Pole barn posts

[pajoube]

Very good looking barn. Interesting that you mention pole barns to be no cheaper than stick building. I always thought pole barns would be much cheaper so gave no real thought to stick building. Will start looking at stick costs as well.
PJ

 

[Darren]

Unless you compact the fill well, you'll get settlement. I'd suggest buying longer posts for use in the filled area so that you're still using the same depth of undisturbed soil. When you do fill, do it in layers and compact each layer before spreading the next layer. Wait a year or so if you're going to put a concrete slab inside.

The other thing you might consider is buying posts with the 2.5 lb treatment. If you're in a coastal area, a marine lumber company can supply them (6x6s are a standard size) or they can be special ordered from the treatment plant. Those posts are treated to resist constant salt water immersion. Those won't rot in your lifetime or your grandkids.

 

[bmabe]

Carl,
That's a REALLY nice barn. A couple of questions, please: did you draw the plans? buy a stock set? or have an architect draw them up? I'd like to know more about the floor trrusses. Last, I didn't realize there was that much level ground in the state.
Barry

 

[Carl_NH]

The quotes I got were $28K for a complete pole barn with second story 24/36 incl. 4" conrete slab poured after setting the posts, and with T-111 siding not cedar shakes. This is a monolithic slab construction 18x24 "honch" with rebar around the perimeter, tied to interior steel mesh as the foundation, then 4" concrete avg in the center. Bolted to 2x6PT at the sill plate then stick framed from there.

Costs were $12 K matls, 2.5K concrete, then with my labor plus help for frame and sidewalls another $10K . The biggest cost was the floor trusses 18"x24' - 27 of them at $86 each but I don't like poles in the middle, plus wanted a 2nd story.

BTW, the previous comments about a "carriage house" aren't far off, since this is the Kubota house, plus workshop, plus storage for other stuff, which seems to grow every day..

Carl

 

[Carl_NH]

Barry,

I did the plans, prepped the site, then per town requirements needed a signed off set of dwgs by a structural eng. So i drew up side, front and rear elevations, with framing and roof details then took to the eng. firm and they signed off with their stamp of approval.

Cost me a few $ more with the changes they wanted. I used rough EWP 1x8 for sheathing from the land clearing, but due to shear factors the eng firm wanted 5/8 CDX on the gable endwalls, and 30 lag bolts in the concrete to sill with hurricane straps every 4'.

Regarding floor trusses, there are a few types, the two I am familiar with are the I-Beam type essentially laminated wood with a 2x4 top and bottom, and the type I used which are a 2x4 truss setup. check out www.wood structures.com (based in Biddeford Me) as they make the trusses. Also some canadian outfits are very competitive as well for floor trusses.

BTW, the 18"x24"x 24' 16" OC truss setup is good for 60PSF on the second floor. See the photo for detail, also if you want a material list, I would be happy to supply one - email me.

Carl

 

[ns_in_tex]

We built a hay shed (pole barn type) with used power poles, about 10 years ago in east Texas (No snow load). Engineered by the seat of pants method, so you engineers can tell me everything that is wrong & I hope there may be some good idea to help. The pole portion of the shed is 30x60. The overall roof coverage is close to 50x60. 4/12 roof pitch. All except end poles are pretty much out of the weather. The bottom cord of truss is about 14/15' above ground. Each pole top center was knotched with chain saw wide enough for truss to sit down in tight and bolt run through pole and truss. Poles and trusses on 10' centers. Truss top cord is 2x8 & bottom cord is 2x6. Then ran 2x6x10' between trusses on 3' centers (I think) and attached to trusses with joist hangers and screwed down with 1-1/4" screws. We left 8' overhang on truss 2x8 top cord and braced back to pole. Installed 25' Sheet metal roof and the attachment shows what you get. Total material cost was less than $5,000.00 at that time.

 

[ns_in_tex]

Hay shed, top of pole view

 

[ns_in_tex]

Hay shed, Truss view
Have fun building & enjoy it for years to come.

 

[Carl_NH]

Neal,

Good looking pole shed, this is typical of what I have seen for equipment storgage etc. The post location 10' O/C is light I think for structural purposes, though it has served you well in Texas. We would have 4'- 6' O/C with snow load (though steel roofs don't hold snow try telling the local inspector, he will say what about the next roof/owner) as typical construction. and sidewalls to keep the weather outside. The side wall will create more shear on the bldg, as you have open sides I am sure this will stand for many more years.

This is a good testimonial for pole barns structural simplicity as well being cost effective to build. I could have built a 24x36 barn similar for about $6-8K, without a foundation, sidewalls, windows, doors and siding. but I wanted a weather tight structure for tools and storage.

The biggest factor against the pole barn construction for our location was the rock and ledge, since the poles provide the structural integrity and some may have been 2' and others 4' deep in my case.

Carl

 

[Soundguy]

If he is only building a 24 x 36, 6x6 pole construction with no concrete footer should be fine.

He can do a search for 'friction piles' on the internet.

