PT expectations?

[jwangelin]

Hi,
Saw an ad for a PT the other day and started considering a used PT 425. Seems to be priced right with a number of attachments. This would be a 4 season tool, I have about 2 acres at the base of a hill. Mowing, snow plowing, snow blowing, and a loader for dirt and ice would be the majority of uses. I live in snow country in Western New York. Do they do well in snow? Do the decks accept recycling blades? (I hate raking) How do they do on soft ground? I have 1,000# plus Bolens that sinks into the grass in spring and fall. Would this still be an issue? I see that the dealer monopoly can be expensive. I had been considering a green or orange tractor but this would also meet my needs.

Thanks in advance,
Jon

 

[Roadworthy]

Honestly I know nothing about a PT 425. The small wheels do not look to me like they would do well in much snow. Check it out: PT425 Home Page

 

[joshlee]

Hi there! I can answer one of your questions about the 425 and the climate you live in. The 425 with the Robin Subaru does not start well under 35 degrees f. So PT was putting a 120V heat pad on the hydraulic tank. I did not like how long it took to heat the oil up so it would start. I hear that the 425 with the Kohler engine does start much better in cold weather.

Hopefully this info helps ya out.

Josh

 

[jwangelin]

I wonder how many units they sell per year? For the number of years they have been in business I would think there would be more people talking about them although this is a product that small businesses and municipalities would use instead of homeowners.

Thanks for the mossroad link, I haven稚 seen that.

I guess it makes sense about heating the oil. One of our warehouses was I heated and the hydraulic shear struggled in mid winter till we ran a torpedo heater on it most of the day. I assume the engine is directly coupled to the hydraulic pump.

 

[groundcover]

Wonder if synthetic fluid would help with cold starts ?

 

[johara1]

Hi,
Saw an ad for a PT the other day and started considering a used PT 425. Seems to be priced right with a number of attachments. This would be a 4 season tool, I have about 2 acres at the base of a hill. Mowing, snow plowing, snow blowing, and a loader for dirt and ice would be the majority of uses. I live in snow country in Western New York. Do they do well in snow? Do the decks accept recycling blades? (I hate raking) How do they do on soft ground? I have 1,000# plus Bolens that sinks into the grass in spring and fall. Would this still be an issue? I see that the dealer monopoly can be expensive. I had been considering a green or orange tractor but this would also meet my needs.

Thanks in advance,
Jon

They are heavy and in the spring it will tear up your yard and the rear wheels on the mower deck don't help. They don't get around the greatest on steep hills. third used chains in the winter at times on the front wheels.the Robin I never had trouble with in the winter as it was in the garage and when I needed to plow I would turn the heat on early and it fired right up. The good side it is the best small machine ever saw on the bucket and it will carry a half a ton of stone with no trouble, and with a ripper I made for it there wasn't much i couldn't dig. Don't get Ag tires just get the regular ones chained work better on them and in the spring if you are careful when turning as not to tear up the grass you will be all right.. jim

 

[cqaigy2]

We don't get much snow here, but i've not had problem pushing two feet of wet snow around. The plow is on the front and can be angled left , right, tilted forward and backward and of course it's on the fel arms so up and down. I use ag tires so don't know about the regular ones. I don't really have a yard, but the rough cut desk has none swiveling rear wheels so they do dig into the wet ground when turning sharply. I got PT because the hill sides where i live made the other tractors too unstable, i.e. lifting rear tire unstable.

 

[johara1]

On steep hills it isn't the stability, it is the lack of travel power if you are mowing... It is a real task to keep the front wheels down when mowing side ways on a hill it keeps riding up on the arms. They did make down pressure set up for them at one time to stop this...... jim

 

[MossRoad]

On steep hills it isn't the stability, it is the lack of travel power if you are mowing... It is a real task to keep the front wheels down when mowing side ways on a hill it keeps riding up on the arms. They did make down pressure set up for them at one time to stop this...... jim

I think you're referring to the draft control on some of the PT models. It raises the implement off the ground, which takes weight off the implement wheels, which transfers weight to the front wheels of the tractor, which increases traction on the front wheels of the tractor. I'm not familiar with HOW it works, but I'm pretty sure this is what it does.

