MossRoad said:
Post some actual dollar figures, folks. Then I'll get off the soap box.
OK, let's use the Kioti CK20S HST as an example. That is the new 2008 model which came with a price increase that went into effect today
.
Tractor with KL120B loader (comes with bucket!!!
) is less than a few hundred over 13000 (dealer asked that I not use their exact prices)
Matching KB2465 6.5ft backhoe with subframe takes the total up to a tad over 18000. This dealer delivers for just cost of fuel up to at least 200-300 miles or so.
A 4ft or 5ft bush hog can cost anywhere from $600 to more than double that for a premium brand. I'd imagine the PT deck is comparable to the $600 version.
5ft rear finish mower likewise costs between $1000-1800 depending on brand. Note all 3pt equipment comes with a PTO shaft included.
Adding rear hydraulic remotes is about 300 per set.
Adding a WRLong FEL diverter valve to control FEL hydraulic attachments would be about $550
Millonzi grapple about $800 plus shipping or you could just "add a grapple" to the standard bucket for about $400-600.
Rear blade for snow removal is about $300-500
PTO driven rear snow blower is more than $2K but I don't think there is a comparable implement for the PT.
Post hole digger (3pt) about $500 plus augers.
FEL "skid steer" QA adapter if you wanted to save 10-15 minutes switching out bucket and grapple would cost about $500-600.
Direct comparisons to the PT425 are difficult and the PT2425 is the closer match. Basically the KL120B loader lifts 1074lbs to full height (88"). The backhoe has a digging depth of 76", a reach of 113" and bucket digging force of 2800lbs. It swings 180 degrees. All those specs exceed the numbers I could find on the PT425 or PT 2425 with BH. Turning radius for the CK20 is 96" which I think is 1" more than the PT425 (I am surprised by that).
The CK20S also comes standard with a 22hp diesel, an adjustable suspension seat, two range HST, R4 tires, power steering, instrument panel with tach, hour meter, temp and fuel gauges, cruise control, position control for 3PT and ROPS. Canopy would cost another $300. Weight with FEL about 2700lbs. Weight of PT425 about 1300lbs
I see the list price of the PT2425 is $13000 and the PT425 is $10000. To that add shipping costs (if I recall correctly that was well over $1000 for the 700 miles so at least $1.50/mile). Add $350 for a standard bucket. Add $1350 for grapple bucket. Add $3500 for the backhoe on the PT2425 or $1100 for the minihoe on the 425. Add $1100 for bush hog and $1400 for finish deck (don't forget to increase shipping costs). PT post hole digger $1200-1400 with one auger. Blade for snow removal $450. R4 tires $120
Notably the PT comes with a one year do it yourself non transferable warranty that specifically does not cover the engine or other parts that are not manufacturered directly by PT. I imagine there is a separate engine warranty probably for a year per industry standard. In contrast, the Kioti comes with a 4 year powertrain warranty plus two years "bumper to bumper" including the FEL and BH. Kioti warranty service by any dealership and it is transferable.
Looking at the total cost of a package consisting of tractor, FEL, grapple bucket, (add a grapple plus WRLong control for the Kioti) delivery, mid range finish and bush hog mowers, R4s would be: Kioti about $16000 delivered. PT425 $13970 plus shipping.
Looking at the TLB combo (as above but with BH on the PT2425 or Kioti): Kioti $20,000 delivered. PT2425 $20500 plus shipping.
I don't see any advantage for PT in this cost comparison. The PT425 shipping charges would jack the price up to within $1000 of the much fuller featured and warrantied CK20. Throw in even one new engine for the PT in it's lifetime and any price difference evaporates. The PT2425 TLB costs more than the Kioti TLB despite spartan features even without adding the shipping charges.
Yes, the PT will change implements faster and it weighs less and has better stability on slopes. Those are about the only technical advantages however and in returning to the original thesis of this thread, it does not seem to be "cheaper" than a comparable CUT. That is particularly true if you consider the resale values. CK20s with a few years and few hundred hours use sell for roughly 70-80% of new. Doesn't seem to be the case with PTs.
I do agree that for around the house and suburban yard that the PT425 is the handier tractor and can be stored in less space. A SCUT TLB like the Kubota
BX24 would cost about the same as the Kioti TLB, maybe a tad less and would be comparable to the PT2425 in weight and storage size. For open fields and for bigger areas I'd imagine the Kioti CUT would pretty quickly outwork the PT in mowing and loader tasks. Overall costs of ownership over 10-15 years would also clearly favor the CUT.
