Power Broom build

[Renze]

heres the one i built a few years ago: we bought an old hay tedder converted with a broom, but it fell apart. I ended up using just that broom in 80% condition, and the angle gear.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/125663-road-sweep-rebuild.html

 

[kiotiken]

Nice job :thumbsup:

 

[dfkrug]

If I have a total 12.7 GPM hydraulic flow available, anybody have a guess how much this attachment would have available if I'm moving in mid range at a moderate speed? (tractor is HST, loader set and not moving, using power steering to turn at each end). I'd like to size the motor to give approx. 150 rpm with the flow I have available. All motors I've seen seem to have a max flow rating of 15 GPM

A few comments:

The CK30 has only about 8.3 GPM available from the implement pump. The
rest of the flow is for PS and HST charge only. 12.7 GPM is marketing
nonsense.

Once you design for output RPM, the ideal setup is direct drive of the
load with the hyd motor. This kind of coupling does not have significant
side loads, so common, regular hyd motors will work here (no wheel motors
with tapered roller bearings needed). Unfortunately, going as slow as
you want means a Huge motor (over 20ci), so that gets spendy real fast.
At some point, going with a smaller motor and a chain or belt drive to
decrease RPM will make financial sense.

To protect your broom, a work port relief valve would be ideal. If you use
a RV in the body of the valve, then your other implements (like FEL) will
be limited to this pressure also. You have a 2500psi tractor; it would be
a shame not to have that available for the FEL. I don't think a broom is
going to experience a sudden extreme load that you will need to protect
against, IMO. Also, the factory remotes do not have their own RV.

My concrete mixer application was similar. The output torque required was
not high, and I did not add any protection, other than the FEL relief valve.
Furthermore, I used a cheap Charlynn S or White HB motor.

For an FEL mount, you are going to need long hoses. Since this is a
continuous-duty app, running at 6-8 GPM, you will need 3/8" or larger
hose. By all means, divert your FEL curl circuit for angle, if you use that.

Sounds like a great implement to have; I hope you build it.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I think dfkrug has the best advice yet. The relief valve in the hydraulic system has all the advantages of being adjustable, cheap, and easy without complicating the design.

Question for dfkrug... could you put the relief nearer the motor to avoid the problem of reducing the working pressure on the rest of the system... i.e. install the relief valve so that it is isolated when the motor valve is closed?

 

[Cantoo]

Kioti, I do lawn sweeping in the spring, I have a couple of machines. Steiner front mount and another Dexter front mount that fits, John Deere or Ransomes. I also buy spare units at auctions once in while to have around. I have a skid steer one that has worn out brushes but everything else is on it, I paid under $200 for it and robbed a few hoses off it already. I have one that came off a front end loader and it was complete, I robbed the hoses and connectors off it for my grapple. I have 2 other ones that i also part out. I would never build something like this from scratch, buy used real cheap and make it new again. I have one that some poor guy spent big bucks to build and I bought it for peanuts so I could rob the new brushes off it. Call all the auction and farm equipment dealers around you and see if they have any used units around.

 

[kiotiken]

OK, these are all good ideas. Again, my only issue with direct drive is getting the speed right since there's no way to change it if I don't. I like a relief valve idea, couldn't I just add it right before the motor? I do get the point about needing very long hoses, but I think I'd bit the bullet on that one in order to keep full function of my FEL and still be able to drive the broom and have power angle. So if I add a relief valve before the motor, I shouldn't affect the pressure of the remotes or FEL, right?

Cantoo, I've looked at local dealers and they seem to want $2500-$3000 for a SS broom and look like they've been through a war ($2900 for this one: SWEEPER). If I could find one for $200 (that's what I bought my walk behind for, and I'm pretty sure it did go through at least one war), I'd jump all over that and recondition it. As far as the auctions go, my wife knows me far too well and is way to smart to let me go :laughing: Where do you go, Ritchie Bros?

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...Again, my only issue with direct drive is getting the speed right since there's no way to change it if I don't...

You can put a flow diverter in the line that allows you to adjust the amount of fluid that actually goes to the motor (the rest dumps back to the return line). They use them on the back of spud trucks around here all the time. You can get some very precise control with an adjustable flow diverter.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Here is an example of one of the diverter valves that has a built in adjustable relief. You can solve both concerns with one part. You have your relief to protect the system from breaking itself, and you have the adjustable flow to control your speed...

Surplus Center - 3/8 NPT HYD FLOW CONTROL VALVE W/RELIEF RDRS137-08

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Sorry, One more response...

...So if I add a relief valve before the motor, I shouldn't affect the pressure of the remotes or FEL, right?

I think that's right. If the relief valve is between the spool valve and the motor, it will be isolated from the circuit when the valve is closed. You'll have full pressure to operate your FEL when the broom is off. When the broom is on, the entire system will be limited by that one relief valve. Hopefully someone else can confirm this.

 

[kiotiken]

Sorry, One more response...

