Questions about melting and casting lead.

DocHeb · Nov 5, 2003

I have access to some scrap lead (metal), and I was considering experimenting and making some suitcase weights for my NH TC40D. I would like to make a dozen weights that run ~80 lbs each.

My questions:

How do I melt that much lead at once?
What do I use as a crucible?
What would be a good heat source; how much heat would I need?
What material would you make the molds from?

Taylortractornut · Nov 5, 2003

I cast a little lead and aluminum every now and again. I use my homebuilt forge for both metals and also a propane fish cooker for lead. My crusible is usually a 4inch diameter pipe with 6inches long an end welded in in and a long handle. for bigger pours like a suitcase weight I use a bigger pipe with 2 handles and a fearless friend. We use face masks and long burner gloves. One thing I like to use to get a melt stared is let my crrucibles 1/2 inch plate bottom get red hot drop in 2 or 3 small wheel weights and wait till they poll then do a few more. When the bottom is covered in liquid lead shovel them in. They just seem to melt quiker that way. make sure all the charge is dry to, lead reacts badly with water. For my dlods I use aluminium if I can as it wont stick but alot of times I use regular steel. For the straight edgesI use angle iron or square tubing because if the mold is out of square youll damage that purdy part. Also make sure your mold is pefectly level to. There is a thing call parting sand that goes on it but its not necessary I use an old peice of soap stone and lay it on the side to mark all of the surfaces. Just let the mold cool good and if you mess up put it back in the pot.
just dont get water in the pot or mold, dont breathe and you should be alright.

5030 · Nov 5, 2003

DocHeb:

You can melt lead in a cast iron pot over a propane cooker like you deep fry a turkey in. I'd be careful about exactly what kind of lead you have. Lead from automotive batteries can be deadly from a vapor inhalation standpoint.

As far as casting molds, you live here in Michigan just as I do. I would suggest doing a Google search for metal working clubs in Michigan. I belong to the Metro Detroit Metalworking Club and besides machinists, there are some foundry people familiar with casting. They may be able to help you.

Slamfire · Nov 6, 2003

And don't let any moist objects get into the pot, steam driven molten lead will make you cry!

gsganzer · Nov 6, 2003

I did a job at a cast iron pipe factory and was pretty amazed at the process. The company made everything from cast pipe to huge 4 foot cast T's for municiple sewage pipes. They had some fork lifts hauling crucibles of molten metal and would get some splashing while driving from one part of the plant to the next. If any of the molten metal splashed out and landed into a water puddle, it sounded like a bomb going off (as it vaporized the puddle)! It had to be pretty nerve racking for the forklift drivers on rainy days.

Soundguy · Nov 6, 2003

Ditto on the propane heat source and a cast iron pot. I've done a little hobby lead smelting and casting.

Use steele forms as well as brick or clay.

I know the others have sadi it.. but you can't be too carefull about moisture being introduced to the molten lead... don't let any water drops.. chilled / frozen lead get in the pot. I usually had a side fire with a big flat pan over near my lead pot.. I let the lead get warm over there and it burnt off any mosture residue that was on it.. much safer that way.. then I used a fireplace ash shovel to add the lead to the pot... safely away from splashes and steam explosions.. etc.

Be safe.

Soundguy

GaryM · Nov 6, 2003

I don't know if it would work with something as large as a suitcase weight, but when I needed lead weights for ballast on model airplanes we made molds out of balsa wood. It charred and smoked for the first weight poured, but after that it worked fine. Didn't need to put any angle on the mold because the lead shrinks a little as it cooled.

Now these weights were only about 5"x1"x 1/2", but I was suprised the first time I saaw it done.

wroughtn_harv · Nov 7, 2003

Back in the old days telephone cable came with a lead outer sheath. Our closures were made of lead also. In fact I strongly suspect what made welding easier for me was my working lead first.

What the telephone and all the other industries associated with the use of lead have found is it sheds particles that get into the air and mess up kids.

Sooooooooooo, if you're going to mess with the stuff make sure your kids ain't around. And that they ain't around when you come in after doing it and before you get those contaminated clothes into the washer.

Your kids need every bit of brain power they're born with to get through this world. Don't let an interesting project for you be a source of harm for them. Be careful.

This happens when the lead is disturbed. So just handling it can get dust on you and from you into your child's body.

GaryM · Nov 7, 2003

Yeah Harve! Lead poisoning is bad. When I melted lead I did it in a pot on a camp stove in the garage with the door open. But I seem to recall friends having a kit to melt lead and cast toy soldiers. This was done as a hobby by kids in the 12-15 year range. Of course it was back in the 50's when we were less aware of some dangers. I used to build plastic models using carbon tetrachloride as a solvent. Remenber the pump type fire extinguishers that trucks had? Filled with Carbon Tet. They even sold small models for home use that were filled with it.

higgy · Nov 7, 2003

Carbon tet was every where. I used it to degrease the shop floor where I worked in highschool. Heck if you were an autoshop student you darn near washed with it.

