Portable Generator

plaindave · Aug 20, 2004

I'll toss in my thoughts. I spent most of my career with the CAT organization and did a lot of work on the generation side of the business. It's not uncommon for a service guy to need to flash the field on a generator to get it putting out power. More common than most would like to admit. So that part of the problem doesn't surprise me. However you usually only need to do that after an extended storage period - I'm talking years here, not months. My guess is that you have a bad voltage regulator. A quick test and fix if the service guy is any good. Once fixed it should be good for a long time.

As for Generac's quality (or lack thereof), Generac is a price point builder and well known in the industry for being the low cost supplier. You don't get to low costs without giving up something. They build decent stuff, but it's always been a step or two behind the better competition. I have a Generac pressure washer. Great engine (their design) but the shaft size is a special shaft and the pump can only be replaced with a Generac pump. And the pump has a known problem of throwing shoes on the swash plate. It was cheap and lasted through the warranty. They figure on the average homeowner using it less than 5 hours per year. Same for the generators.

As for me - I got a Northern Tool generator, 5000W, Honda 9hp engine. Runs my well and everything else I need to get by in an outage.

v8dave · Aug 21, 2004

( 7000 W should be OK for my house. I will not use the dryer and stove during power outage. I do not have A/C. The risk of having all appliances starting at the same time (the surge) is small.

One thing confuses me though. Honda has a 6000 W generator with 6500 W surge. How can Generac have a 7000 W generator with a 12500 W surge ? That's 5500 W more for surge (~78% more). )

Possibly, the two manugfacturers are using the same words for different meanings.

In sizes above 5~10kw most generators have two power ratings. One for continuous and one for intermitent. The two ratings are generator temperature related, i.e., heat! At the steady power level (the lower number) the generator (not the gas/diesel power engine) can dissapate the waste heat without burning up. At the intermittent "surge" level the [electricity] generator can absorb the extra heat for a short time, but then it has to run for a longer time at a lower power level to get rid of the extra heat. Read the fine print, there will be a description of the time it can run at the higher power level along with the reduced capacity cool-down running time.

Another type of "surge" is the ability to start big HP electric motors. Single phase capacitor start motors take 3 to 5 times the KW power to start them as it takes to run them. This capacity is controlled by excess size of the generator and the rotating mass of the gas/diesel engine and the generator.

It looks like the Honda unit is talking about the continuous/intermittent and the Generac is talking about motor start.

Providing the Generac will run at all--it will likely start a well pump primarily because of its greater mass, the Honda probably won't, it is lighter weight. In fact Honda advertises its generators as light weight. Hondas may be more reliable, but the lighter mass won't start as big a motor.

ns_in_tex · Aug 21, 2004

This thread got me to wondering about my generator, so I proceeded to read the manual again. I can find no reference to using on a regular basis, or having to flash the fields. Do you know if this something that applies to 1800 rpm brushless generators or, are they immune to this situation?

plaindave · Aug 21, 2004

All of the stuff we did at CAT were 1800 or slower speed generators. All were brushless. This information isn't usually in the owners service manual, but the big shop manuals. I acutally think I learned it in a service school where they tell you all the things that aren't in the manuals.

KiotiJohn · Aug 23, 2004

The owner's manual for my OLD Onan 1800 RPM RV generator does say to operate the generator regularly at full load to exercise the generator head. They even made mention that simply starting it up with no load was not productive. John

Soundguy · Aug 23, 2004

( All of the stuff we did at CAT were 1800 or slower speed )

On our old tractors with gennies.. we have to polarize the field shoes if it sets for an extended amount of time ( years )..

Soundguy

RalphVa · Aug 28, 2004

You're getting a bunch of hoo-haa garbage. I'd take that generator back and ask for a refund. Sounds as though it's still on warrantee. Never heard of such a thing as lost magnetism.

I've an Isuzu electric start generator. I have it on my calendar to go out and run it for 15 minutes or so once a month. Sometimes miss a month.

Only complaint with it is it doesn't seem to start as readily as it should. Good thing it's electric start.

