Pole Barn advise

[Guttery_Gipe]

Friends,

Ive been reading alot of the postings on pole barn construction and picking up some very valuable advice. Im planning on building a 36x48x16 pole barn this spring and wanted to get your thoughts on some questions I have.

For the intended use - Im planning to live in part of the barn while our house is being built so the 16' side walls are to accommodate a loft with 2 bedrooms. Downstairs would be a familyroom/kitchen and a bathroom. (longer term this would be wood shop w/ bathroom & office/storage loft above). These quarters would have a concrete floor w/ underfloor heating and would occupy the back 1/3 of the building with the remainder as the barn with a gravel floor & 12x14 overhead door.

I'll have to contract out the construction so Id like to get your opinions on the following:

1. One builder is quoting for 10' oc posts with the girts bookshelved in joist hangers. This would make fiberglass insulation easier but whats your thoughts on the 10' spacing (6x6PT posts) ?

2. I was planing on a ridge vent & 12' vented overhang on all 4 sides. Is this necessary if I go with closed cell spray foam insulation ?
While spray foam is expensive - I havent seen any postings where people have regretted going with it so thats why Im considering it [ well that and my track record on project completion leads me to expect to be in these temporary quarters for a while ] Im told Ice dams can be an issue on buildings without vented overhangs in this neck of the woods.

3. One neighbor suggested lining the the interior with a vapor barrier and white metal sheeting and then just filling the cavity with blown in cellulose insulation. This would be with the girts on side rather than in hangers but I liked the idea because its a DIY job. Whats your thoughts on this ? should I get the contractor to hang the steel ?

Looking forward to your suggestions.

 

[Duffster]

Friends,

Ive been reading alot of the postings on pole barn construction and picking up some very valuable advice. Im planning on building a 36x48x16 pole barn this spring and wanted to get your thoughts on some questions I have.

For the intended use - Im planning to live in part of the barn while our house is being built so the 16' side walls are to accommodate a loft with 2 bedrooms. Downstairs would be a familyroom/kitchen and a bathroom. (longer term this would be wood shop w/ bathroom & office/storage loft above). These quarters would have a concrete floor w/ underfloor heating and would occupy the back 1/3 of the building with the remainder as the barn with a gravel floor & 12x14 overhead door.

I'll have to contract out the construction so Id like to get your opinions on the following:

1. One builder is quoting for 10' oc posts with the girts bookshelved in joist hangers. This would make fiberglass insulation easier but whats your thoughts on the 10' spacing (6x6PT posts) ?

2. I was planing on a ridge vent & 12' vented overhang on all 4 sides. Is this necessary if I go with closed cell spray foam insulation ?
While spray foam is expensive - I havent seen any postings where people have regretted going with it so thats why Im considering it [ well that and my track record on project completion leads me to expect to be in these temporary quarters for a while ] Im told Ice dams can be an issue on buildings without vented overhangs in this neck of the woods.

3. One neighbor suggested lining the the interior with a vapor barrier and white metal sheeting and then just filling the cavity with blown in cellulose insulation. This would be with the girts on side rather than in hangers but I liked the idea because its a DIY job. Whats your thoughts on this ? should I get the contractor to hang the steel ?

Looking forward to your suggestions.

10' o.c. is fine, especially if they place the girts flat, which is the way I prefer to do it. It will give you 6" more inches on the inside of the building.

If you are going to have framelines 10' o.c. you might as well make the building 50' long, if you can.

I am not a fan of cellulose insulation but the steel is an easy enough thing for you to do.

Where/what do you plan to spray foam?

 

[Guttery_Gipe]

If I went with the spray foam I was planning on doing the roof and side walls - having first installed some conduit and access routes for electrical and plumbing as suggested in another thread.

If I went with blown cellulose in the side walls I woud have the contractor install that foil-bubble-foil in the roof and do the walls myself.

 

[o2batsea]

One thing is for sure. No matter how big you make your barn, once you start moving stuff in there, you'll wish it was bigger. I would rethink the notion of living in the barn. The money you'll spend on making a living space could be used to rent an apartment or house, and when you are ready to move in to your home you won't have the white elephant of living space taking up space in the barn. If you really need to be on site, see about a temporary solution like rental office trailer.

 

[yooperdave]

I hope you are aware that you will not have 8' ceilings with 16' shed side walls.

I would figure in a foot or so of construction depth to frame the second floor.

You may also want to upsize the foundations in the living area as you may be adding a whole lot of load to the exterior columns.

Are you providing thickened slabs under the interior load bearing walls?

Do not sell yourself on the size of the shed. Nobody ever (hardly) complains that their shed is too big.

