) so hauling stock trailers or loads of hay etc is common place, thus diesel is in demand. In cities there isn't much call for diesel and stations charge what they want. I AVOID cities whenever possible.
I gotta tell you, I was just in LA in Feb, my son lives there and just got married, and prices were right about $4.10 for diesel cause I had to fill up my truck. Didn't notice gas, cause wasn't buying gas.
As I said earlier, for me, the power is worth it, period. I have owned trucks for 40 years, and have had some big powerful engines, but none have pulled like this and returned 18 mpg on the highway. The ones that were real strong, usually got more like 8 on the highway.
I hope the technology will allow the OP to get better than low teens for that big engine, but for me having 600+ lbs torque on tap is an unreal ride. In fact, I'd love to get an old 1/2 ton and convert it with a Cummins 4BT 3.9L, 4cyl. I could have about 150hp and 450+ lbft of torque, and with proper gearing, most likely get high 20's or better for mileage, and a unusual ride.
OP
mowin
Silver Member
I agree the pull diesels have is exhilarating, but there more than that in deciding what truck is best for ones needs. I loved my diesels. My '01 7.3 ford was great, except for the tranny. My 07 lmm dmax would pull just about anything I think. But I do frequent short low speed trips which the dpf system didnt like. Ended up costing me several hundred dollars three different times to service the dpf system. Yes I could have deleted the dpf, but at the expence of my powertrain warranty.
If I towed heavy frequently, the diesel would be a smart choice. I belive the emissions system ruined the reliability of the diesels.
handirifle
Veteran Member
In the short run, maybe, Ford took a terrible beating from them (aka 6.0), but honestly Dodge and GM just kept humming, I think. They are coming back stronger, with mileage coming close to before emissions, and I have to admit, cleaner than before. I know some like the "smoke" but personally that kept me from diesels more than anything was the smoke and smell.
Gas engine went through the exact same process in the 70-80's, and are coming around stronger and faster than before and getting better mileage to boot.
Diesels will only get better. Several companies are producing engines that meet EPA standards without urea systems, already, and it's only a matter of time before they all do. If the EPA will back off it's goal of eliminating diesels from the market, the free market engineers will make gas engines a thing of the past. All one has to do is look at the numbers. If I am not mistaken, there is some 40 cars available in the 2014 market, in the US with diesel options. Reaching peak torque at half the RPM, equals better pulling (for passengers and loads) and higher MPG.
The way I feel right now, when the 2005 Honda we are driving meets its time to go, it will be replaced with a diesel. When a majority of the market wants diesel, then prices will fall in line. To me, it's the same as when unleaded gas came along, except this time it will be consumers demanding it instead of the government. From what I have read, diesels actually have the potential to be cleaner than gas engines, PLUS diesel fuel is safer to transport and store, due to the fact that is does not ignite as easily as gasoline.
It took me quite a while to convert my thinking, but now that I have, I see them as the future, in internal combustion. No longer are diesels the slow, smelly, lumbering engines going up hills at half the speeds of everyone else. It's like comparing a Shetland pony to a Clydesdale (that easts like a Shetland). Both are 1 horse power, but one can do a LOT more work.
Gas engine went through the exact same process in the 70-80's, and are coming around stronger and faster than before and getting better mileage to boot.
Diesels will only get better. Several companies are producing engines that meet EPA standards without urea systems, already, and it's only a matter of time before they all do. If the EPA will back off it's goal of eliminating diesels from the market, the free market engineers will make gas engines a thing of the past. All one has to do is look at the numbers. If I am not mistaken, there is some 40 cars available in the 2014 market, in the US with diesel options. Reaching peak torque at half the RPM, equals better pulling (for passengers and loads) and higher MPG.
The way I feel right now, when the 2005 Honda we are driving meets its time to go, it will be replaced with a diesel. When a majority of the market wants diesel, then prices will fall in line. To me, it's the same as when unleaded gas came along, except this time it will be consumers demanding it instead of the government. From what I have read, diesels actually have the potential to be cleaner than gas engines, PLUS diesel fuel is safer to transport and store, due to the fact that is does not ignite as easily as gasoline.
It took me quite a while to convert my thinking, but now that I have, I see them as the future, in internal combustion. No longer are diesels the slow, smelly, lumbering engines going up hills at half the speeds of everyone else. It's like comparing a Shetland pony to a Clydesdale (that easts like a Shetland). Both are 1 horse power, but one can do a LOT more work.
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