Ok whats wrong with this pic

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Don't most dry clutch tractors have a drain hole in the bottom to drain condensation? I've seen them with cotter pins (jiggle pins) in them to keep dirt from plugging them up. Design flaw?
Kim

The last time I was in my local JD dealer back in the fall, I was shown a two year old 5603 that was in the shop and split. It looked just like the posted photographs. You would swear the tractor had been submerged. According to the service mgr, a batch of Indian made castings made it into the supply chain without the drain holes being drilled out. He told me that 5x25 series weren't affected, so I breathed a sigh of relief.

 

[jlsmith]

I don't believe this should be done ... no matter how hard you try this type of customer will bad mouth you no matter what.

Tell him straight up and to his face, it is out of warranty. There is no extended Warranty. It will cost X amount to fix. When do you want us to start?

If he bulks ... charge him for the already done work and advise him to take it back home.

Yea blueriver your prob right, this will end up a no win situation for me but I do try to make it right for the customer. If it was clearly they customers fault with no doubt about it then i would do that, but since it is questionable on how it happened ill try to help him out. Atleast i will feel better and know i tried to do the right thing and sleep good at night.

 

[jake98]

Sounds like the proceedure ought to be, 'take the plug out and throw it away'. It's a clutch, even if it was submerged that shouldn't happen to it. That thing looks like it sat full of water.

 

[dourobob]

You sound like a great dealer and you want to be "fair" - I think that is the key to it all.
What is fair for the customer?
What is fair for you?
What is fair from MF.

Anything more than that is "good will".

Bob

 

[simenad]

could be a lot of short runs, start and stops create a lot of condensation and not much heat to dry it up properly.

 

[rjkobbeman]

I don't know... I have mixed feelings on this.

Don't know how the water would get in there, but it seems to me there would be other signs on the exterior of the tractor that imply it was driven through water.

Maybe he uses a power washer to clean it... and a lack of a drain plug just keeps any water (that manages to get in there) in there.

It is 2½ years old but only has 120 hours on it. It does a lot of sitting. Even if what the owner says is true (which I doubt) in regards to running it every day, then he uses it on average about 8 minutes per day. With that kind of use, any moisture that manages to get in their will not get dried out.

This seems like a lack of use issue. Can a power washer squeeze water in there?

 

[sixdogs]

could be a lot of short runs, start and stops create a lot of condensation and not much heat to dry it up properly.

Yes, but a clutch takes a number of months to freeze together so hard it takes a chilsel to separate. I like the idea of letting the comany rep handle it.
Having been in a number of these situations over the decades, we both know the nicer you are the worse it will turn out.

 

[George2615]

Nope its kept out side under a tree. When i stated to him that it looked like its been under water the first thing he said was "I never got it stuck in the pond, besides its 4 wheel drive haw can u get a 4 wheel drive stuck" :laughing: i said ok. Ive seen plenty 4x4's stuck.

Just the owners statement says it has been in the pond at some point. It may not have been stuck but sure was in deep enough water to get things rusty inside. Does the owner know its not waterproof?

 

[rjkobbeman]

Yes, but a clutch takes a number of months to freeze together so hard it takes a chilsel to separate. I like the idea of letting the comany rep handle it.
Having been in a number of these situations over the decades, we both know the nicer you are the worse it will turn out.

And I would say a tractor with only 120 hours in 2.5 years has sat for long periods.

Of course my FIL's tractor (an old Ford 800 series) sat for two years until we got around to fixing the ingition. Once we did that it fired right up with no issues.

Who the heck knows...

 

[John47]

Looks like a piece of the casting is broken at the bottom of the bell housing, in the first photo.

 

[KubotainNH]

Interesting thread, I'm curious to see how it pans out. I wish more folks had your customer service ethics.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Will just replacing all of the parts in there fix things? It looks like before it burned out it was running in water by the marks on the side of the housing.

Did water get into the rear end too or was that what he changed too?

 

[jlsmith]

I think he might have gotten it under water but he claims he never did. I can only go by what he says. Im waiting on MF to look and see what they think. He did change all fluids and filters a few weeks ago. We can replace the clutch and everything should be fine. It is actually just outside rust on the clutch. I could probably just clean it good and it would be fine accept for the bearing I would replace it. The disk still has plenty of life left it was just covered. In rust and it welded itself to the clutch. Hopefully we will have an answer monday. I think I will do away with his bell housing plug and put a carter key in its place just incase this was caused by moisture build up in it do to short periods of operations.

 

[KubotainNH]

He did change all fluids and filters a few weeks ago. We can replace the clutch and everything should be fine.

This is the part to me that screams that he's hiding something. Change the fluids right before it goes to the shop. A clutch doesn't get rusted stuck over night. He should probably cover either labor or parts.

