Plow depth and EPA

[Looking4new]

Welcome to TBN from northern Ontario. I can't help you with your problem.

 

[bja105]

A moldboard plow will dig a furrow 1/2 as deep as the width of the furrow, give or take an inch or so. So a 2x14 plow will go 6-8" deep.
The same plow will move the soil to the right one furrow width per plowing. So that 2x14 will move the furrow 14" per year, if you plow in the same direction each year. In that scenario, the dead furrow in the center of the field would get 28" wider per year. Usually, farmers alternate directions annually, so that the soil stays put.

Other implement may move soil or objects more, but I don't know enough about them to comment. I don't call myself a moldboard plow expert.

 

[aczlan]

Do you know what size plow was used (or a make/model)?

Aaron Z

 

[Fossil Farm]

Plow depth is typically 6 to 8 inches. If you plowed up a grenade or artillery shell, I think you would notice. Anyway, plowing does not "move" the soil to other parts of the farm if that is what EPA is contending. It all stays roughly in the same small footprint, and in the same field. All the plow does is turn the soil over to bury the sod or surface trash of the previous crop. Rain and surface water moves soil much more than plowing. If EPA keeps giving you fits, you may want to talk to an ag. engineer or the state Extension office.

 

[Baby Grand]

So, if I interpret their claim correctly,
they buried the munitions,
in what anyone might reasonably construe as farm land,
to a depth so shallow that a plow could disturb them.

Sounds like a case of either stupidity or negligence, to me.
Of course, we are talking about the actions of a Cold War government with completely unchecked war powers.

I feel for you, your family and the situation that you are presented with.
It makes my brain numb, just trying to make sense of.
I wish you the greatest good luck in your quest for justice and reason.

 

[radioman]

All I can say is wow! another wait till after the fact and stick it to you situtation that has never been your fault. I think you need a good lawyer.. no.. scratch that's really good lawyer that understands farming. I would not stand by just because the past haunting you now and the gumbermint wants you to pay. I agree with other poster that pull type plowing only flips the soil to the other side and depending on the type of tractor and plow you have tells you the depth. Get the plows used documented and say - it cannot pull ammo out of the ground if it was buried over a foot deep. Even a rototiller would only go max 6-8 inches deep and it only moves soil one foot behind it. Do you have documents saying how deep the stuff was buried?

 

[jenkinsph]

Good luck with this endeavor you will need it. Greta Van Susterand (FOX news) would want to hear about this. I am pulling for you, but you need some real help and exposure to deal with the EPA.

 

[jeff9366]

A moldboard plow will dig a furrow 1/2 as deep as the width of the furrow, give or take an inch or so. So a 2x14 plow will go 6-8" deep.
The same plow will move the soil to the right one furrow width per plowing. So that 2x14 will move the furrow 14" per year, if you plow in the same direction each year. In that scenario, the dead furrow in the center of the field would get 28" wider per year. Usually, farmers alternate directions annually, so that the soil stays put.

Other implement may move soil or objects more, but I don't know enough about them to comment. I don't call myself a moldboard plow expert.

All true.

Moldboard plows back then were pretty much restricted to 12", 14" and 16" because that was the size plow a Ford tractor could pull. in either two bottom or three bottom configuration.

WW1 munitions 'rise' in the soils of French farms every Spring and are disposed of by the French army.

 

[BAP]

I would:
1) Find a Great Lawyer
2) Contact the Department of Defense as they were involved in this back years ago.
3) Find out what the company was that ten the munitions plant and see if they are still around. If they still exist, then find a way to go after them for the liability.
4) Contact every Senator and Congressmen in your area and plead your case, and ask for help.
5) Depending on how long ago the real estate transaction took place, you may be able to go after the previous owners for Non-Disclosure of the buried material.

 

[Pherron2008]

Thanks for your reply, regardless.
My wife is Canadian, and she is so angry about this that she is asking me to consider relocating our family to Canada.

 

[Pherron2008]

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the support.

 

[Pherron2008]

I don't remember the size plow. I think it was a two bottom. We loosely specialized chores. My uncle, partnering with my Dad always did the plowing. My tractor job was to cultivate corn. We all helped get in the hay and other tasks.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[tjcarguy]

I'd hire an undocumented to plow ---Trevor

 

[Pherron2008]

Thanks for your reply. We do have a great lawyer, who actually helped draft the law the EPA is using against us. He says that this was not the intended purpose for the law. The EPA has contacted the agencies you mentioned, and is allocating percentages of damages. Our involvement is simply that we were owners of the land. The fact that we weren't aware of the buried explosives, much less had no role in burying them is irrelevant, due to the provisions of CERCLA.
Ironically, the EPA has found the Department of Defense (formerly War Department) harmless, as well as the Dept of Army and Navy, for whom the explosives were intended.

We went the route of local elected officials a few years ago (we are nearing the 10th anniversary of the EPA claims against us), and didn't get anywhere. Once we get the final claim from EPA we will try again.
Again, thanks for replying.

 

[Utopia Texas]

Just out of curiosity.....have you personally witnessed any of this ordinance just sitting on top of the ground where your family plowed in the past?

 

[Dr_Zinj]

At the very least you should be able to deduct 100% of the costs of remediation from your taxes. If not, then you need to take them to court, very publicly, with invitations to major news networks, and the ACLU.

 

[HCJtractor]

Are they actually billing you? What amount are they claiming you owe?? Do they have more clean up planned?

 

[oldpilgrim]

One reason given - our plowing had spread the buried munitions around, thus making the cleanup more expensive.

total BS.

Your family would have seen something on the surface of the ground sometime during the past 50 years.

They just don't want to foot he bill.

Get a lawyer.