Our forest fire precautions

/ Our forest fire precautions #1  

RedDirt

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
469
Location
Northern Idaho
Tractor
Kubota BX23, Wards 16HP HST Garden Tractor, (previous) D2 Logging Cat
Forest fires are a constant summer threat where live. This year it is about as bad as it gets and later in the summer it will be extreme.

Some of our fire prevention/preparation precautions:

Fire safe zones around buildings, 100ft if possible, 50ft minimum; no brush, dry vegetation, raked to dirt, gravel, or grass. No plantings close to house.

Trim low branches of tall surrounding trees to break the fire "ladder effect".

Roof sprinklers. When I built I used metal roofing and installed five rainbird (impact) sprinklers at the house and four at the shop/office. I ran dedicated pipe through the attic to outside valves. The sprinklers penetrate the roof at the ridge; I used small roof jacks available at building supply stores to seal the pipes. I tapped into the main before the house pressure reducer: waters about 50ft beyond the perimeter of the buildings. Not as "pretty" but a similar system can be surface mounted. (As a bonus we can run the roof sprinklers on dry, hot, days. Settles the dust and adds an evaporative cooling effect around the buildings.)

Keep rain gutters cleaned

Hydrants and fire hose. When laying the water main to house I put in a larger-than-required main line (1 1/2" dia) and stubbed up two hydrants with dedicated fire hose fittings (away from the buildings so there is access to them if there is a building fire). We have 600 ft cotton jacket and bone fide fire nozzles on two permanent outside (covered, quick-remove-lid) racks. Fire hose can be had on the cheap on ebay as hotels & such need to update regularly. The stuff is old but brand new and normally very suitable for the typically lower domestic water pressures. If buried hydrant lines are out of the question you can always lay down some PVC or Poly pipe on the ground to extend your coverage.

Make a short list and a long list of evacuation items. The short one gets you stuff you can gather in 5 minutes and the long one an hour.

Keep some evac bags packed. A coupe of days of clothes & personal items. We also store things like photos, old tax records, home/shop inventory list (for insurance claim, photo inventory too), computer back-ups, and such in one central location for grab-n-go.

Know evac routes out or area and have a predetermined meeting area for household members. Have a central communication contact that can relay information if members get separated/out of contact with each other.

Buy and learn to use a fire/police radio scanner. When we hear a siren or hear a spotter plane/helicopter the scanner goes on with local frequencies already programed. This is first hand information and will enable educated fight-or-flight decisions.
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #2  
Very good ideas!

I'd add storing insurance information online somewhere - pictures lists etc. Can be done in a free Google account
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #3  
You covered most of what we are doing: we have a couple of checklists of what to do: one for the longer time frame and the other for a quick run. We have those posted in the kitchen on the fridge where it will be seen often :).

I asked the local fire department to come out and talk over my property and preparations. It was useful and I am doing some additional things, but the one thing that stood out was their comments about declining water pressure during a fire because of other home owners using large volumes of water and the fire department using more. They recommended having a water supply on the property since I am a good distance away from a hydrant.

Our water line from the road is 1" and I have 50psi at the house, but I have an irrigation line for fruit trees that comes off the main before the house. I do plan to put sprinklers on the roof, probably Buckner 261s and I plan to lay some additional 1.5" pipe to a couple of locations so I can put a heavy duty sprinkler or maybe a hose.

Good luck!
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #4  
Great tips, RedDirt!

We just had to evacuate last Thursday afternoon... from the office only as the fire never got closer than 4 miles to the house. I'll attach a photo looking west from our office.

There was only one road open out of town for evacuation (out of 4, fire had the other three closed), and at the "lower" end, traffic control was not done correctly. It took us almost two hours to traverse the 10 miles home. This is a country road with only two stop signs. Bumper to bumper gridlocked. If the fire had turned east we'd have been fleeing on foot.

There's already meetings being held to make some better plans for this town to evacuate.

