People with 3 pt hoes/ TLB's

[jdfire]

I've owned my tractor with a subframe backhoe for over 15 years so I don't remember what the additional cost for the backhoe was. I probably couldn't even justify the cost of a tractor at the time, but isn't that the case with most toys?? Anyways, I love having the backhoe. I've dug out dozens of stumps with it, including some so big that the hardest part was getting the free stump out of the hole. I'd rather use a backhoe than a shovel anyday.

 

[AndyMA]

Redneck -- do a search for 3pt hoes vs. subframe and after reading the volumes of threads on the subject....I believe you'll come to the conclusion, like I did, that a subframe (at any cost) is the only way to go. After using mine on stumps....it was very obvious that I needed that extra support.

It all depends on the size of your tractor. For all the small tractors (let's say in the New Holland line TC55 or smaller) a subframe is essential. For larger machines like my TN75D a 3 pt works out fine when it is attached with rugged 3 pt solid bars like mine.

Andy

 

[Ken45101]

I've dug out dozens of stumps with it, including some so big that the hardest part was getting the free stump out of the hole. I'd rather use a backhoe than a shovel anyday.

Is this a larger tractor/backhoe? Care to share your techniques? I haven't been so successful in digging/breaking the root systems on anything but smaller stumps. (But I just have a small Kubota B21 TLB).

Ken

 

[PILOON]

There is another option out there.

Called a 'tow hoe' or 'cricket'.
It has legs near the bucket arm with wheels at the other end that swap positions for towing from site to site.
It digs as deep and as fast as a backhoe attachement but is slower to move about.
To move it around you jack the legs off the ground amd pull yourself with the 'stick' using the hydraulics.
Once proficient you literally hopity hop all over the place and dig quite rapidly.
Great for trenching runs but difficult to work close to , example, foundations.
Very stable and probably more so than backhoe on a CUT due to low C/G and wide stance.
I have trenched water lines in areas that I never would dare to drive my CUT.
While great fun and very useful, it sits under a tarp and have not used it in 4 years.
Sure glad that I did not invest heavily.
Big downside is that since it is 'bucket propelled' it tears up the grassy areas real bad so that it is only a 'unfinished site' tool.
Before mini excavators it was a very popular rental unit around here and still great for trenching hedges.

Don't ask for pics as it lies under 4-5 ft of snow(and tarp).

 

[mwb]

My 7.5' frame-mount hoe cost about $6K USD when purchased with the tractor. I would say to date (~150 hours of hoeing) it's probably paid for half of its cost. I've installed septic lines, buried a 500 gallon propane tank and trenched for the lines to house, buried gutter drain tile, dug footers for a retaining wall, installed 40' of 2' diameter culvert pipe, dug a garden pond, removed several large stumps, placed a heavy concrete fountain in the garden pond, removed all the old shrubs from in front of the house, buried the neighbors dog, buried a dead deere. Have other projects planned for it this spring too. Need I say more?

Will it ever fully pay for itself? Maybe, maybe not. But I chose to buy one because it's convenient and fun to do yourself without rental and transport hassles, and it really saves your own body too.

I have not been paid to do anything with it, and don't plan to ever try. I will ocassionally help out a neighbor or friend, but that's it. Didn't buy it to make money.

...buried a dead deere You probably meant 'deer' but I like the suggestion...

 

[Ken45101]

...buried a dead deere You probably meant 'deer' but I like the suggestion...

LOL. Well maybe if his equipment is not green, he meant what he wrote

Ken

 

[3RRL]

For that kind of money you might find a used true industrial TLB.
You would have a stronger and larger backhoe plus a tractor with bucket. I would love to have an excavator, but that is pretty specific and IMHO not as versatile as a TLB. But for specific needs it can't be beat. On the other hand, there are some excavator trenching and stuff that can be done with a backhoe or even a 3pt backhoe. Just not as efficiently. In my case I have a small 3pt backhoe and I wish it was larger. But nevertheless, I have done all kinds of projects and over the last 4 years, I'm pretty sure it's paid for itself. It's there anytime a backhoe project pops up ... no planning for rental time, just hook it up and use it.