There are a lot of good references on the web for the amature caster, many with great safety info. If you read the thread on waste oil heaters from the last few days there are links to burners which are for casting.

Have a look, be carful, make sure the mold is not cold.

I have been casting brass/bronze and other aloys with out a problem, but safety is always a concern.

BubbaJr · Nov 7, 2003

One thing popped into my head when I read your post. Are you going to make the handle part (where it attaches to the tractor) out of steel of another stronger metal? Lead is soft enough that it will break and /or deform enough to come apart if the handle is lead also. If you were going to use it on something stationary I don't think you would have any problems, but on a tractor with all the bouncing around on rough ground, I think it would come apart rather quickly.
Good Luck.

DocHeb · Nov 7, 2003

Yes, I was thinking of casting the lead around a piece of re-rod or 1/2" galvanized pipe.

wroughtn_harv · Nov 7, 2003

Just think how smart you'd be now if you hadn't been exposed to such toxic substances Gary? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The point that I wanted to make was that handling it was in itself worse than cooking it according to the information I was given. And the one's most susceptible to harm from exposure is young children.

One of the things that I now find interesting about what happened in the telco world when it came out that handling the lead was toxic was how it was explained to us. We were lead (pun intended for those exposed too much too long too often) to believe it wasn't management's fault that we were exposed but that it was the cry baby's at the EPA who were making a mountain out of a mole hill.

As for carbon tet, we used it by the gallon. We also bathed in silica dust drying manholes prior to opening paper insulated cable.

We didn't know any better, sorta like the guys like my uncle who passed away two years from a very bad version of asbestosis. Thirty plus years before he'd worked in a power plant and didn't know the dust floating in the air would take his life painfully and long before his time.

Bird · Nov 7, 2003

( We didn't know any better )

And haven't you ever used mercury with your bare hands to rub on silver coins and make them look shiny and new (just for a very short time, of course)? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

avorancher · Nov 7, 2003

When young, I worked as a printer's assistant (devil) and melted lead every Monday for the typesetters. If I remember correctly, we threw in some nickel for strength and beeswax to help mold it. I still remember the stink. I guess that was a way to keep us young guys from keeping smarter than the older operators.

Of course, we also used so much alcohol in the printing process that nobody parked near the ventilization fan because it would eat the paint off our cars... we never thought about what it was doing to us inside the building.

Carbon Tet, mercury, asbestos, lead...wonder what we're doing now that they'll discover later?

Junkman · Nov 7, 2003

( When young, I worked as a printer's assistant (devil) and melted lead every Monday for the typesetters. )

Correction....... you would have been melting Linotype .... a lead based alloy that was used in the machines that would make the type for printing newspapers. It had sort of a pigs foot configuration at one end and would hang down in a melting pot on the side of the machine. I know, because my dad was a smelter of lead, solder, Linotype, and the other white metals and I grew up around the furnaces from a very early age. Guess that the handling and smelling of the molten product didn't damage me too much.... I can still read, wright, and do arithmetic......

Slamfire · Nov 8, 2003

Yes and then worked with some Swedes who worked in the tanks of converter equipment that would be full of mercury. We'd take a detector and make readings at prescribed spots around the station. If you scuffed your feet you could elevate the reading to whatever level you needed to shut down the plant. The Swedes said that if you got away from it when your teeth got loose, that all mercury poisioning was reversable.
Then there were the pcbs which we used to collect in little tin cups were transformers, etc. were leaking. And wipe the floor with rags, then go eat lunch. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Soundguy · Nov 8, 2003

Gotta love the poly chlorinated byphenols...

Anothe rthought crossed my mind while sanding down yet another old rusty antique tractor out in the barn today... lead paint.. I had never thought about it before... but that little niosh resporator just doesn't seem adequate now that that little thought popped into my head...

Soundguy

Egon · Nov 8, 2003

Bird:

Penny dimes or nickels.

Egon

5030 · Nov 8, 2003

Junkman:

Me thinks you have lead poisoning, just like Bird and most other "old" posters on this thread, the spelling is atrocious!! Must be too many dead brain cells from carbon tetrachloride fumes as well as asbestos and lead.

Isn't that what caused the downfall of the Roman Empire? Didn't the Romans use lead water pipes?? I think it lead to impotence??

Like the old saying goes....."you can park on the driveway but you can't park on the parkway"

I wonder how many "latter day" Romans are suffering from lead poisoning?? I bet there are quite a few homes that have lead sweated joints in their copper plumbing.