Radiator Repair Question

[coosa]

I knew they didn't look right so I checked my Cooling Sys. Dia. and Hoyes Ym2000 Dia. and went out and checked mine. Your bolts are upside down. Studs or threads pointing down. Tighten the first nut then the 2nd. will lock it. With those studs sticking up that radiator may stand a chance of not getting damaged. May need to use shorter bolts. If you can't get them turned around. Washer it up more to make sure the bot doesn't hit the Radiator.?

Carey, I thought they were upside down too at first, but its impossible to put them in from above. There isn't enough clearance to put them in from above. And there were no nuts on the cap screws. The radiator bracket is threaded and the cap screws go in from the bottom. This is the way it came, and its really the only way to make it work. Here is a pic of the top of the cap screws as they are now. You can see there is plenty of clearance now, and also can probably tell its impossible to get those cap screws to fit in from the top:



The problem I see with this system is that the radiator is tightened against the shock absorbers and they compress as it as tightened. I can see where the original system was better. All you had to do was get it reasonably tight and the double nuts would keep it from coming loose. The way I have it, it depends on the lock washers and it looks like they could eventually loosen due to the deterioration of the shock absorbers.

I believe it would stay in there like it is, but I gotta go to town anyway so I will look for a stud bolt and change it to original system if I can find the parts. Finding a metric bolt that will fit those threads may be a challenge in my little town. I can't understand why Fredricks rigged it this way. Those cap screws were very loose when I removed them; only a little more than hand tight.

 

[coosa]

You should be good with the extra washers and you understand what we are saying. You just want t make sure that the bolts does not hit the Radiator as best you can.

Seeing that the bolts were about to hit the radiator and it wasn't even tight is what caused me to ask about this. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I could tell that was a disaster about to happen if I had just kept tightening it down. Thanks again to you guys for figuring out I don't have the original system. I've installed exactly 3 tractor radiators in my life, but now that I think about it I'm almost certain the other 2 had stud bolts that went thru the shock absorbers from the top. I was really surprised at how easily this radiator came off.

 

[Ford850]

For insurance, you could add a nut to the end of the bolt to tighten as a jam nut. Get a nut to fit the bolt, and when you get the bolt threaded up through the radiator threads a bit, add the jam nut. Then tighten the bolt until it is snug and finally finish tightening the jam nut down on the bolt, down against the radiator base. You'll probably need to thread the nut down on the bolt as you tighten the bolt so you don't push it up into the radiator. That would allow you to lock that bolt in place instead of relying on the lock washers. While you're buying a couple nuts, you might check for a shorter bolt to avoid the need for the washers.

 

[winston1]

Ford850's suggestion will work, main thing is to stop vibration from allowing the bolts to loosen and fall out.

 

[careyo63]

It quit raining for awhile so I was able to see just how it's done. It's just a threaded stud tacked in. If you can't find a stud the correct size cut the head off the bolt you have and use Loctite. And if your worried it still may vibrate out you can use 2 nuts also. One on each side of the Radiator the mount. Then use 2 nuts to lock it down. So a hacksaw,2 bolts you have and 8 nuts. If you can't find some Loctite and It's not going to come out........

 

[coosa]

Thanks for all the advice. I was actually looking for the parts to do what Ford850 suggested. The 2 nuts on bottom won't do much unless the stud bolt is locked in place someway and I thought a slim nut would be easiest fix since I thought I'd have to pull everything off again to weld the stud bolts; I didn't think of locktite. As expected, I couldn't find a stud bolt but did find longer bolts that would work. I put the 2 nuts close to the end and held a nut in place on top and installed it the way he described. But the nut was so thick that I had the same issue as before; the radiator was almost touching it and I didn't like the setup. It would work well with a thinner nut, but I didn't have one

I snugged it all tight and put everything back together and added the coolant and fired it up. I found I had the clamp for the bottom hose on backwards and the fan blades were clipping the top of the clamp screw.

It was getting dark so I quit for the day. This was just my inexperience and ignorance; I didn't realize the tolerance was that close. Even with the clamp on correctly so that the screw is on the side, the fan blades come very close to that hose.

All I wanted to do was change the oil.

If I had this much trouble with the oil change, I'm pretty sure it will never crank again after I replace the fuel filter.

Thanks again for all the help. At least I understand how it's supposed to fit together now.

 

[California]

THEN DON'T TOUCH THE FUEL FILTER!!!



Really, these fuel filters are good for several years unless you see debris or water in the bowl. Just leave it for later.

 

[coosa]

THEN DON'T TOUCH THE FUEL FILTER!!!



Really, these fuel filters are good for several years unless you see debris or water in the bowl. Just leave it for later.

