Ok whats wrong with this pic

[SPYDERLK]

It looks like a small amount of water got in and stayed in, condensing on the metal when it was cold. As said, theres no water line. Also no evidence of slinging water. Does that tractor have an rpm based hour meter? Perhaps it was driven easy and the meter did not run as a clock.
larry

 

[bc realtor]

Man, I wouldn't give any of you guys scooby snacks for this one. The clue is two years with the tractor and 120hours. sounds like the tractor has been started every day and diven for a very short period of time. Before the tractor has the time to warm the clutch up completly it is shut down. Condensation forms and acumilates of a long period of time. Once there is water of any degree in there it acumilates even more from the condensation.
drill a hole out and hope for the best next time. I have seen this issue a few times on short run tugs in the lumber yard. and ocationally in a loader we had for picking up logs that came of the saw bunks by accident. Either way I know that it was a pain to fix.
Then again I could be wrong

 

[Willl]

Then again I could be wrong

My money says you aint.

 

[Redneck in training]

To freeze the clutch takes long time. If he would drive it every day it could be rusted, perhaps also sticking but it would disengage. There would be signs of problems before the failure and he should have taken care of it. Perhaps still in warranty. I think it is his fault not taking care of the issue when there were symptoms present. I would ask him how he wants to pay for the repair. Either get all new parts or just clean it up with new bearing. Or sell him the parts he needs and let him fix it by himself. I would still charge him for the labor already done.
I work in service for many years. There used to be a saying: "The customer is always right." It doesn't work as it invites abuse. The customer has certain expectation and we try to exceed those in example in quality of service and provided expertise but we also expect to get paid for the service. We send our rates to the customer and ask for a P.O. Unless P.O. is received we don't go. There might be some exceptions but few and far apart.

 

[Willl]

Perhaps still in warranty.

Huh ?

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

. Before the tractor has the time to warm the clutch up completly it is shut down.

What do you mean "warm the clutch up". Never heard of that . If your clutch is generating heat it is slipping. no scooby snack for you
Bill

 

[kjung17]

I'm with Willl and bc. 2 1/2 years under a tree. 120 hours. No sediment in clutch housing. Stamped metal portion of clutch not rusty enough to have been submerged. Classic case of neglect, in my book. Very unfortunate for the owner. Certainly not a warranty issue. I would not go for a special allowance from the manufacturer, either. This should be an expensive lesson for the owner. Lack of use and improper storage are more destructive than most people understand.

 

[sixdogs]

Over the years I have made a lot of this type of decesion--in a different industry--and often supported things I shouldn't have. Usually I gained a friend because the guy in question knew his goose was cooked and was just seeing what would happen. I was trying to be as fair as possible.
It took a while but I grew to listen to the details from different angles and one day decided if the situation were reversed, how would I act and how would I present my case? As well, if the customer were judging me, how do I think he would treat me? I grew to lean more towards the people that I expect would treat me right and less the other way. Life isn't fair and i don't like or accept the customer's arguement. It smells fishy.

I think the dealer here has handled this presentation admirably by thinking it through and really trying to be a responsible guy. Yet another good thing from Texas.
My guess is the company rep will likey let the guy win a little and lose a little and we move on. You can't please the world and I'll bet this customer will not be happy regardless. The outcome should prove interesting.

 

[Max2310]

I haven't read all the posts here but if I can say something is when I got my MF, brand new in 2008, the user manuals had mold on it an they were stored in a big zip lock type of bag in the pocket at the back of the seat.

I'm glad that I quickly noticed that otherwise I'm sure I would have had to live with it. Of course, I'm talking books over a clutch but the idea is the same. How did does books collected mold before in was at my house?

Yup, it's a delicate situation.

 

[jinman]

Smitty, I don't think it matters whether the tractor has been underwater or not. The tractor is out of warranty and the clutch is a mess. Whatever you and MF do for this guy is good will on your part. We have no way of seeing the number of low-hour split tractors that you and MF do, so we have no way to make comparisons or say if this is due to submersion or condensation.

I do know one thing, if I owned a MF of this or another model, I'd be drilling a drain hole in the bottom of my bell housing and putting in cotter key dongle, maybe even two holes. To me, that bell housing looks too tight. When the clutch and engine operate, the air inside is going to get warm. If the weather is cool outside, warm moist air will condense inside the bell housing and could easily drip down onto the clutch surface. Sure, this is extreme, but if the owner regularly uses his tractor for short runs, it could see lots of heat cycles.

I don't think it would break MF to provide some form of coverage, but probably not 100%. In a worst case scenario, I'm sure MF would not consider this normal for their tractors and would investigate if it was possible in the current configuration. There are questions needing to be answered here, but none of them are related to warranty. Perhaps a recall campaign to drill holess and provide better drainage would help ensure both dealers and customers do not have to be confronted with these issues.