Good Luck

Yooper Dave

 

[matt_isserstedt]

Along the same lines, with the large volume (the 16' side) you increase the "cube" of the building - which is all air that has to be heated/cooled eventually if you plan to keep your shop at a reasonable working temp.

At the same time I do understand the want/need to be "right there" so you can make incremental progress without a lot of driving around.

If it were me I think I'd lean towards building the basic pole building. Build the "live/work" area with walls a foot thick and fill that up with loose blown. Essentially you're framing a double set of walls and filling the space between. This will minimize your energy consumption for heating & cooling down to a couple of electric heaters or a large window unit and also be easier to self-install and it doesn't cost that much extra other than the framing lumber. You can also carry on construction indoors to the finished shell without interference of "what's-that-kitchen-doing-in-a-barn" type of issue.

 

[yooperdave]

Up North, it is not uncommon to buy a used trailer home, park it on the site, and then sell it afterwards when the construction is far enough along.

My Uncle did this and even made some money in the process.

Yooper Dave

 

[rambler]

Up North, it is not uncommon to buy a used trailer home, park it on the site, and then sell it afterwards when the construction is far enough along.

My Uncle did this and even made some money in the process.

Yooper Dave

Yup, if allowed, that is a cheaper way to go.

--->Paul

 

[Diamondpilot]

You are doing right by putting in a 14' door. I would consider a wider door though. It makes getting things in and out much easier from the sides of the barn.

Also go spray foam. I have not seen any conventional insulation that sooner or later does not attract mice in a barn. In my case it brought in birds, mice, rats, opossum, and snakes. A real mess. I tore it all out and disposed of it then did spray and rigid foam blue board.

Chris

 

[Guttery_Gipe]

You all bring up excellent points - thank you.

WRT building bigger - one advantage of the 16' walls was that I could add on lean-to sides down the road and get up to 1200 sq ft (50x12 on each side) while keeping the 4 1/2 in 12 roof pitch. I figured building out 1 or even 2 lean-to would be be cheaper than building on in-line. With a house still to build I didnt want to go too hog wild on the barn but did want to leave the option to expand down the road.

Unfortunately a trailer isnt an option for me. But I do really want to be on site. I know Id use these quarters longer term anyway (for in-laws and out-laws if nothing else)

For the load bearing partition wall I was planning to have the contractor install a couple of extra 6x6 poles and build the partition on a 2ft concrete
footing. I would then put an I beam or a 6x12 laminated timber beam on top of this to support the weight of the loft. Joists would be 2x12 in hangers. Would that cut it ?

I know I wont have 8' clear in the loft - but Im hoping for about 6'6". I figure I could vault the ceilings to get the 8' - giving 2 rooms 10x16 approx.

I like Matts suggestion of the double thick wall and I think I'll price that out. One piece of advise I got was that its cheaper to go up and extra 2' than go out but maybe thats not the case. Having read other postings I dont think I would drop below 14' sidewall & door.

I'll also price out a 14x14 door - you guys are right - the extra width will help getting into the corners.

 

[bp fick]

Most townships are wise to the living in part of the pole barn thing. Many here in Northern Michigan no longer turn a blind eye. Just saying. Be very careful you don't put your eggs in the basket only to have it overturned.

 

[hokiebird]

I'm trying to finish up plans for a similar building. For spray foam insulation, there should be no need for soffit or ridge vent. The open cell foam is an adequate vapor and moisture barrier, coat all surfaces so that there is no need to vent. In very cold climates a moisture barrier is sometimes recommended by the contractors (see for example the Icynene website). I'm planning on going with an open-cell foam for my building (in Nebraska).

Friends,

Ive been reading alot of the postings on pole barn construction and picking up some very valuable advice. Im planning on building a 36x48x16 pole barn this spring and wanted to get your thoughts on some questions I have.

For the intended use - Im planning to live in part of the barn while our house is being built so the 16' side walls are to accommodate a loft with 2 bedrooms. Downstairs would be a familyroom/kitchen and a bathroom. (longer term this would be wood shop w/ bathroom & office/storage loft above). These quarters would have a concrete floor w/ underfloor heating and would occupy the back 1/3 of the building with the remainder as the barn with a gravel floor & 12x14 overhead door.

I'll have to contract out the construction so Id like to get your opinions on the following:

1. One builder is quoting for 10' oc posts with the girts bookshelved in joist hangers. This would make fiberglass insulation easier but whats your thoughts on the 10' spacing (6x6PT posts) ?

2. I was planing on a ridge vent & 12' vented overhang on all 4 sides. Is this necessary if I go with closed cell spray foam insulation ?
While spray foam is expensive - I havent seen any postings where people have regretted going with it so thats why Im considering it [ well that and my track record on project completion leads me to expect to be in these temporary quarters for a while ] Im told Ice dams can be an issue on buildings without vented overhangs in this neck of the woods.