Ralph

OhioGuy · Aug 29, 2004

Hey Ralph,

Yea, I agree. At this point all you can do is pass the word and hope to cost them a few sales. It's been in the shop three weeks now, they haven't looked at it yet, I don't really care! I'm not particularly anxious to get it back. When I do, it will get regular testing. I'll be sure and post what they found when it gets fxed.

Curt

Soundguy · Aug 30, 2004

( You're getting a bunch of hoo-haa garbage. ... Never heard of such a thing as lost magnetism )

The whole principle behind most generators is based on magnetism... simple physics.

On lots of old generators, if you have the generator in a system that is not used for years.. or has new field shoes installed.. or the battery has been changed.. or even if you are changing the charge polarity, it is a common process to polarize the generator ( and regulator/cutout ) to set the initial charge polarity and residual field magnetism.

True this is an generator mounted on a car/tractor.. but i don't see why it might not also apply to a generator in a dedicated setup. Just depends on the field setup and control. Alternators were setup with different field control and didn't have near the maintenance issues as with the older gennies.

Soundguy

OhioGuy · Sep 14, 2004

Well, it's been 6 weeks in the shop, picked the wrong generator, picked the wrong service center. I called today and was told parts were on order, I asked what parts, after being put on hold the response was the paperwork couldn't be found but he knew it wasn't ready.

Tomorrow I'll call and ask to talk to the owner.

Genewreck, what a joke!

Curt

OhioGuy · Oct 13, 2004

Well, It's been a little over three months in the shop. I called last week and was told parts were on backorder. I asked when the parts were ordered, their not sure, someone else ordered, he didn't have the paperwork in front of him.

He did say it was the control board that failed.

I think I call Genewreck again tomorrow and see if I can rain on somebodys day there, why should I be the only one unhappy?

Time to get ugly!

Curt

Moon · Oct 15, 2004

Sorry about your ordeal, but thanks for the heads up. I"m in the market for a generator and this is just the kind of info that will keep me away from the Genewreck brand.

After taking this long they should offer to replace it. I've found that correspondence in writing seems to get better results. I'd be tempted to write the head of this company and demand something right now!

best of luck!

Moon of Ohio

plaindave · Oct 18, 2004

First off, you have to get the company name right. If I remember right our service guys refered to them as either "Gene-junk" or "Gene-crap".

I wouldn't argue with them. I have one Generac piece of equipment and that is more than enough for me.

But be careful what you buy - Generac private labels producs for a lot of companies including WW Grainger and Sears.

OhioGuy · Oct 18, 2004

My latest round of discussion started with, "Could you give me a number or address of someone that can escalate a call"?
Her answer was, No. She wasn't being disagreeable, that just wasn't an option she had available. She looked up my service ticket and said she would pass it on to her supervisor that wasn't in at that time. She also said they would follow-up with the local repair shop and try to expedite the repair.

OK, that was Thursday, do you think a call back MIGHT be in order.

Good thing I'm gettin that extended warranty!

Genewreck, We're working to destroy our customer base, one customer at a time!

OhioGuy · Nov 21, 2004

Well, another month has past, parts are backordered. Four months in the shop, absolutely unacceptable.

I would never consider a Generac product again.
They are part of Briggs and Stratton as I understand it.

Horrible, horrible, horrible service.

Curt

sherpa · Nov 21, 2004

I have an idea but I dont know if everyone will take part and go to the trouble to help you.

What if you drafted an inquiry with all the info on it including repair number, mailing address or email address, contact persons name, etc. Make it easy for everyone to copy and paste. And then everyone on this post send an inquiry to gererac stating we are monotoring this particular work order to see how they are going handle it. Or we could be objective and simply state that we have heard your side of the story, now we want to hear their side of the story. Either way I think it would call attention to your problem and someone at generac would realize that you are not out here alone.
Sherpa

ducati996 · Nov 21, 2004

( Well, another month has past, parts are backordered. Four months in the shop, absolutely unacceptable.

I would never consider a Generac product again.
They are part of Briggs and Stratton as I understand it.

