Question for electricians

[John_Mc]

I used 100 ULL avgas in it, as that stores well and doesn't kill the carb with ethanol. Now the Nazifornia gummint says I can't but that do to the lead in it, a very small amount but enough to dash our governor's fantasy of a perfect world.
We have solar with backup batteries now, so don't need the genny for most outages now. It can plug into our system to provide power/charge batteries if needed so I'm hanging on to it.

I’m a pilot (and former flight instructor). I also used to work for a company that heat treated steel wire by running it through molten lead. For safety reasons, we were forced to learn a lot about lead and its effects on humans. It was mandatory that those working in that heat treating department take a shower before going home. They were also provided company paid uniforms which did not go home with them to avoid them contaminating their homes with lead.

100LL avgas is only “low” in lead as compared to the older 100 octane avgas. The lead content is significantly higher than the older leaded auto fuels. The tetraethyl lead in 100LL is a potent neurotoxin and can cause permanent damage in kids, as their brain is still developing.

I run 100LL in my plane because I have to. I will not run it in anything else. I run non-ethanol auto gas in my generator and all small engines. With a fuel stabilizer, I’ve not had issues with stale gas.

 

[ericm979]

Non ethanol gas is hard to find here and expensive if you do find it. I've always run normal E10 and not had a problem. But it doesn't get cold enough here for phase separation to be an issue, and I store my gas in sealed containers that would have less condensation than an unsealed one, especially made of metal.

 

[rontaki]

The avgas was only slightly more expensive than pump gas. I cannot see myself buying gas at $30/gallon, so now i hope the additives work to keep my small motors running, or China gets my money for replacement carburetors and disposable tools.

 

[grsthegreat]

What do the last 3 have to do with the OP’S Question

 

[WinterDeere]

What do the last 3 have to do with the OP’S Question

About as much as the post you made immediately before this, about pre-mix gas for string trimmers, in a thread on credit card acceptance.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/whats-the-real-cost-of-accepting-credit-cards-for-a-busniess.587333/post-7194466

 

[grsthegreat]

About as much as the post you made immediately before this, about pre-mix gas for string trimmers, in a thread on credit card acceptance.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/whats-the-real-cost-of-accepting-credit-cards-for-a-busniess.587333/post-7194466

That was a direct response to his statement. Id like to know if they make a 4 stroke string trimmer that does t need oil. Id like to get one of those if they do. Ive never seen one.

 

[WranglerX]

That was a direct response to his statement. Id like to know if they make a 4 stroke string trimmer that does t need oil. Id like to get one of those if they do. Ive never seen one.

I have a STIHL FS90 which is a 4 stroke and it uses same 2 stroke mix as my chainsaws.... In a sense it does not need oil and like convection B&S or Honda 4 stroke engines...

 

[grsthegreat]

I have a STIHL FS90 which is a 4 stroke and it uses same 2 stroke mix as my chainsaws.... In a sense if does not need oil and like convection B&S or Honda 4 stroke engines...

Hmm, than why the 2 stroke oil? Ive heard of this before…..confusing

 

[ultrarunner]

Revolutionary 4-MIX™ Technology

STIHL provides professional users with the ideal outdoor power equipment solution, offering all the benefits of two-stroke and four-stroke engine technologies combined.

www.stihlproline.ca

Maybe an end run around 2-Stroke bans?

 

[LittleBill21]

it has nothing to do with THD for ups's hating the generator, its because they expect the hertz to stay within .5hz, non inverter models tend to drift around 1 to 2 hz depending on load, this is what causes them to trip over and over.

computers can give 2 sh*ts about thd quality they uses switching power supplies.

 

[John_Mc]

What do the last 3 have to do with the OP’S Question

Topic drift is a way of life on TBN.

 

[grsthegreat]

it has nothing to do with THD for ups's hating the generator, its because they expect the hertz to stay within .5hz, non inverter models tend to drift around 1 to 2 hz depending on load, this is what causes them to trip over and over.

computers can give 2 sh*ts about thd quality they uses switching power supplies.

Even my generac standby has the frequency float more than 0.5hz, and my ups devices can care less. But i honestly have no idea what my UPS devices are monitoring that affects their operation. But im sure generators that output truer power with lower THD will also have better electronics and such ( like voltage regulators) which all contribute to better operation.

No 2 pole or 4 pole generator will give absolutely pure 60 hz. Inverter units are way better at this.

 

[LittleBill21]

Even my generac standby has the frequency float more than 0.5hz, and my ups devices can care less. But i honestly have no idea what my UPS devices are monitoring that affects their operation. But im sure generators that output truer power with lower THD will also have better electronics and such ( like voltage regulators) which all contribute to better operation.