3. One neighbor suggested lining the the interior with a vapor barrier and white metal sheeting and then just filling the cavity with blown in cellulose insulation. This would be with the girts on side rather than in hangers but I liked the idea because its a DIY job. Whats your thoughts on this ? should I get the contractor to hang the steel ?

Looking forward to your suggestions.

 

[Guttery_Gipe]

Thank you !

Thankfully our township has no issue with our plans. We consulted with them from the start to understand the contraints. But it is an important consideration so thank you for pointing that out.

Also - not having to vent the ridge and soffit with spray foam is good to know - it will help offset some of the initial costs. Does no soffit lead to problems with ice dams ?

 

[timswi]

Thank you !

Thankfully our township has no issue with our plans. We consulted with them from the start to understand the contraints. But it is an important consideration so thank you for pointing that out.

Also - not having to vent the ridge and soffit with spray foam is good to know - it will help offset some of the initial costs. Does no soffit lead to problems with ice dams ?

Not if the whole roof is foamed...No heat transfer.

 

[o2batsea]

I built my barn with 2 by 6 studs on 24 inch centers. They are 15 foot 9 inch studs sitting on 3 courses of block and a 2 by 6 sill and top plate. The foundation is traditional poured concrete and the inside of the barn has a 4 inch concrete floor with a center drain. I had it wrapped in tyvek and sided it with T-111 which we put two coats of stain on before hanging. The roof is built of engineered trusses that span the 32 foot width. The steel roofing is laid on 2 by 4 sleepers spaced at 24 inches. With the block walls, the inside height to the bottom of the trusses is 17 foot 6, which gives plenty of height to add a loft area at 8 feet. There are two doors on one end, each is 10 wide and 12 high. I can easily get my 23 foot flybridge boat in it.
The walls are built such that regular fiberglass roll type insulation can fit. If a future owner wishes to convert the barn to living space it is already to code as far as framing and foundation go.

 

[Guttery_Gipe]

Wow - seems like an awsome structure.
Reads similar to house construction and probably better build than alot of houses.
Thanks for sharing your ideas - gives me more to think about.
Not sure of the block wall is right for me - but your roof design might work well.

 

[gno242]

Have you ever thought about steel framed? Mine has a 20 year rust warranty, a 60 lbs psf snow load, and a 130 mph wind guarantee. I had it quoted at about 40% less than wood, installed.


You could do a 30 x 40 x 15 vertical roofed shop. Lets assume a 3:12 roof pitch so your peak height would be almost 19'. If you considered steel I'd go 12 gauge framing. 20 year rust warranty.

Of the 40 ft length I'd leave 20 ft open then have the remaining 20 ft lofted for a 30 x 20 two room setup. Make the lower level a 7ft tall story, the upper level a 7 ft tall story,and the one foot remaining would play as a leeway for the framing between both stories.Two 15 x 20 rooms are large, I'd put like a 6x8 restroom in the center of the two rooms. To support this arrangement you'd have to have the framing on 2' centers and have a column of supports on the lower level. These supports would play to your benefit when framing out the kitchen, office area, and what ever else you may do? closets,ect. The normal spacing of a non lofted steel shop this size would be 3.5 ft centers, I think, something close that made mathematical sense. The company that engineered and installed the steel frame I have didn't do the insulation, drywall, foor, or electric. I just hire subs to complete it. I was bored this morning so I did a little sketch. I also included a photo of my steel shop/office.

 

[Guttery_Gipe]

I hadnt really given alot of thought to a metal building to be honest.
I thought it would give me too many complications for adding a loft with electrical, plumbing and insulation.

But that might be just because of my lack of familiarity - I dont have any experience with a metal buiding. Some of the pictures Ive seen for metal buildings look good so maybe I'll ask around to see who locally have had success with metal (my immediate neighbors went timber).

Thanks for the pointer.

 

[ovrszd]

Up North, it is not uncommon to buy a used trailer home, park it on the site, and then sell it afterwards when the construction is far enough along.

My Uncle did this and even made some money in the process.

Yooper Dave

Yep, that's what I did. Lived in the trailer for 18 months while building a house. Sold it for what I gave for it so basically lived 18 months at no cost. If you aren't picky you can buy a trailer for what you'll spend on materials to make the shop building liveable and then recoup all that money. Good luck with the project!!!

 

[RWTschoeke]

Greetings from a fellow cheesehead in Waupaca county. I am currently in the process of having a 48x72x14 built with the poles going in next week. I am using MPB Builders out of Ripon who came highly recommended from all who I had contacted and have been impressed with their service thus far. If you are still shopping builders, give them a call. They'll be comapable to a Walters but pricier than a Cleary. No negative feedback from others who have used them.