puncture resistance of ag vs ind tires

[LouNY]

Ha, ha - thank goodness for different ideas and alternate methods - right Lou.

Very true, just finished looking at the long range forecasts and contemplating when to drag the chains out of the barrel and mount them up.
Hate to do it too early but it's nice to do it in dry and warmer weather rather then in a snow storm. :laughing:

 

[oosik]

Yuck - chains. I used them on my first tractor - Ford 1700 4WD. They were excessively heavy - tough to get mounted just right and made the little Ford ride like a COB. They were V-bar and when mounted on all four wheels the little tractor could climb right up the side of a building.

Most fortunately - the Kubota is heavy enough - 10,100 pounds - that I've never needed chains. I don't get massive snow depths nor drifting here. Most I've ever had - a total winters accumulation depth of 32". And that is the MOST ever in 37 years out here. Normal will be 14" to 20".

I always waited until its was colder than a witches tit and we usually had a foot on the ground with more coming. That probably on the reasons I dislike chains. No heated barn or garage to install chains here.

 

[ovrszd]

And after all my time I've come to the conclusion that bolted on weight is better then liquid in tires.
Also I have no use for R4 tires, if R1's are not appropriate go with turfs add chains for when traction is needed.
Different ideas for different people.

How about cost difference between liquid and cast weights?

 

[ovrszd]

In regards to chains. Weight of the vehicle has the opposite effect as imagined. When ground conditions warrant chains this becomes more critical with a heavier vehicle. Chains are for times when there is minimal ground surface to provide traction. This is most needed when stopping or changing direction. Both are more complicated with a heavier vehicle.

 

[Diggin It]

I can lift just about 3200 pounds with the grapple. Anything over 2500 pounds NEVER get over 6" off the ground -

How do you know the weight? Straight question. Do you estimate, or is there a scale display on the dash?

 

[oosik]

overszd - I asked the local Kubota dealer about the cost of dealer installed RimGuard on a brand new tractor like my M6040 I purchased in 2009. He said - well, I can sure give you todays price but nine years ago - figure $3 a gallon, installed. I've got 67 gallons per tire - 134 gallons - $400 dollars for the RimGuard that adds 1550 pounds of ballast.

Diggin it - how do I know the weight of the logs I lift and the big 'ol boulders. Well - on the web there are log weight charts. Enter species - Ponderosa pine - enter average log diameter - butt = 38 -- top = 36 average log diameter = 37" length = 10' Log chart says - - 3260 pounds I would not lift this one - cut in half and handle it that way.

Rocks are a bit more difficult to figure - there are charts on the internet - rock weight charts. But my rocks - mainly - look to me to be a mix of material. Some granite, some basalt and many times something swirled thru that looks like chocolate ice cream. My rocks are all round or oval or oblong. So I do rocks like I do logs - distance around the biggest way, distance around the smaller way. Look at the rock chart and try my best to figure it out.

Before I had my farm wagon I had to transport the logs and rocks quite a distance. Many were more than a mile. Now I put them in the farm wagon and pull them home.

Safety is my motivating force here - and I REALLY have no desire to break anything.

 

[LouNY]

How about cost difference between liquid and cast weights?

Iron has a higher initial cost, it has a lower maintenance cost, The ride on rough fields is better with iron, the pull and power applied to the ground is better with iron especially at faster speeds (5-10mph). Road hauling is better with iron compared to liquid. Repair time there is no comparison, I can have a flat broken down and a tube repaired and be back in service before the left over fluid fill has been recovered, and if it was tubeless I can be back at work before the pump and barrels are ready to be used.

As far as chains go for my winter use on my driveway alone without chains my 11,000 pound tractor would be on its side and over the banks, no if's an's or but's.
As soon as a tire slips and spins on wet heavy snow on hills you are done.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I purchased 12 ply industrial rears for my 4610 su for the added puncture resistance. They were loaded and worked great. I personally like AG's better but industrials can be had in heavier plys. I actually got 18 ply aircraft tires for the fronts. Life was good.

Gensco sells heavy plied AG's. That would be an option for you on a used tractor. Industrials are probably your best bet on a new tractor.

 

[ovrszd]

Iron has a higher initial cost, it has a lower maintenance cost, The ride on rough fields is better with iron, the pull and power applied to the ground is better with iron especially at faster speeds (5-10mph). Road hauling is better with iron compared to liquid. Repair time there is no comparison, I can have a flat broken down and a tube repaired and be back in service before the left over fluid fill has been recovered, and if it was tubeless I can be back at work before the pump and barrels are ready to be used.