No 2 pole or 4 pole generator will give absolutely pure 60 hz. Inverter units are way better at this.

is the generac mechanical or electronic governor? I never played with a generac, inverter units don't move off 60hz.

I have 13 ups's, i have only seen inverter models not cause grief. That said this is based on cheap consumer ups's they make ups's that are generator tolerant in commercial settings. some of the apc units have sensitivity settings as well.

 

[Jimbo913]

Topic drift is a way of life on TBN.

Can you wire in something like this so you can monitor from inside?

 

[grsthegreat]

is the generac mechanical or electronic governor? I never played with a generac, inverter units don't move off 60hz.

I have 13 ups's, i have only seen inverter models not cause grief. That said this is based on cheap consumer ups's they make ups's that are generator tolerant in commercial settings. some of the apc units have sensitivity settings as well.

Larger standbys use electronic stepper motor for control, but still not rock steady on frequency.

 

[rontaki]

The THD issue has to do with excess heat being created in electronic parts, due to the non-sinusoidal waveform, I have read. It all feels the same to me when it bites.

 

[John_Mc]

The THD issue has to do with excess heat being created in electronic parts, due to the non-sinusoidal waveform, I have read. It all feels the same to me when it bites.

From what I've heard, that's at least part of the issue. Excess heat can shorten the life of electronic components. If it gets hot enough, it can fry them in short order, but temperatures short of that can still shorten the life, and from waht I understand, it can be a cumulative effect: repeated slight overheating will eventually kill some electronics.

The other issue is that some electronics simply will not function if the power is too "dirty". I don't know if this is a safety thing that is built in to protect them or if the poor power just causes a malfunction. I've run in to two heating systems that had issues like this. One simply would not function when connected to a generator with known dirty power (the generator rating, when we were eventually able to find it was 24% THD). The other control system would not start up on the owner's generator (don't recall the brand of generator or it's THD), but it was OK if it was started up on cleaner power and then switched over to a generator. Both systems ran fine on my generator. Both owners eventually switched to a better generator so they could run their heating systems with it in an emergency.

 

[WinterDeere]

it can be a cumulative effect: repeated slight overheating will eventually kill some electronics.

See Arrhenius plots of failure due to electromigration, if you're interested in this. Although not really even the primary failure mechanism in most circuits, this is most often used to predict their MTTF (mean time to failure). And yes, it's a direct 1/log(T) relation to operating junction temperature of the transistors.

In most classic electronics, it's actually the electrolytic (or dreaded tantalum) capacitors that fail, way before the transistors. But new ceramics have become available over the last few decades that have allowed the elimination of more and more electrolytic capacitors.

The other issue is that some electronics simply will not function if the power is too "dirty". I don't know if this is a safety thing that is built in to protect them or if the poor power just causes a malfunction.

I would expect that if THD is claimed as a problem, it's because with high THD there is much energy contained in frequency components other than 60 Hz. A circuit designed to operate on 60 Hz is usually going to have large filter components designed to cut out lower frequencies (transients) and higher frequencies (intermodulations / spurs, and harmonics), and the more power that the generator puts into these non-60 Hz components, the more energy these filter circuits must dissipate = heat. Of course, these are usually just made of cheap capacitors and inductors, even transients can be removed downstream of DC conversion by a few large capacitors.

In absence of these filter circuits, on the power supply portion of the electronic device, then you need to consider how susceptible the downstream circuitry is to these artifacts. Again there, things like transients and spurs bleeding thru can cause additional heating or unwanted behavior.

 

[Hoho223]

Same. I run the whole house on a 7 kW portable, including 3/4 hp well pump, by shutting off breakers to things like AC compressors, air compressor, pool heater, etc.

The primary trouble I have with the portables is power quality, as my Lutron low-volt lighting goes absolutely nuts (flickering wildly), and my small fleet of computer UPS's constantly squawk about voltage or frequency variations.

For those switching from portable to standby, did you notice a big difference in power quality, and how things like UPS's respond to it?

I'm not overly taxing the portable, voltage is not dropping because of overload, so that's not the trouble here. I honestly wonder if the frequency variation may be causing more trouble than the voltage variation, as the regulation seems reasonably good.

I should mention that I had to have the stator rewound. I never had any flickering lights, we watched TV, the hot tub was shut off. Not sure of well pump size but the well is 287 feet deep but was not home when pump was placed…so at least a 3/4 hp pump.

 

[WinterDeere]

…so at least a 3/4 hp pump.

Probably even bigger than that, at your depth. I think they usually recommend over 1.5 hp when going that deep, and usually more than that if you want reasonable pressure and flow rate.

I'm no expert, just going off the graphs I see online. But I think 2hp delivers about 13 gpm at 400 feet, and lands pretty neatly in the sweet spot for best efficiency.