I'm sure someone with draft control on a PT will chime it to debunk/confirm my theory. :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

Hi,
Saw an ad for a PT the other day and started considering a used PT 425. Seems to be priced right with a number of attachments. This would be a 4 season tool, I have about 2 acres at the base of a hill. Mowing, snow plowing, snow blowing, and a loader for dirt and ice would be the majority of uses. I live in snow country in Western New York. Do they do well in snow? Do the decks accept recycling blades? (I hate raking) How do they do on soft ground? I have 1,000# plus Bolens that sinks into the grass in spring and fall. Would this still be an issue? I see that the dealer monopoly can be expensive. I had been considering a green or orange tractor but this would also meet my needs.

Thanks in advance,
Jon

First, welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

- What year is the PT425?
- Does it have the quick attach or are the implements pinned on?
- Which engine is in it; Kohler or Robin/Subaru?
- Mine does fine in snow on my flat ground with turf tires. It crabs like crazy in snow on side hills. If I had hills, I'd get chains for the turfs and I think it would be fine.
- I have the 60" power-angle snow blade. It works great! I can stack snow 6' high.
- I have no experience with the blower, so can't help you there.
- FEL is fantastic for such a small machine. Buckets, forks, snow plow, 60" finish mower, 48" brush cutter, a 2" receiver attachment. Be aware of the lift height, though. It will not load a pickup truck from the side. I have an 18' car hauler trailer, and I can load that just fine from the sides over 12" side boards, so it's not an issue for me.
- My mower deck has very small spindle bolts, so it may be hard to find mulching blades to fit. Also, since it's a rear-discharge mower, the entire back is open. Recycling blades work best on closed decks, because they supposedly keep the clippings up in the air longer, getting cut into smaller bits as they try and fall. With the open rear on the PT decks, I don't think recycling blades would do that much different from regular blades, but I could be mistaken. If it's any consolation, I rarely bag my clippings, only if I need some for the garden. Then I pull a lawn sweeper behind me to gather them. The PT mower does a fine job for me. It's not like a Simplicity or Ventrac in the quality of cut, but I find it very acceptable. We don't have a "show lawn" like some neighborhoods.
- On soft ground, the PT itself does fine. The front tires on the 60" mower deck are pneumatic. I tubed mine so I could lower the air pressure and not keep popping them off the rims. The rear wheels on the 60" mower deck are OK, however, if you turn tightly on soft ground, since they don't caster like the fronts, they will tear the lawn. The are hard plastic, so there's no way to air them down.
- My PT425 with me on it is right around 1500#. The weight is distributed pretty evenly. The 4 tires are all the same size. I've never had an issue sinking into the grass. However, my soil is mostly sand and sandy loam, which drains pretty quickly. I've taken it into some wet spots at the little league park and never sank it. But only you can be the judge of that. @ 1500# total, there's 325# on each tire. The tire patch with my tires is about 2X the area of my size 13 shoes with the air pressure down to about 8-9psi. So I'm making a wild *** scientific guess that me standing on 1 foot is 215#. I do know for a fact that If I don't sink in walking an area, I won't sink in driving my PT425. So you might be able to use that for a comparison.

Those are my experiences. Hope that helps.

 

[MossRoad]

I wonder how many units they sell per year? For the number of years they have been in business I would think there would be more people talking about them although this is a product that small businesses and municipalities would use instead of homeowners.

Thanks for the mossroad link, I haven稚 seen that.

I guess it makes sense about heating the oil. One of our warehouses was I heated and the hydraulic shear struggled in mid winter till we ran a torpedo heater on it most of the day. I assume the engine is directly coupled to the hydraulic pump.

Yes, the engine is couple directly to the 3 hydraulic pumps.

 

[joshlee]

I'm not exactly sure either, but I think it puts the two lift cylinders for the FEL in a float mode and runs a continuous stream of hydraulic pressure to them. The way I set up the pressure for my draft control is while I'm driving ( the hood is opened ) I reach around and adjust the turn knob setting until I can see that the weight of the mower is held by the FEL but the casters are still on the ground. If I drive out to the edge of a steep bank where the mower is dangling in mid air, the mower will slowly, slowly lower while the draft is on.