Phil
 

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/ Our forest fire precautions
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Phils said:
Great tips, RedDirt!

We just had to evacuate last Thursday afternoon... from the office only as the fire never got closer than 4 miles to the house. I'll attach a photo looking west from our office.

There was only one road open out of town for evacuation (out of 4, fire had the other three closed), and at the "lower" end, traffic control was not done correctly. It took us almost two hours to traverse the 10 miles home. This is a country road with only two stop signs. Bumper to bumper gridlocked. If the fire had turned east we'd have been fleeing on foot.

There's already meetings being held to make some better plans for this town to evacuate.

Phil

Thats a might scary photo! And fleeing afoot is not an attractive option. None the less, if you live in the woods it's best to have several escape routes and strategies planned ahead, even foot routes.

The water district has a sizable reservoir at the end of our driveway, a couple hundred yards away, that's our "last stand" outpost. I'll bring my oxy tank, painting masks, a cloth tarp and a scrap of metal roofing if there's time. We'll jump in the lake and make an "air tent" over us.

I've fought shipboard fires in the Navy, forest fires for the Forest Service, and home fires as a volunteer fireman. All fires are scary when they are nearby and you are a homeowner.

On our 40 acres in Oregon I was taping the sheetrock on my hand built home when the gypboard turned orange. I looked around out our picture window to see a thin column of smoke between me and the sun. It was three miles away but in an hour it was a 1200 acre fire and coming our way! I fired up he D2 and began shoving whatever fire trail I could along our property line. Neighbors showed up and old rancher Grizz said, "Aw I wouldn't worry about doin' that; that fire's two miles away." Well a bomber files through and I'm quite certain he carried embers along with him because two minutes later we had a spot fire just on the other side on my line. Then flash, another, then another. I'm pumped up now running the Cat blade right into the flames trying to squash the fire. Fire's 80ft from our property line and I'm thinking, "One more fire jump, it's on the property, and I've got to get outta here and evacuate." Another bomber flies overhead and lands a direct hit of borate on me an' the Cat. Sure was glad to have my logging canopy! Then I'm climbing about the steepest incline I' ever been up, about to crest the summit when a D6 flops over the edge headed right for me! I slam the brakes to the floor, he brakes hard, catastrophe averted. Right then I thought "OK, now it's up to the big boys". No sooner the thought flashed, the wind clocked 180 degrees, the overdue afternoon up-canyon wind kicked in, and the fire reversed and burnt back to the origin. Whew!!!!

Forest Service fought the fire through the night into the next day. Ended up around 3600 acres. Burned up a firetruck, hoses and almost got the crew that was between the main fire and our spot fires after the wind shifted. Ironically the cause of the fire was traced to a Forest Service "controlled burn" two weeks previous. The fire went down a root and smoldered underground for two weeks!

When I got back to the house in my newly red painted Cat the wife and neighbors already had the truck, trailer, car and car-trailer packed ready to go. Getting this close to being burned out left a lasting impression.

That was twenty five years ago. We still live in the woods but continue to fret every summer. We hope our precautions and planning will help if it is ever called upon to do so but dearly hope it will never be needed.
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #6  
WOW RedDirt! What an experience!

I got training but I never had to fight any real fires in the Navy. I was on a sub and we were lucky. As you know, fires on subs can turn deadly very fast.

Over the last thirty years that we've lived at our place we've had close calls before. I have 300' of defensible space now... clearing manzanita and brush is what I do every winter, extending that space.

Often during high fire conditions I keep the fifthwheel hooked up and we can evacuate in minutes if we are home. And since I'm self-employed, we WILL be home if there's a fire nearby. If we aren't home, we have insurance.

Phil
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #7  
Great story Reddirt! You should write a book.

Podunk
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #8  
My experience with fires this year, last year, and the year before have made an impression and I am trying to do something for a fire protection strategy beyond creating as reasonable a defensible space as I can in my situation.

