Toplink Question on a hydraulic top link???

[kubotabilly]

I would like to add a hydraulic top link on my Kubota L3430. How do I know what length and diameter cylinder to purchase

Bill

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Carter sells just what you're looking for. Carter & Carter Machinery, Hay Equipment Headquarters

 

[JerryG]

Gary,
I finely gave up on C&C and ordered from somewhere else yesterday. I would like to get a side link from them if they ever get them in. If they don't by spring, I will just make one.

KB,
If I am not mistaken, your 3430 needs a cylinder that is 18" closed and about a 10" stroke. A 2" diameter should be big enough.

 

[Henro]

In addition to Gary's reply, check the lenght of your manual top link for max and min lenght. This will tell you what you need as far as center-center distance between the ball ends of the hydraulic cylinder. The minimum measurement tells you how short the cylinder has to be, and the difference between the two measurements tells you the stroke you need.

As far as diameter of the hydraulic cylinder, a larger diameter cylinder will, all things considered, give you more control of movement. This is because the volumm is larger and it takes more flow to get a given amount of movement. If the cylinder is small in diameter, it will move more quickly than one that is larger will. In some cases this causes jerky movement or lack of control to some degree.

On my smaller B2910 Kubota I used 2.5 inch diameter on my top link and 2.75 on my tilt cylinders. This is because of availability at a resonable cost at the time. I am happy with this choice and can feather the movement and have no jerkyness at all.

Hope this helps...

 

[kubotabilly]

Thanks guys,

Gary, I'll probably get my cylinder from Surplus Center. I just got a flyer from them and they have swivel ball end cylinders at a great price.

Jerry,
Thanks for the info. My toplink is 19 1/2" closed and 32" open. Based on those measurements, I will probably get the cylinder with a retracted length of 19 1/2" and a stroke of 12". That should work.

Henro,
I know what you mean about the diameter. The 2" dia. cylinder that I installed on my grapple was really fast, so I put a restrictor in the line and it works great now.
I see that C&C use a 2" dia. cylinder for the top link is this substantial or would you go with a beefier 2.5" dia cylinder??? I also noticed that there is no check valve on the Surplus Center cylinder like the one from C&C has, could one be added???

Bill

 

[MadReferee]

I see that C&C use a 2" dia. cylinder for the top link is this substantial or would you go with a beefier 2.5" dia cylinder??? I also noticed that there is no check valve on the Surplus Center cylinder like the one from C&C has, could one be added???

A 2" diameter cylinder bore (the rod will be about 1" or 1.25") is pretty much standard for a CUT and will work just fine. Anything larger is simply overkill for a top link application. If you want ease of feathering use 1/4" hoses.

The double pilot operated check valves that are on the CCM cylinders are not available here in the USA. You can find some DPOCV's that have specs that are close but they are rather large and don't lend themselves to be easily attached and plumbed. However, some people have done it so have at it. Do a search here on TBN and you will find several threads describing how it was done.

It's too bad CCM is unable to get additional supplies of those foreign made cylinders as they were the perfect fit for our tractors. I wonder what the real problem is? Availability or simply the financial investment needed to get them? Maybe Mark can fill us in.

 

[JerryG]

Jerry,
Thanks for the info. My toplink is 19 1/2" closed and 32" open. Based on those measurements, I will probably get the cylinder with a retracted length of 19 1/2" and a stroke of 12". That should work.

Sounds like that will work. I think that Surplus has one of those cylinders that is 19.5". I ordered a ball-end cylinder from the Surplus Center just a couple of days ago.

 

[HayDR]

A consistent quality supply is what we want and we are not going to sell a substandard product because there is no future in selling those products. After getting a shipment of top-links from a new supplier last spring the supplier just canceled our second shipment and did not tell us until they were 60 days late. When this happened we were put into a situation of purchasing with other European parts companies. The problem is that most of the 3 point linkage parts in Europe are CAT 2, where 80% of the market in the USA is CAT 1. CAT 2 stuff is relative easy to get. So we were only able to secure a very limited supply of CAT 1 products. Realize that compact tractors and their uses in the USA do not really exist any where else in the world. So we can not go to the McDonald's drive-up window and order product off the shelf that fits the USA market demand so they must be custom manufactured for our market.