As far as chains go for my winter use on my driveway alone without chains my 11,000 pound tractor would be on its side and over the banks, no if's an's or but's.
As soon as a tire slips and spins on wet heavy snow on hills you are done.

Iron is generally $1 per pound, my fluid was .15 cents.

Ride quality in a rough field would be hard to quantify.

Traction difference would be very hard to quantify.

I road my tractor frequently at 25mph and notice no adverse effects.

My tires are tubeless. Fixing a small leak doesn't require draining fluid.

Guess it's whatever you feel most comfortable with.

 

[Soundguy]

Reading all the replies, thanks.

I'll try to do one post to address some of the responses.

1, Sure, I love iron weights.. many of my tractors have dedicated bolt on iron weights. In my area they are over a dollar a pound.. to get the counterweight I needed in bolt on weights, I'd likely have to add anther year of financing to go for it. The fluid is essentially coming bundled in the price, so it's a no brainer on that issue. I'm getting the liquid because it's already bundled and there is no option to unbundle it that I know of.

r1 vs r4. sounds like for size/weight sidewall and puncture resistance, r4 is the way to go.. and with my conditions not being extreme all the time, I'm not sacrificing much on the traction side vs making up for loader work, which this tractor will be doing mostly.

The idea of chains.. ugh.. I will pass for sure on those.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Folks always tell of better puncture resistance of R4 vs R1, BUT, the only flat tire I have had on my tractors is on my R4 tires. Never had a flat on my R1 tires. I think that is because it has much taller tread so thorns, etc. have to penetrate much more rubber to get thru the tread. OF course if something hits in between the tire treads, it will be a bit thicker with the R4.
I would rather recommend the R4 for better wear resistance on hard surfaces than for puncture resistance. An R4 has much more rubber contact surface than an R1 which is the main reason for using them on industrial application.

BIG CON: R4's only have a little more traction than a turf tire in mud, so if you plan to use your tractor for ground engagement activities or in muddy contact, stick with R1 tires.

Note: R4 tires have a sexier look on a tractor than R1 (if you are into that sort of thing)

 

[Oldoak]

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The idea of chains.. ugh.. I will pass for sure on those.

That is exactly what a friend of mine said who also went with R4s. A year later he was asking be as to what chains would be best for him.

I think R4s and chains make a great combination for someone who doesn't want R1s.

 

[LouNY]

If I wasn't using R1s I think my next choice would be a turf and chains when needed.
I have put enough chains on that they aren't that bad to do on 28" to 42" rims.
I would just as soon put my tractor chains on as my plow truck chains.

 

[Diggin It]

Y'all got me to wondering. I don't get a lot of snow compared to others, but I get enough at times to be a problem in the yard due to my hills. I never worry about plowing since I never have to go anywhere and can wait for it to melt in a few days. But I might have to move a load of firewood up to the house. Now I'm wondering if I'll be able to do that with R4s, even in 4WD.

 

[LouNY]

No idea of your location but if you get wet heavy snow, once you drive on it,it packs down and will be slick.
One problem I have at times is if the ground is not froze hard under the snow once it gets snow covered the frost will come out and your on mud under the snow, :banghead: so between tearing up the yard, spinning and chewing possibly getting stuck winter is not my favorite season.
That said I'm usually fairly well equipped for it.

 

[Diggin It]

Layers from the top down, snow, packed snow/ice, grass, mud would be more common than not. Ground rarely freezes more than a couple of inches.

What I'm gathering here is than I will have little, if any traction on a hill with R4s?

 

[LouNY]

My opinion for what it's worth is that no tire gives much traction in those situations, I have not used any tractors under 50 hp in the winter and even 250 hp and 20,000#'s on R1 radials once the snow packs and a tire spins your are not likely to have a good day.

 

[Soundguy]

The debate continues

 

[ovrszd]

Y'all got me to wondering. I don't get a lot of snow compared to others, but I get enough at times to be a problem in the yard due to my hills. I never worry about plowing since I never have to go anywhere and can wait for it to melt in a few days. But I might have to move a load of firewood up to the house. Now I'm wondering if I'll be able to do that with R4s, even in 4WD.

I push significant snow with my JD2210 and 64" front blade, R4 tires, no chains.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

When I bought my tractor, I was mainly mowing, uprooting cedar trees and using the grapple to stack them in burn piles. So I got R4 tires.

Now I'm doing a lot more tillage and ground engaging work, and I wish I had R1's for the increased traction. My next tractor will have R1's for sure.