 

[joshlee]

Wonder if synthetic fluid would help with cold starts ?

I think I've heard some people on here say that it helps with about 10 or 20 degrees in cold weather.

 

[MossRoad]

On my PT425, I ways mow and brush cut with the FEL in float.

I my front tractor tires start to spin, I pull the joystick back so the FEL is out of float, then back another spec until I can feel the weight of the mower come off the ground. That puts the entire weight of the mower, FEL arms, and pretty much everything forward of the front wheels onto the front wheels. It also takes weight off the rear tires, increasing traction on the front even more. The front tractor tires will almost immediately stop spinning and up the hill I go.

Then you do get to a point where the machine doesn't have enough power to spin the mower and climb the hill. That's fairly steep for me, and usually when the hydraulics are very hot. So I have to switch off the mower and then I have enough power to get up the hill. Turn around, turn the mower on, and mow downhill.

 

[johara1]

First, welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

- What year is the PT425?
- Does it have the quick attach or are the implements pinned on?
- Which engine is in it; Kohler or Robin/Subaru?
- Mine does fine in snow on my flat ground with turf tires. It crabs like crazy in snow on side hills. If I had hills, I'd get chains for the turfs and I think it would be fine.
- I have the 60" power-angle snow blade. It works great! I can stack snow 6' high.
- I have no experience with the blower, so can't help you there.
- FEL is fantastic for such a small machine. Buckets, forks, snow plow, 60" finish mower, 48" brush cutter, a 2" receiver attachment. Be aware of the lift height, though. It will not load a pickup truck from the side. I have an 18' car hauler trailer, and I can load that just fine from the sides over 12" side boards, so it's not an issue for me.
- My mower deck has very small spindle bolts, so it may be hard to find mulching blades to fit. Also, since it's a rear-discharge mower, the entire back is open. Recycling blades work best on closed decks, because they supposedly keep the clippings up in the air longer, getting cut into smaller bits as they try and fall. With the open rear on the PT decks, I don't think recycling blades would do that much different from regular blades, but I could be mistaken. If it's any consolation, I rarely bag my clippings, only if I need some for the garden. Then I pull a lawn sweeper behind me to gather them. The PT mower does a fine job for me. It's not like a Simplicity or Ventrac in the quality of cut, but I find it very acceptable. We don't have a "show lawn" like some neighborhoods.
- On soft ground, the PT itself does fine. The front tires on the 60" mower deck are pneumatic. I tubed mine so I could lower the air pressure and not keep popping them off the rims. The rear wheels on the 60" mower deck are OK, however, if you turn tightly on soft ground, since they don't caster like the fronts, they will tear the lawn. The are hard plastic, so there's no way to air them down.
- My PT425 with me on it is right around 1500#. The weight is distributed pretty evenly. The 4 tires are all the same size. I've never had an issue sinking into the grass. However, my soil is mostly sand and sandy loam, which drains pretty quickly. I've taken it into some wet spots at the little league park and never sank it. But only you can be the judge of that. @ 1500# total, there's 325# on each tire. The tire patch with my tires is about 2X the area of my size 13 shoes with the air pressure down to about 8-9psi. So I'm making a wild *** scientific guess that me standing on 1 foot is 215#. I do know for a fact that If I don't sink in walking an area, I won't sink in driving my PT425. So you might be able to use that for a comparison.

Those are my experiences. Hope that helps.

MR. do you have hills out there? Plow up hill and see.... they will spin.... and yes they will stack it high. You chain the front and they are a beast up hill or down and it doesn't crab when the blade is angled. I have over a foot of topsoil and in the spring they are very hard on the grass and the rear wheels on the deck are terrible for cutting up the yard. I was going to make a weight transfer out compression springs to help with mower deck and it ridding on the arms. I did put higher torque wheel motors to help with the lack of power on hills when mowing and I added a higher horsepower engine ......That mower will never cut with a Venrac..... each has it's place..... jim

 

[ponytug]

For the PTs that have them, draft does transfer an adjustable amount of weight from the implement (mower) to the tractor, improving traction.

It works by having the hydraulic system pressure up the pressure in the front arms to lift the implement almost off the ground. It is adjustable for different implements. There is a small locking knob that adjusts the pressure under the hood. I use draft on my brush cutter and have it set for it. On my soils, it makes a big difference on traction on hills.