To offer a good product at a good price we have to be smart in how we purchase and manufacture products. Yes we can get cheaper and lower quality cylinders from Asia. The question is will these cheaper cylinders live in a commercial environment? We have sold a few and after continued use our commercial customers said they were not lasting like they should. For the average weekender, these cylinders will likely give them acceptable service but with no double piloted check valves. The double piloted check valves and the quality of the cylinder and a competitive price is our market niche.

I just got back from Europe and talked with many of the hydraulic parts and component manufacturers and have placed some new orders. Price is always important but so is quality. So we have to find the correct mix for our commercial customers first and our weekend consumer customers will know they are getting a top quality product at a good price. Our first shipments are due by Feb 07. We apologize for the delays but these orders have been confirmed and are from solid suppliers.

Can someone with the proper skills of fabrication make their own system? Yes, you may save a few $$$ and go purchase a tie-rod or surplus cylinder from some and modify it to work on your tractor. There is the question of liability as well what is the quality of the hydraulic components and what service will they provide? CCM is not about making "one of" special products because our pricing structure would require much higher profit margins. CCM chooses to offer OEM quality hydraulic components like you would see on the premium brand tractors sold in the USA. This means we are not going to have the lowest price in the industry. We will have the features that the commercial customers desire. We need to have competitive prices on high quality products or we will not sell those products.

Thank you for your support.
Mark Carter

 

[MadReferee]

Thanks Mark. I am sure the orders will start rolling in. I just hope that you have ordered enough.

 

[JerryG]

Thanks Mark for letting us know what is going on. I for one was sure that there had to be a good reason for the product not being supplied.

I would like to know if you have placed orders for the side links? Once again, thank you.

 

[HayDR]

Thanks Mark for letting us know what is going on. I for one was sure that there had to be a good reason for the product not being supplied.

I would like to know if you have placed orders for the side links? Once again, thank you.

Yes, I have ordered the side links. How does you side link mount at the top? Clevis or ball? What measurment is the fixed side link ?

 

[JerryG]

Yes, I have ordered the side links. How does you side link mount at the top? Clevis or ball? What measurment is the fixed side link ?

Hi, Mark. They say a picture is worth a thousand so here is a picture of the link with dimensions. I didn’t know what kind of joints you carry, so I didn’t know how you needed it measured. The fixed link is 16.25" center to center.

 

[HayDR]

Hi, Mark. They say a picture is worth a thousand so here is a picture of the link with dimensions. I didn’t know what kind of joints you carry, so I didn’t know how you needed it measured. The fixed link is 16.25" center to center.

You are better off showing the picture of the fixed side. I need a straight on picture of the fixed link. Realize that you will be adjusting against the fixed link. Most of the side-links I have will have 5" of stroke. The fixed measurement 16.25" is short. I may have some capable of 14.5 to 19" for the sub-compacts and 16"-21". It is no problem to go longer but the shortest thing I'll have will be 14.5".

 

[3RRL]

Jerry,
Just a thought...
Consider moving the adjustable link to the fixed link side for added tilt capabilities. Then get a hydraulic side link with the most stroke so that it allows you to position the fixed link (now your movable one) for optimum tilt either way in case you need it. It would be almost like having 2 hydraulic side links, except one is manual.

 

[JerryG]

Here is the fixed link. It is 16.25" center to center. The bottom hole that I don't use is 17.25". I could live with that.

 

[JerryG]

Jerry,
Just a thought...
Consider moving the adjustable link to the fixed link side for added tilt capabilities. Then get a hydraulic side link with the most stroke so that it allows you to position the fixed link (now your movable one) for optimum tilt either way in case you need it. It would be almost like having 2 hydraulic side links, except one is manual.

I was planning to put the adjustable link on the fixed side. I don’t think that I want to mess with the hydraulics to put a cylinder on both sides or I would do that.

 

[JerryG]

Mark,
If that last picture doesn't show enough, let me know.

 

[HayDR]

How big is the pin going through the ball on the top of the side-link?

 

[JerryG]

It's 22mm or .866".

 

[dieselmotorhead]

I ended up building my own side link hydraulics. The domestic valves are huge. I had to mount it remotely. A rats nest of hoses. Between the parker valve and the hoses it was more money than the cylinder. The worst part is the cracking pressure? is not high enough?, I still have leakdown. Might be talking to ccm on monday.