Soundguy

 

[yooperdave]

Hi Bud,

A few things to check out when building a pole barn:

1. Find out the frost depth below grade.
2. The pole should bear on a concrete pad footing
usually circular and prefabricated.
3. If the pad bears on the fill, make sure that the fill
is granular, and has been compacted to at least
95% of a modified proctor.
4. Make sure that the fill has been compacted and proof
rolled in 8" lifts - important for slabs and foundations.
5. Check with a local geotechnical engineer if your local
soil can be used as fill - you may have to import fill
from another location.
6. Make sure that the posts are pressure treated solid or
pressure treated glulam. Do not let the contractor
"build up" some columns from nominal 2x material.
7. Know your contractor. Integrity is very important.

Good luck with your project - post some pictures.

Yooper Dave

 

[Gatorboy]

<font color=blue> Make sure that the posts are pressure treated solid or
pressure treated glulam. Do not let the contractor
"build up" some columns from nominal 2x material.
</font color=blue>

I would think that "built up" posts out of 2x's would be stronger than a solid post. Am I wrong?

 

[rmorgan]

Here's a picture of a 24'x40' pole barn we've got going up (construction started last Monday). The poles are set on two bags of quikcrete emptied into each hole dry. The building has attic trusses and will have inside stairs, sliding doors on each end and a man door (Dutch door--longtime spousal fantasy /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif). There will be a concrete floor. We opted for pole construction rather than stick-built to minimize impact on the couple of nearby trees; I also like the way pole construction looks inside. The windows are a little strange for a barn, but we've had 'em for years and figured we might as well use 'em.

 

[axldoozer]

Carl NH is right on with the pole barn info. I would just like to emphasize the fact that by the time it is all said and done, a stick-frame building will be about the same price. I am in the process of building a 40x60 pole barn right now and by by the time you set the posts, brace them and put a concrete ring below the frost line you will have dropped about as much money as a concrete foundation for a stick building.
My building is a monitor style barn. If I remember correctly the center posts are 22' long 6x6 PT and the sheds along the sides are 14' 6x6 posts. The concrete ring Carl speaks of is created when you take 1/2" lag screws and screw them on all four sides of the post below the frost line and pour 1-1.5 feet of concrete in the area surrounding the lag screws (big spikes will work also) this is done so that in order to move the post (settling or wind) the whole concrete ring has to move with the post.

Oh yeah, if you have a lot of posts and plan to put in the lag screws,use or borrow an air compressor and an air ratchet. It will save you a ton of time

Another piece of advice--if you are thinking about any upstairs storage check into pre-fab I-joists. They have a longer span (enables a wider floor space without posts).

The guys are starting on the roof this week. Let me know if you need any other info. I am finally building my dream barn and have a lot of tips on stuff to put in it.

Darren

The guys start on my roof this week. I will try to send some photos.

 

[Scott_in_WVA]

I built a nice 32' wide x 48' long,made all of the 6"x6" posts by nailing 2"x6" boards together staggering each layer,I was told I would have better treated post's this way,because a 6"x6" is not always salt treated to the center,if I had it to do over I would just go with the 6"x6" posts and call it good,I forget how many posts were in the barn,but there were a lot,we drilled the holes with a post hole driller (I think 36" deep) and put two old heavy clay bricks on the bottom of the hole and set the posts and filled with concrete.

 

[barticus73]

What's a typical price for 4x4 and 6x6 posts in varying lengths of say 12', 16', 20'?? I am looking to add a side addition onto my existing barn for extra eqipment storage and was thinking of going with pole type constrction for it.

Thanx

 

[Scott_in_WVA]

Well,
I honestly cannot answer that question with out looking myself,it has been a while since I purchased any...although I am getting ready to start another project soon.I typically deal with Lowes...you might go to there home page and see if they have any prices there...they have a nice web page.
Sorry I could not be of anymore help as of now.

 

[Gatorboy]

Scott,

Do you have any pictures of your barn? (inside/out would be great).

I am currently working on my 32'x72' pole barn. 48' of the barn will be open, and the last 24' will be enclosed. I will have 32' trusses made so that I will have no posts inside the structure. I have just finished with the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.pbase.com/image/5028812>pad</A>. I would like to get the posts (at least the bottom portion) set before Winter -- and then finish it up this Spring.

I will be making the posts out of 2x6's as well. I will use PT wood for the portion that goes into the ground and a few feet above, and then regular non-treated for the remainder going up.

I am just going to nail a 2x12 to the bottom of the post (to create an upside down T), place a concrete pad in the bottom of the hole and just fill the hole back up around the post with dirt -- no concrete mixing required.

 

[yooperdave]

Hi Dave,

A built up column of the same size as a solid member requires a slenderness reduction factor - usually in the 10% to 25% range. This can be offset by making the built up section larger (e.g. 3-2x4 instead of a 4x4).

An important consideration when fabricating built up columns is to transfer the shear stress from adjacent members.

I saw a pole barn for a farmer that was constructed out of built up columns. The contractor had all of the butt joints located within a couple of feet of the midspan of the column. This produced a hinge and was unstable causing significant sidesway in the building. The building posed a safety issue for the occupants. No codes were violated because agricultural buildings are exempt from all building codes. The farmer assumed his money was the same as everybody elses, and the contractor would have followed a building code.

Buyer beware.

Yooper Dave

 

[Scott_in_WVA]

I will see about scanning some in the next few days.

Scott