The last fire that threatened us a month or so ago, embers and not the radiant heat were the primary source of danger. Another fire a couple weeks later never threatened us directly, but if the wind had shifted, we would have been exposed to embers again. With those experiences in my, I think it is worth thinking about what can be done for protection and at what cost. I have no plans to fight a fire. I plan to treat my house and key parts of my property if time allows before I run. So, that is the path I am going down.

I am just starting to get information about some of the options beyond a garden hose. I quickly realized that is not a reasonable solution. And, in our first fire the power went out, so anything electric based is problematic without a generator handy.

I have looked at the compressed air foam systems CAFS that could be used in rural residential situations. They are 6-10k, depending on the volume of the tank. I am not sure how long the foam lasts and they might be better suited to other applications, just don't know enough yet.

Fire retardants such as Phos-Check can be sprayed and might be useful for preapplication to critical areas before running. There are homeowner type kits that are available for this.

Gels such as Barricade seem reasonable because they can be sprayed on a roof and under eaves where embers can infiltrate and the gel stays on longer, at least as I understand it now.

There are also some other foam units that can either be attached to a garden hose or a larger fire type hose with a water source and pump to apply the foam. These at least wet things down in a spray and run strategy and the foam will hang on longer than water.

With a reliable water source, a sprinkler system with larger volume sprinklers like the Buckner and Nelson agricultural sprinklers can provide some defense and there are also ones that can be attached to fascia boards to deter embers. It is the water source and having enough GPM and pressure that seems to be the key there.

My current thinking is to have some combination of a foam and gel application where I can pretreat areas before leaving. After that pretreatment, then I could turn a ball value and start the sprinkler system and then head out. Make sense?

In addition to the other preparations to do --- create defensible space and have an evacuation plan -- it is worthwhile for me to think about a pretreat and run plan also.

Anyone tried the gels or foams for a rural residential/farm applications?
 
/ Our forest fire precautions
  • Thread Starter
#9  
I should clarify. That "last outpost" option above is if we are for any reason trapped here. We will definitely leave if given the chance. Basic plan is to pack and water for as long as we can then leave the roof sprinklers on and boogie. But it's like the foot route...plan for the worst and hope for the best. When getting ready to sail to Mexico for a year we practiced (often) in much worse conditions than we ever encountered. Though we had some nasty blows a few time there was alway peace of mind knowing we could handle worse.

Phils - I replied to your PM...I guess we're neighbors :) .

The ship fire was the worst. Toluene, France "68 or '69. The guided missile frigate, flagship of our destroyer squadron, blew up when lighting off their boilers when we were called at 0200 to skedaddle down to Crete for the "three day war". Killed three guys, one was an ex shipmate. He'd gotten out but went back below for his buddy. Bummer.

I had the quarterdeck watch at the time and just stayed there on watch half a day, one pier away. But there was still plenty 'nough time to get my hands dirty. We had four re-flashes and fought that fire for three days. Used up every can of foam in the Mediterranean fleet.

I work at home too. But I tele-commute, not self employed. Nice to be here and not a drive awaywhen the sky gets smoky.

hotwheels,
A member posted on the bx24 fire wagon post wrote yesterday about CAFS foam systems and got my interest. But at 6-10 grand...well that has dampened my enthusiasm. Let us know about the other foam systems as you gather info and keep us updated on what you decide.