Horrible, horrible, horrible service.

Curt

)

I would take it out of that repair shop fixed or not and find another....Give them a 5 minute warning telling them you want your machine. This shop is part of the problem...get it fixed elsewhere and sell it...you have suffered enough, and small claims Generac for restitutuion

Ducati

OhioGuy · Nov 21, 2004

Sherpa and Ducati,
About a month ago a service manager called and told me as a result of the hurricanes they had sold thousands of generators in the south. The normal out of box failures dried up much of their existing part supplies and the stator mine needed was backordered. It seemed like a reasonable scenario and he was the first person I talked to at Generac that seemed to have a clue, more importantly he said he'd get it taken care of.

So to remove it from the service center won't help if the part is still backordered. I'll call tomorrow and see what the latest holdup is.

Sherpa, I appreciate the offer to flood them with inquiries, I think that would get their attention anyhow.

I post again after talking with the service folks, for all I know, he might have shipped the part the next day and now the service center is sitting on it.

Hey guys, thanks for some good suggestions, I'll keep you posted. My main objective is just to alert anyone else considering a Generac product.

Curt

OhioGuy · Nov 24, 2004

Well,
It's hard to believe but the direct line to the service manager I was given a month ago has changed to a general number for service related voicemail, all I could do was leave a message yesterday.

I thinking of another route, maybe if I go retrieve it from the service center, since it's apparently never going to be repaired anyway, put it on a trailer and park it at Home Depot with a sign, something like, purchased here, piece of useless garbage, no support from Home Depot, or Generac.

With any luck, it will be stolen and the story will have a happy ending.

Whatever.

Curt

rswyan · Nov 24, 2004

Curt,

I'll throw my two cents in here on how you might escalate it. About 10 years ago I had a tape backup drive for my computer fail in warranty. It needed to go into the service depot to be repaired (replacement was not an option) Due to some internal logistics (moving the repair depot to another location, someone was on vacation, we're too busy, whatever ....) I got jerked around for a week or two and through a number of people ..... none of which appeared able to do anything EFFECTIVE about my situation. Additionally, I was met in at least one instance with blatant conduct which, to put it mildly, might be considered not real good PR (public relations) The situation looked pretty hopeless (I needed the drive asap to restore some data) and I was getting pretty pissed.

So I found out the contact info for the corporate offices and called and asked the name of the CEO (even better if you can get his/her name prior to calling - say off their website)

I then called again later (to avoid being filtered by the traffic cops) and (using my best professional business execfutive manner) asked to be connected to the office and secretary for Mr. X - just like he and I were old golfing buddies. Once connected I explained that I was trying to send a fax to Mr. X and did she have a number that would go directly to him or would definitely result in him seeing it. She gave me the number and told me that indeed anything that I sent in he would definitely see. (Incorrectly restrticting incoming communications to an executive can be a dangerous thing for a lower-level person to do)

So I wrote up a letter, as the owner of one business to another, and basically told him the problems I was having, the incompetencies of his junior personnel, and then informed him as business owner and consultant who recommended his products that based on my experiences that there was no way I would ever be able to recommend them in the future. The letter contained some degree of ridicule (basically "what the heck kind of operation are you running there ?") although it was fairly well couched so as not to offend the CEO personally - but it was plenty plain enough so that he got the point (with a bullet /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif )

Within an hour after sending the fax I had a call from the CEO's secretary explaining that by the following day they would be sending out overnight to me a brand new tape drive and would I please return the old defective unit. Her manner in the call was so grave that it prompted me to ask her if my fax had caused much of reaction. Her reply was that yes it had - and that a number of people were now looking for new employment as a result.

The bottomline on all this is that if whoever you are dealing ain't getting the job done you have to BYPASS THEM BY WHATEVER MEANS YOU CAN, and get to someone who can do something about it. In almost all cases the CEO can - and he/she might well appreciate you contacting him/her - the individual may be desperately trying to figure why some company problem exists (sales are on 12 month downslide) ..... and not have a clue what the real reason is.