The biggest drawback to renting is the time and effort to get the unit from a distant source over to my place.
It's pretty far away from the nearest city that has rental yards. Your situation may not be like that though. Even so, just having to arrange the time, phone calls, pick up and delivery are a waste of time in my case. Plus whatever you spend on rental is gone forever. Sure your particular project gets done but when another pops up you either neglect it or put it off until you can make time for the rental thing. Pretty soon, if you have enough projects, it adds up to the same amount as the purchase. What you'd have then is your projects complete but no backhoe.

The biggest drawback to hiring it done is similar. Project gets done and you pay for them.
Other projects come and same thing occurs as above. Enough projects hired out and you spent more than what you could buy the backhoe for but left with no backhoe. In purchasing one, you have your projects complete PLUS the backhoe. Convenience is a HUGE factor in my opinion and having one around is ideal. If your projects are ones you can do on weekends you won't lose work time. It just takes longer.

You will need to make time to use it, but if you're considering renting you still have to do that. Overall, if you can swing it, buy the backhoe and do the work yourself. It might take you longer, but you end up doing it no matter what and you have seat time. You learn a lot too. After my Log Home was completed, I haven't used my backhoe that much. But for all the trenching, footings, rock removal, etc, I saved a fortune doing that myself...maybe 3 (or more) times what I paid for my little 8' Nardi 3pt backhoe. Now I still own the backhoe. I just put it on last week to remove two large Oaks digging them out. So there is always something that pops up. You won't be sorry to own one.
Just make sure it's of adequate size.

 

[Gittyup]

LOL. Well maybe if his equipment is not green, he meant what he wrote

Ken

Freudian slip. I meant deer. Couldn't be Deere, cause they never die!

 

[jdfire]

Is this a larger tractor/backhoe? Care to share your techniques? I haven't been so successful in digging/breaking the root systems on anything but smaller stumps. (But I just have a small Kubota B21 TLB).

Ken

Hi Ken,

Mine's a smaller tractor, a Ford-New Holland 1620 (27HP). No special technique, just keep digging around the stump, breaking the roots I can with the backhoe, exposing the bigger ones and cutting those with a chain saw. Eventually everything breaks loose.

 

[Q-Saw]

When I bought my tractor, the salesman actually tried to talk me OUT of buying the backhoe. He said most people don't use it enough to justify the expense. I had to appreciate his honesty, but I bought it anyway.

I had a trenching project that needed to get done and I figured a contractor would have charged me at least half the price of the backhoe (about $6,000 when I bought the tractor as I recall). So, I figured the first job would pay for at least half of the backhoe and I would still have it for other projects (and I have used it sporadically since - mostly it sits).

I have an ongoing project to control surface water drainage across my property that I work at when I want to. I could never have this luxury with a rental unit. Renting is all rush rush rush to get your money's worth. I work at my own relaxed pace, and if a deer walks by (not a Deere!) I stop and enjoy the experience. In short, I enjoy the "work" much more than if I rented. It's not the destination, it's the journey.

One thing the salesman did talk me into was a subframe. I wanted a 3PH backhoe, figuring I could sell it more easily. He talked me into the subframe, and I'm glad he did - the stresses are tremendous.

I haven't hired out with the backhoe, but I have thought about it. The small size could be an advantage getting into backyards and such, but I wish mine dug deeper. The mini-excavator is a great idea if you can find one for the right price. But, if you need a loader on the job (say for hauling and placing drainage stone, etc.) you would need to make a second trip to go get your tractor - that bites into your profits.


Streamin - switching over from 3PH to the backhoe is fairly easy after you do it a couple of times. The hardest part on mine is finding a wrench to remove two bolts holding the 3-point arms in. The rest is pulling pins. The back hoe connects very easily - you hook up the hydraulic lines first and use the backhoe itself to maneuver it into position. Once in position, you slide in the pins (I'm sure I'm not using the proper term here) and you're done. I'd say 15 or 20 minutes from one to the other. It helps if you have put the backhoe on a flat and level surface when you stored it.