I have thought in the past about getting a storage tank and a gas fire pump. Never wanted to have it above ground taking up space. Now I have a hoe:) . Back to thinking about a tank underground. Anyone got one of those?
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #10  
If you bought a tank and pump you could look at places like TheFireStore.com. They have forestry hose and pales of foam. you can buy the eductor which helps siphon the foam out of the bucket and pushes it through your nozzle. This is also effective and cheaper jsut a little more complicated to use. Thttp://www.darcoinc.com/fire-cisterns.htm is a link if you are not close to any municipal water mains. It will help you store water to set up your sprinkler systems. We do not get such a large fire but do have fast moving fires that stay closer to the ground. Most of the areas do not have municipal water and this is how are fire apparatus get water to refill or fight fire. Most insurance companies will give you a iscount on your insurance if you install these. You may even be able to find a grant throught the state to help. Not to mention the nearest fire station loves seeing the pipes to these sticking out of the ground. RedDirt is right on the money with everything he has posted. I have heard of the Gels to coat the roof and they seem to work well. I do not know where to get them though.
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #11  
Hello Charlie and RedDirt,
Here is the latest ... it is hot, dry, and windy here and will be for a bit, so I became nervous and decided on a short term solution that I hope will lead to a longer-term strategy.

I bought some Barricade Gel and the residential applicator Barricade International, Inc. - Fire Blocking Gel with the idea that I will spray this on the house propane tank, etc... and then run.

If there is time, then I will use one of these foam kits

Scotty Foam Kits for Firefighting
to spray a perimeter and the trees

I have a 2000+ gallon pond that I can use if the county water supply is not available. So, I need a pump, and that is next on the list. Actually, I think I need two pumps: one for the foam and gel setups and the other for the third step: spray the surrounding landscape using something like this:

PRODUCTS

If the fire department can't get to me and I have the time before running, these these steps might help. They will probably cost a 2-4 k, depending on the pumps.

I also need another water source, probably a 2500 gallon tank or a new swim spa :)).

I have not ruled out the compressed air foam systems, but it seems the gel may offer more protection for my structure than the foam, but I am still working on that.

At least there are some options it is just a matter of sorting out the design of the system and how to make it idiot proof when everything is going to **** fast.

Thanks
JR

ps: I also bought some econoforest hoses ECONOFORESTツョ A Commercial grade Garden hose & Forestry Fire Hose with Garden hose connectors and (Drinking Water Certified) for use with the gel and foam kits.

I am thinking of getting something like this for the gel and foam pump
Home Firefighting Systems - Professional firefighting equipment for homeowners and ranchers including portable firefighter pumps, foam & gel eductors, hoses, nozzles and accessories.
and something like this for the sprinkler system, but I am unsure about this one
Honda Power Equipment - WH20
 
/ Our forest fire precautions
  • Thread Starter
#12  
hotwheels,
Thanks very much for the research. I spent a lot of time at the sites you offered, especially Barricade.

For me, Barricade seems to be the best choice. Looks like I'd need the home kit (3/4" garden hose eductor nozzle + 4gal gel/foam + instruction video = $326) plus an additional case of gel/foam (4 gal = $256) to do my 2000sqft home and 1600sqft shop/office. Another couple/few gallons could save my 1200sqft 3-sided shed if I install roll down tarps across the front for something for the foam to stick to. I'll have to do some actual surface calculations to see if this is enough. With my metal roofs I might even need less. I think $600 a viable amount for decent protection of the house and shop. (No good gelling the shed now if I can't protect the face.)

Barricade's published shelf life of three years is a bit of a concern. They say with proper storage it can be much longer. If I can start with the above amount then stagger replacement supplies, 1 case, on a 3-6-9 year cycle thats only $85/year. Maybe the local volunteers would take 3 year stuff as a write off and one could keep a fresh supply at reasonable cost.


Why would you want an additional system like Scotty's foam? It seem like Scotty's foam is more of an active firefighting tool rather than Barrricade's gel coat and evacuate.

Where did you purchase the Barricade? At the Placerville outlet?

I couldn't find a water pressure/volume requirement for the "Big Gun" impact sprayers. Do you know what's required to run one?
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #13  
RedDirt,

The gel products like Barricade offer some structure protection at a reasonable cost. I am still thinking all this through, but I think it is the long term solution to protecting my house before I would have to leave.