I think that is really, really good advice.

With the losing streak I've been on, I think I will just put it back together and wait until spring to do any more maintenance. I was planning to change fuel filter, hyd fluid and front gear oil, in addition to fixing that bracket that caused all of this. I'm gonna try to get it running in the morning and put it in the shed and forget all of that.

And next time I need an oil change, I'm gonna just drive the tractor to town and pull into our local express oil and test their promise of doing any oil change in 15 minutes.

 

[clemsonfor]

The small line from the radiator, and another from the block, go to the drain valve that will empty both, to protect both from freezing. These have some Old School holdovers, the manual for YM240 (same age) mentions ditch water isn't the best choice for refilling it in the spring after draining it for the winter. Also describes running with no battery at all, and a few other features to serve what some real old geezers expected back in the day.

I thought of a couple more Old School features from the 70's Yanmar Manual:

Scrape out the injectors using only mutton tallow on a wooden stick. (yes really!)

Change the oil filter every 3 or so oil changes, more often if operating in dust. (Rice paddies don't have dust).

Fuel to have no more than a tablespoon (approximately) of debris and water per tankful. If more, keep an eye on the fuel filter.

There are probably a few more features from a bygone era but that double radiator/engine drain is one that's still useful.

That's just a valve to drain the radiator and block in one shot. It should not come out and should be soldered back in place. And that is not rust coming through , just paint wearing off the copper radiator.

 

[normde2001]

Obviously someone replaced the radiator and discarded the studs with the old radiator before realizing they were needed for the new one.

 

[coosa]

I hate reading a thread like this and then the OP never comes back to tell what happened. I don't wanta be that guy after you folks have helped me so much, so here is what I hope is the final chapter to this story of mechanical incompetence.

I got up this morning and decided that I would always wonder about the radiator if I didn't fix it the way its supposed to be. So I took Carey's advice above:

>>>It's just a threaded stud tacked in. If you can't find a stud the correct size cut the head off the bolt you have and use Loctite. <<<<

I don't have any Loctite at home, so I decided to go a step further and try to make it exactly like the diagram shown earlier in this thread that comes from the Hoye site. I sawed off the heads of the bolts I bought yesterday and essentially made them into stud bolts. Then I went by a friend's welding shop and got him to tack them into place with an arc welder. That made it work the same as original equipment. I could easily get 2 nuts on them below, and in fact was paranoid enough that I used a nylon lock nut for the 2nd one. Some of my hose connections might fail, but this radiator ain't gonna fall off the tractor.

I got it all put back together and worked it on the driveway for about an hour and everything works like new. Clemson, thanks for that info, but I had figured out it was a new radiator after I got it out. I suspect it must be an aftermarket since it didn't come with stud bolts, but its for sure new. I suspect that's the reason Fredricks put it together like they did, with 2 bolts coming from the underside. They had to have originally been tighter than I thought they were. I found that even after I turned the bottom hose clamp around properly, the radiator had to be tightened down a lot to get the fan blades to clear that hose. The shock absorbers had to be compressed quite a bit in order to get clearance, so they must have run those bolts in until they were either right against or nearly against the radiator in order for it to work. Maybe its not as big of an issue as I thought, but I feel much better about the tractor knowing its set up according to the original plan.

And I did get to try out that drain since I had put coolant in it yesterday. I let it drain into a clean bucket, then used one of my wife's tea pitchers to pour the coolant back in when I was finished. Obviously, she isn't at home. I replaced the line from the drain to the radiator with one a little more flexible, and changed to the type of clamp that is tightened with a screw. If I don't ever get around to cutting on the bracket, I can drain the coolant when I do an oil change and take the line loose at the drain. That way I won't ever have to put any pressure on the radiator barb that caused all of this. Since I only need to change the oil once a year, I could just change oil and coolant at the same time and leave the bracket as is.

I figure I have about 10 hours of work in this oil change. I'm thinking of setting up my own Express Jiffy Oil Change business and making a lot of money.

Thanks again to all for the help!

 

[clemsonfor]

I think that is really, really good advice.

With the losing streak I've been on, I think I will just put it back together and wait until spring to do any more maintenance. I was planning to change fuel filter, hyd fluid and front gear oil, in addition to fixing that bracket that caused all of this. I'm gonna try to get it running in the morning and put it in the shed and forget all of that.

And next time I need an oil change, I'm gonna just drive the tractor to town and pull into our local express oil and test their promise of doing any oil change in 15 minutes.

if you just got the tractor from Hoye , I don't think you should need to worry about hydro oil or filter or even the fuel filter this year

 

[clemsonfor]

I hate reading a thread like this and then the OP never comes back to tell what happened. I don't wanta be that guy after you folks have helped me so much, so here is what I hope is the final chapter to this story of mechanical incompetence.