Draft does not work in float mode. Float couples the both sides of the front end cylinders to each other (top to bottom). Float allows the tractor and mower to move independently, but the full mower weight is on the mower wheels. You can try to do it manually as MR does, but the beauty of draft is that it happens continuously, with no effort.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

For the PTs that have them, draft does transfer an adjustable amount of weight from the implement (mower) to the tractor, improving traction.

It works by having the hydraulic system pressure up the pressure in the front arms to lift the implement almost off the ground. It is adjustable for different implements. There is a small locking knob that adjusts the pressure under the hood. I use draft on my brush cutter and have it set for it. On my soils, it makes a big difference on traction on hills.

Draft does not work in float mode. Float couples the both sides of the front end cylinders to each other (top to bottom). Float allows the tractor and mower to move independently, but the full mower weight is on the mower wheels. You can try to do it manually as MR does, but the beauty of draft is that it happens continuously, with no effort.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Peter

Yes, I have poor man's draft control on the 425. :laughing:

But it works really well when I need it.
The 425 implements aren't very heavy, therefore, they don't sink in very often. I can see where the larger, heavier implements for the larger machines could sink in due to their weight.

 

[m5040]

I mow with my machines up hills until the wheels start to spin and both the PT180 and PT1430 have no problems doing it. However it is under rough conditions with debris leaves and sticks strewn about, these probably make the wheels spin easier then if it was clean grass. The draft control on the 1430 feeds pressurized oil from the tram pump to the lift side of the hoist cylinders, so the pressure varies somewhat with the amount of drive force used.
I think you shouldn't use any tractor on grass with a muddy base, but at lease an articulated tractor's wheels are turning the same speed front to rear verses a conventional tractor.

 

[MossRoad]

RE: PT's draft control...

There's got to be some sort of feed-back device to sense when the implement pushes on the FEL arms, so it raises the arms, and again, when the implement starts to hang off of the FEL arms, so it lowers it.

I know how this worked on my old IH2500b 3pt hitch; there is a rockshaft that the top-link hangs on. When the implement dug into the ground, the rear tires spun, that dropped them into a dug hole, which tries to change the length of the top-link side of the triangle of tractor, lift arms, top-link. The top link pushes on the rockshaft, that operates a valve, that lifts the 3pt arms, the lifts the implement, that reduces drag, and the tractor climbs out of the tire holes, the top link length tries to extend, which releases the rock shaft, which lowers the implement back to the desired height. Easy-peasy....

How does the PT sense the load change?

Just curious. This stuff is fascinating to me.

 

[aczlan]

RE: PT's draft control...

There's got to be some sort of feed-back device to sense when the implement pushes on the FEL arms, so it raises the arms, and again, when the implement starts to hang off of the FEL arms, so it lowers it.

I know how this worked on my old IH2500b 3pt hitch; there is a rockshaft that the top-link hangs on. When the implement dug into the ground, the rear tires spun, that dropped them into a dug hole, which tries to change the length of the top-link side of the triangle of tractor, lift arms, top-link. The top link pushes on the rockshaft, that operates a valve, that lifts the 3pt arms, the lifts the implement, that reduces drag, and the tractor climbs out of the tire holes, the top link length tries to extend, which releases the rock shaft, which lowers the implement back to the desired height. Easy-peasy....

How does the PT sense the load change?

Just curious. This stuff is fascinating to me.

From what has been described, it is pressure based, you set the "lift pressure" based on the attachment weight and that makes it so that when you put it in float mode there is always (for example) 987PSI on the base end of the cylinder(s) that raise/lower the loader arms.
If the mower hits a bump, the ground lifts the mower up, then there is less than 987PSI on the lift end of the cylinder, so it adds fluid until it gets back to 987PSI.
If the mower goes into a dip or over a bank and is floating in the air, it has more than 987PSI on the lift end of the cylinder, so it allows it to bleed off until it's back to 987PSI (which lowers the mower until the wheels touch again).
It's not the same as position control on your IH, it's more like one of those retractable reels that they use in assembly lines that are set to the weight of the tool so that you don't have to carry the weight of the tool.

Aaron Z