- Marty

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...switching over from 3PH to the backhoe is fairly easy after you do it a couple of times. The hardest part on mine is finding a wrench to remove two bolts holding the 3-point arms in. The rest is pulling pins. The back hoe connects very easily - you hook up the hydraulic lines first and use the backhoe itself to maneuver it into position. Once in position, you slide in the pins (I'm sure I'm not using the proper term here) and you're done. I'd say 15 or 20 minutes from one to the other. It helps if you have put the backhoe on a flat and level surface when you stored it.


- Marty

Do you have any pictures of the mounting brackets, subframe, etc.?

For that matter does anyone have pictures of their subframes or mounting methods for their small backhoes? I'd like to compare the different brands and systems to see the advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Q-Saw]

Farmer -

No pictures that would show you detail, and my tractor's a 3-hour drive from where I am now.

Sorry I couldn't help out.

- Marty

 

[Redneck in training]

Redneck -- do a search for 3pt hoes vs. subframe and after reading the volumes of threads on the subject....I believe you'll come to the conclusion, like I did, that a subframe (at any cost) is the only way to go. After using mine on stumps....it was very obvious that I needed that extra support.

Thanks for the answer. I am goig to buy subframe mounted BH.

 

[Gittyup]

One technique that I use (but I'm far from an expert) is to use the bucket curl to do the heavy work. It has the greatest amount of power. Also, on big roots I try to curl and retract the bucket so the cutting edge between the teeth slices at the root. After a few passes even big roots can be cut and torn apart. It can take time and patience.

 

[brandoro]

I have a 3pt BH and for what I use it for it has been great. Having said that, if you are planning to use the BH a lot for stump work then you need as strong an attachment as you can get. I have only dug out 3-4 stumps and not very big ones but that puts a fierce amount of stress on things. For straight digging for weeping tiles, drains and such I think the 3pt setup is good, stumps, not so good. Not that I have broken or otherwise damaged anything, so far.. But I still don't plan to do any significant number of stump removals.

 

[Ken45101]

I work at my own relaxed pace, and if a deer walks by (not a Deere!) I stop and enjoy the experience. In short, I enjoy the "work" much more than if I rented. It's not the destination, it's the journey.

Very well said! You are right.

Hi Ken,

Mine's a smaller tractor, a Ford-New Holland 1620 (27HP). No special technique, just keep digging around the stump, breaking the roots I can with the backhoe, exposing the bigger ones and cutting those with a chain saw. Eventually everything breaks loose.

Ah ha! The chain saw is your secret! I try to keep mine away from the dirt!

Some of the trees here have major tap root going strait down. Brute force is needed!

Ken

 

[newbury]

Late to this discussion but:
gittyup:

buried the neighbors dog, buried a dead deere. Have other projects planned for it this spring too. Need I say more?

I too thought you might of meant meant a dead JD, but noted you did not say the condition of the dog

re: cutting tree roots:
Are there any "attachments" for the bucket that would slip over it to allow it to be used more as a blade? I see a lot of tree root cutting in my future.

There is a video link somewhere here (Kubota forum?) showing someone hooking up/unhooking a BH on a CUT. Looks like it's a little more difficult then just running into the thing, but not much.

 

[Jackfr]

We got rid of an older AC industrial backhoe to cut down on maintenance and purchased a 10' woods 3pt backhoe that we use on our F6640 and F5000. Its not the Industrial but it gets the job done. We put in approx 2500' of 4" driscol pipe last year average depth 4'. Many "pebbles" had to be removed to get the trench through usually 1 cu yard size and larger and it handled it well. We are installing an additional 1500' of livestock water lines 5' deep this year, so I would say it has paid for itself already as to have someone come in around here is around $75 per hour. We paid around $9000 US for it and I don't have to deal with the additional engine/machine maintenance. When it's not used it goes against a wall in the shop out of the way. We have a TC45DA also which I wouldn't think of attaching it to with out a sub frame. Two of our tractors have FELs so I don't miss the loader on the backhoe. If your going 8' deep though even with a 10' hoe you will be moving alot and to sit yourself sideways to clean that stream will be difficult but not impossible. The best thing as others have said if you own it, its there when you need it.

 

[POC]

I got my Mahindra 3215 4x4 with the FEL and BH (subframe) for $21,200. It was a 2007 model and hadn't been off the lot, I bought it in the spring of 2008.
I love having it around. I can go out and vent my frustrations!