I got up this morning and decided that I would always wonder about the radiator if I didn't fix it the way its supposed to be. So I took Carey's advice above:

>>>It's just a threaded stud tacked in. If you can't find a stud the correct size cut the head off the bolt you have and use Loctite. <<<<

I don't have any Loctite at home, so I decided to go a step further and try to make it exactly like the diagram shown earlier in this thread that comes from the Hoye site. I sawed off the heads of the bolts I bought yesterday and essentially made them into stud bolts. Then I went by a friend's welding shop and got him to tack them into place with an arc welder. That made it work the same as original equipment. I could easily get 2 nuts on them below, and in fact was paranoid enough that I used a nylon lock nut for the 2nd one. Some of my hose connections might fail, but this radiator ain't gonna fall off the tractor.

I got it all put back together and worked it on the driveway for about an hour and everything works like new. Clemson, thanks for that info, but I had figured out it was a new radiator after I got it out. I suspect it must be an aftermarket since it didn't come with stud bolts, but its for sure new. I suspect that's the reason Fredricks put it together like they did, with 2 bolts coming from the underside. They had to have originally been tighter than I thought they were. I found that even after I turned the bottom hose clamp around properly, the radiator had to be tightened down a lot to get the fan blades to clear that hose. The shock absorbers had to be compressed quite a bit in order to get clearance, so they must have run those bolts in until they were either right against or nearly against the radiator in order for it to work. Maybe its not as big of an issue as I thought, but I feel much better about the tractor knowing its set up according to the original plan.

And I did get to try out that drain since I had put coolant in it yesterday. I let it drain into a clean bucket, then used one of my wife's tea pitchers to pour the coolant back in when I was finished. Obviously, she isn't at home. I replaced the line from the drain to the radiator with one a little more flexible, and changed to the type of clamp that is tightened with a screw. If I don't ever get around to cutting on the bracket, I can drain the coolant when I do an oil change and take the line loose at the drain. That way I won't ever have to put any pressure on the radiator barb that caused all of this. Since I only need to change the oil once a year, I could just change oil and coolant at the same time and leave the bracket as is.

I figure I have about 10 hours of work in this oil change. I'm thinking of setting up my own Express Jiffy Oil Change business and making a lot of money.

Thanks again to all for the help!

if they snugged them to the radiator it was just a period of time till they rubbed a hole in radiator and mostlikely when it was out of warranty so be glad you found this out now.

And if your seriously used the tea pitcher I would not personally use it for tea, who knows what may not come out of the plastic or whatever. I just use a gallon water jug , cock bottles or usually wash a bucket out or an oil bottle washed out with gas or diesel or something to pour if I am reusing , but usually just a clean bucket and a funnel.

 

[kenmac]

if you just got the tractor from Hoye , I don't think you should need to worry about hydro oil or filter or even the fuel filter this year

I think you mean Fredricks Not hoye LOL

 

[clemsonfor]

yep your right. ha

 

[coosa]

>>>And if your seriously used the tea pitcher I would not personally use it for tea, who knows what may not come out of the plastic or whatever.<<<

She has a bunch of them and we seldom make tea anymore, so I decided it was just in the way and would be perfect for pouring without spilling a drop. It has been relocated to the shed, where it will actually get used. She will never even miss it. I hope.

 

[clemsonfor]

Carey seems like if the other filter was way heavier it was doing a better job catching junk?? Why there was so much dirt that it would be noticeably heavier is kind of strange and not believable that much dirt is present? What's your theory on why it was so heavy?

I know you said it was too restrictive and you theorize it hampered your oil flow.

 

[kenmac]

I don't know about junk in the filter making it heavier, but more, or thicker media in a filter will retain more oil, causing one filter to possibly be heavier than another

 

[careyo63]

Carey seems like if the other filter was way heavier it was doing a better job catching junk?? Why there was so much dirt that it would be noticeably heavier is kind of strange and not believable that much dirt is present? What's your theory on why it was so heavy?

I know you said it was too restrictive and you theorize it hampered your oil flow.

If I recall that is true. But that was @ 25hrs. a change and I felt the larger filter more media would be a big plus when I seen it. Also cost, shipping, Min order Etc.. And I just have it picked up at local Walmart! You seen my 2000 and trust me I cleaned it up "Alot" from after I bought it. Who knows how it was maintained the oil changed Etc.. Trust me it wasn't that great looking. I can say the filters are nowhere near as heavy. Now I average a range of 50-75 Hrs. a year and the oil looks really good!! I always do my Maintenance when I first get out in the spring.