I might go for just an all gel solution, but I thought at this point I can use the foam on some perimeter areas that I would just soak down, or put the foam inline with a larger sprinkler.

I did get the Barricade at the Placerville place --- it is close to me and I could have it immediately, so I took that route.

I have not yet found the water requirements for the big gun type sprinkler, but they look substantial. I saw one at the Placerville outlet and they are hefty. The gentleman there said that he has installed them with timers so they spray every "x minutes so as to use water more effectively. That gets more complicated, but somehow I like the idea of looking back at a big wall of water as I am driving out the driveway. I am going to call Nelson on Monday to find out about the sprinkler, but there are some other options I am looking at, so I will keep you posted on my progress.

Best,
JR
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #15  
I would like to add a cistern to my home for fire-fighting and irrigation back-up...

I looked into it and the permitting and engineering is very expensive and the HOA... even the Fire Department didn't seem enthusiastic and the building dept is very concerned about seismic safety.

Anyone here run into problems installing one?
 
/ Our forest fire precautions
  • Thread Starter
#16  
ultrarunner said:
I would like to add a cistern to my home for fire-fighting and irrigation back-up...

I looked into it and the permitting and engineering is very expensive and the HOA... even the Fire Department didn't seem enthusiastic and the building dept is very concerned about seismic safety.

Anyone here run into problems installing one?

Isn't a cistern just a tank that is filled with rainwater run-off, usually from roof downspouts?

Are the engineering concerns structural or sanitary?

I had wondered hot to keep an underground tank "fresh". I wonder what the procedure is and how one maintains a cistern. Seems in underground cistern could be as simple as a buried septic tank filled with fresh water.

Hotwheels,
I thought those big guns would demand a bunch of volume. Their smallest requires 40psi, 27GPM and shoots a 147' diameter stream. The biggest was 130psi, 1210GPM and 620 dia circle! You'd need 1620gal storage for just the small sprinkler for just one hour run time. But it would be neat to have the "little gun" mounted 15ft-30ft in the air on a beefed up antenna tower.
 
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/ Our forest fire precautions #17  
RedDirt said:
Isn't a cistern just a tank that is filled with rainwater run-off, usually from roof downspouts?

Are the engineering concerns structural or sanitary?

I had wondered hot to keep an underground tank "fresh". I wonder what the procedure is and how one maintains a cistern. Seems in underground cistern could be as simple as a buried septic tank filled with fresh water.

I was thinking of something like a septic tank...

I think living in a big city is the problem... the concerns so far are erosion and earthquake and safety?
 
/ Our forest fire precautions
  • Thread Starter
#18  
ultrarunner said:
... the concerns so far are erosion and earthquake and safety?

I don't understand. Is this the Bay Area property you are having difficulty with? Are there specific documented soils or geotech problems where you live? Is the proposed cistern above or below ground? Is your property on a steep slope?

The company I work for (tele-commute) has put some fairly outlandish features into some of the upper upper class homes we've built in the Bay Area. A cistern seems fairly mundane by comparison.
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #19  
RedDirt said:
I don't understand. Is this the Bay Area property you are having difficulty with? Are there specific documented soils or geotech problems where you live? Is the proposed cistern above or below ground? Is your property on a steep slope?

The company I work for (tele-commute) has put some fairly outlandish features into some of the upper upper class homes we've built in the Bay Area. A cistern seems fairly mundane by comparison.

The property is within the Oakland City limits and also governed by a Home Owner's Association which has evolved from it's main purpose of road maintenance when it was formed 60 years.

The area was originally set up for horses and only 2 of the 400 homes now have horses... that's another story about what happens when new comers move in and don't like livestock, tractors, etc.. This is the same city that requires a permit to remove any tree... even dead ones... although no permit fee is charged once the city arborists determines the tree is actually dead.

I would like to go underground...

Thanks for posting the steps you've taken in the event of Fire...
 
/ Our forest fire precautions #20  
 
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