I think that's right. If the relief valve is between the spool valve and the motor, it will be isolated from the circuit when the valve is closed. You'll have full pressure to operate your FEL when the broom is off. When the broom is on, the entire system will be limited by that one relief valve. Hopefully someone else can confirm this.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure if limiting the FEL to the relief valve pressure when the broom is on would be an issue or not. The commercial brooms seem to weigh in at about 1200lbs. I'd need most of my lifting capacity at that weight. I'm struggling to figure out why they weight that much though. I have a tendency to way over build, mostly because I don't know enough or how to calculate forces etc to build something just strong enough. I have a very hard time imagining that the materials I'm thinking about, even if it's overbuilt, could even come close to weighing that much (heck, that's what my BH weights). I'm also thinking of reducing the broom to 72", all the bigger ones I've seen use 18-25gpm or have 2 motors.

I'm loving all these ideas, thanks guys.

 

[dfkrug]

Question for dfkrug... could you put the relief nearer the motor to avoid the problem of reducing the working pressure on the rest of the system... i.e. install the relief valve so that it is isolated when the motor valve is closed?

Yeah, that's right. It is a work port relief valve so it protects the circuit
only when activated (valve open).

With no work port RV, the broom is still protected by the system RV,
which at about 2500 psi may be a bit higher than ideal. My feeling is that
you can build the setup much simpler with no added RV for a broom. Here
is why: you are not going to hit a sudden damaging load with the
bristles of the broom. This is not a PHD or rototiller that can suddenly hit
an unmovable rock. If the broom is starting to see too much resistance
to a load, you should get some feedback from the tractor long before the
2500psi RV kicks in. So when you wrap up that stray 300 ft piece of
rope you left lying in the yard, you are going to want to shut down long
before it binds up in a 2-ft thick wad.

I prefer to design the system where the system RV is good enough for
the new hyd implement. 2000 psi motors are common and reasonably
priced; 2500psi motors are much more expensive. I recently waited a
long time for an inexpensive new White series 255 or 300 to come up on
eBay. I snagged a 8ci 300 series for only $80 for a new PHD I am
making. That motor easily handles the 2500 psi pressure my tractor
puts out.

As for flow rate, you can design for a certain ideal speed, then you have
the ability to "adjust" that quite a bit by the speed of the engine and
the travel speed range that you use. I would steer away from the added
complication of a flow diverter.

 

[kiotiken]

As for flow rate, you can design for a certain ideal speed, then you have
the ability to "adjust" that quite a bit by the speed of the engine and
the travel speed range that you use.

Wow, sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees. I was so focused on the gpm that I expected to have available that I missed the obvious, adjust the engine rpm. Same pressure, less flow.

 

[J_J]

If you are going to use a hyd motor relief, it should mounted close to the motor like this.

 

[Cantoo]

kioti, I took a few pics tonight of the end of mine just so you could see how one looks. The hoses are hooked together, this might have something to do with reverse but I have no idea. Some of the parts look pretty expensive though. Let me know if you need any more pics, these were taken in the dark and the last idiot that owned it painted everything black so can't read numbers or names off anything. This idiot never paints anything.
That is nuts for the used one in your link. I know my buddy Brindley had a few for sale in his yard and likely still has some. Brindley Auction Service

 

[Cantoo]

This one was on a pay loader or a backhoe.
I likely have a 100 pieces of equipment laying around, all very useful if I live to be 200 and healthy enough to make anything out of it all.

 

[aczlan]

The hoses are hooked together, this might have something to do with reverse but I have no idea.

That is a relief valve. If there is too much pressure on the pressure line, it will dump the excess fluid into the return line to avoid hurting the motor.

Aaron Z

 

[kiotiken]

Thanks Cantoo. Great pics, that gives me a picture of a chain drive system, close to what I had been thinking. Interesting that there is a relief valve there. Thanks for the link, that place is great, lots of stuff I've never seen before. I've got that one bookmarked!

 

[dfkrug]

I would never build something like this from scratch, buy used real cheap and make it new again. I have one that some poor guy spent big bucks to build and I bought it for peanuts so I could rob the new brushes off it.

I agree. This approach to a lot of customized implements modified to fit
your tractor is usually the most economic approach. You can also take
advantage of some of the engineering already done. UNLESS, of course,
someone wants to build from scratch (or plans) for the fun of it. Nothing
wrong with that.

Case in point: I built a CADDigger mini self-propelled excavator years ago,
but it makes better sense financially to buy and modify an existing hoe
attachment. You can currently get them quite cheap; way less than
what I paid for materials for the DIY scratch build.

 

[kiotiken]

Well, I would be building it for fun, but I've got many other projects I could be doing for fun, so I wouldn't be against buying one on the cheap and reconditioning it. The problem is I can't find a cheap used broom. I also don't think the materials for this are going to be too bad, although the hoses and fittings might make a liar out of me. The motors go on sale at Princess auto for around $100, I have a fair amount of the steel and it wouldn't cost much for what I need to buy and bearings, caster wheels, mounts etc shouldn't cost that much. The broom is a wash since any used "Cheap" sweeper won't have much of a broom left anyway. The killer could be the 30ft of hoses to go from the back to the broom and all the fittings to go along with it, but again, no broom will come with 30ft of hose, so other than the fittings, it's a bit of a wash there too. If I could find one like Cantoo for under $200, there's no doubt that's the route I'd take, but I've yet to see one under $2000 and new they're north of $4000, and I know I can build one just as well for a fraction of that.

 

[forgeblast]

Parts & Replacement Brushes for Superior Broom Self Propelled Street Sweeper Brooms for Construction Sites, Roads & Side Cast Sweepers.
found some replacement parts here, might help cost wise.