 

[whodat526]

can somebody please explain to me how this would ever be a warranty matter because i dont believe it would be a defect and if out of waranty the owner should eat the cost. but just because they bought a tractor from u doesnt meen they are a customer not everybody that buys is a customer and if this guy expects u to fix this doesnt sound like hes a customer

 

[PoorMansCat]

I don't know PoorMan, A couple of cliches: If your walking down a path and hear hoof beats behind you, you probably think Horses, .......not Zebras! If it walks like a Duck, 'Quacks like a Duck', it's most likely a 'Duck'! Granted, thery're other reasons for that moisture/water, but you've gotta factor in the probablities.........~S

If it walks like a duck, im thinkin' TURDUCKAN!!!... If I hear hoof beats.. i'm thinkin' THIS IS GONNA HURT!!..

I work in the service industry. We play with much larger dollar amounts than tractors... If the engine is still within the warranty period then warranty is assumed when a customer calls in with an issue. There are those times when performing warranty work, that you get a feeling that maybe the customer is being less than truthful, but unless it is PROVEN, it is warranty. No assumptions are allowed.
If the customer gets a repair under warranty that he was less than honest about, he will still talk well of the dealer and will be back for parts/service. Even if he doesn't come back, atleast he won't bad-mouth the dealer or the product brand. BUT EVEN WORSE IS... IF the customer was telling the whole truth about the entire event, no matter how unlikely... and , as the dealer, did NOT choose to believe him and did NOT warranty the situation.... Do you really think he will be back for parts/service? How will he speak to others about the dealership? The product brand name?

 

[Don87]

can somebody please explain to me how this would ever be a warranty matter because i dont believe it would be a defect and if out of waranty the owner should eat the cost. but just because they bought a tractor from u doesnt meen they are a customer not everybody that buys is a customer and if this guy expects u to fix this doesnt sound like hes a customer

Well, if you read through everything in here............

In my opinion, this guy will never buy another tractor from this dealer as long as he lives, no matter what happens with the claim.

First, it's not a warranty matter............warranty has long since expired.

Second, the tractor was in water for an extended period(or at the very least, the clutch was submerged for an extended period due to the drain hole being plugged), and even if it is fixed by the factory, the owner will never be able to face the dealer again because of the lies he told.

And to back this up.............just look at what the customer said......."cover this under warranty(even though the warranty has expired), or I will badmouth you".


JMHO

 

[Willl]

Yea blueriver your prob right, this will end up a no win situation for me but I do try to make it right for the customer. If it was clearly they customers fault with no doubt about it then i would do that, but since it is questionable on how it happened ill try to help him out. Atleast i will feel better and know i tried to do the right thing and sleep good at night.

Kind of a side thought, why was the decision of 'who' was to pay not decided before a dime was dropped in the first place ?

 

[whodat526]

Well, if you read through everything in here............

In my opinion, this guy will never buy another tractor from this dealer as long as he lives, no matter what happens with the claim.

First, it's not a warranty matter............warranty has long since expired.

Second, the tractor was in water for an extended period(or at the very least, the clutch was submerged for an extended period due to the drain hole being plugged), and even if it is fixed by the factory, the owner will never be able to face the dealer again because of the lies he told.

And to back this up.............just look at what the customer said......."cover this under warranty(even though the warranty has expired), or I will badmouth you".


JMHO

i have read through it all and what i was saying is that if i was the dealer i wouldn't worry about this operator is no customer he is a thief in my opinion if he thinks the dealer should eat the cost and that is what he implied when he stated he took out the extended warranty when he knew he didn't this is a lose-lose for the dealer if it was at my shop i would figure out what i would cost to repair and let them know and if they didn't want it fixed charge them for what was already done and then shove it outside and it really seems like it would make a good insurance claim though if it was accidently in a pond

 

[PoorMansCat]

If it walks like a duck, im thinkin' TURDUCKAN!!!... If I hear hoof beats.. i'm thinkin' THIS IS GONNA HURT!!..

I work in the service industry. We play with much larger dollar amounts than tractors... If the engine is still within the warranty period then warranty is assumed when a customer calls in with an issue. There are those times when performing warranty work, that you get a feeling that maybe the customer is being less than truthful, but unless it is PROVEN, it is warranty. No assumptions are allowed.
If the customer gets a repair under warranty that he was less than honest about, he will still talk well of the dealer and will be back for parts/service. Even if he doesn't come back, atleast he won't bad-mouth the dealer or the product brand. BUT EVEN WORSE IS... IF the customer was telling the whole truth about the entire event, no matter how unlikely... and , as the dealer, did NOT choose to believe him and did NOT warranty the situation.... Do you really think he will be back for parts/service? How will he speak to others about the dealership? The product brand name?

Hold up... SOMEHOW, I totally missed the part about the tractor NOT being under factory warranty.. If its out of warranty, then it is jsut that, out of warranty. You can get 8760 hours of run time out of an engine in one year. If the customer opts to only run it 120 hours, thats their option. If the tractor breaks at hour 121 and is 3 days out of warranty, the customer either needs to fix it their self or get the checkbook.