Those pictures you showed would not please me on a 5-year old tractor, much less one of a much younger age. Nobody here wants to think that their tractor of any age could look like that. Without positive proof, you have to take the customer's word that the tractor has not been underwater. That's what you are doing and you are providing the kind of support I would like to have from my dealer. The fact that you posted the pictures shows you have some doubts and would like to hear every side of the problem. Good for you.:thumbsup:

 

[Mike Costello]

Interesting thread. I used to deal with this stuff all the time in the automotive business. It usually boils down to the customer not taking responsibility for his actions, so the blame game is played. The customer's initial responses speak volumes in this case, such as threatening to "Bad mouth" the dealer etc.

I would usually explain to the customer that I would do whatever was reasonable to solve their problem after a thorough inspection. I never made any accusations, but would work any warranty available to help cover costs. I advised them I would be getting in touch as soon as I had more information for them. This cooling down peroid is important because it eliminates hasty, often emotionally charged comments from happening. It also gives the customer time to think about what is happening, especially if a scam is being attempted.
If the repair gets covered under warranty completely--then all is well. If the customer is ultimately on the hook for the repair costs, I will then offer reduced costs as a "Goodwill" gesture. The choice is theirs--to fix or not to fix. Surprisingly, most will opt for the deal because they know down deep (if they're scammers) that they've been made, and if thy're legitimate they still get a deal.
At any rate, threats and whining never bothered me much, as I had too many good custmers who knew me well to worry about a few bad ones. The dealer is using the right approach with this guy. Mike.

 

[jake98]

It's just a clutch job, and if the guy had moved it a couple times in the last year it probably wouldn't have been a problem at all. I don't think he deserves some kind of break, reguardless of how the water got in there. And since he's dishonest enough to try to get free extended service he ought to get to pay for a new one at full rate. He's getting away easy.

 

[rjkobbeman]

It's just a clutch job, and if the guy had moved it a couple times in the last year it probably wouldn't have been a problem at all. I don't think he deserves some kind of break, reguardless of how the water got in there. And since he's dishonest enough to try to get free extended service he ought to get to pay for a new one at full rate. He's getting away easy.

I could not agree more. I have been trying to figure out how the moisture got in there and why the clutch failed. At the end of the day, it does not matter. The thing is out of warranty and it has probably sat for extended periods outside.

Not that sitting outside is bad... but you gotta run it now and then.

We have all had stuff break not long after the warranty is over... it is just how life is.

I have a bad feeling the OP's overly nice and caring attitude is what got him in trouble. The customer capitalized on that. If the dealer said "Nope, it is out of warranty" from the get go, the customer probably would not have pondered too much.

 

[jlsmith]

Yes sometimes I think I try to be too nice. I just like the customer to know he has someone in his corner in his time of need. The bell housing does have a drain plug to let the water out. When we picked the tractor up we thought we could free it up without splitting it. When we saw what ws wrong and called the customer and told him the cost is when he started yelling warranty and he was advised 6 months age his warranty was up and to bring the tractor n so we could go over it incase we saw a problem before it expired at which time he declined. So yes he knew it was out of warranty when we picked it up I just don't think he thought it would cost as much to fix.

 

[jake98]

Well I'm not against extending a little charity sometimes, but the truth of the matter is it gets made up somewhere else. That's why nice guys finish last..

 

[MikeD74T]

jl, Nearing 100 posts on the thread. How about you print it out, give it to the customer to read , & invite him to TBN ? MikeD74T

 

[jlsmith]

jl, Nearing 100 posts on the thread. How about you print it out, give it to the customer to read , & invite him to TBN ? MikeD74T

I do like that idea. :thumbsup:

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Smitty, I don't think it matters whether the tractor has been underwater or not. The tractor is out of warranty and the clutch is a mess. Whatever you and MF do for this guy is good will on your part. We have no way of seeing the number of low-hour split tractors that you and MF do, so we have no way to make comparisons or say if this is due to submersion or condensation.

I do know one thing, if I owned a MF of this or another model, I'd be drilling a drain hole in the bottom of my bell housing and putting in cotter key dongle, maybe even two holes. To me, that bell housing looks too tight. When the clutch and engine operate, the air inside is going to get warm. If the weather is cool outside, warm moist air will condense inside the bell housing and could easily drip down onto the clutch surface. Sure, this is extreme, but if the owner regularly uses his tractor for short runs, it could see lots of heat cycles.

I don't think it would break MF to provide some form of coverage, but probably not 100%. In a worst case scenario, I'm sure MF would not consider this normal for their tractors and would investigate if it was possible in the current configuration. There are questions needing to be answered here, but none of them are related to warranty. Perhaps a recall campaign to drill holess and provide better drainage would help ensure both dealers and customers do not have to be confronted with these issues.

Those pictures you showed would not please me on a 5-year old tractor, much less one of a much younger age. Nobody here wants to think that their tractor of any age could look like that. Without positive proof, you have to take the customer's word that the tractor has not been underwater. That's what you are doing and you are providing the kind of support I would like to have from my dealer. The fact that you posted the pictures shows you have some doubts and would like to hear every side of the problem. Good for you.:thumbsup:

I agree with your post.

I think MF designing a bell housing in a way as to hold water/oil is a design flaw.

We have two holes under our 1976 265 MF that will drip some oil so I know it will not hold water.

The fact the water was so deep that the clutch was picking up the water and throwing it indicates a MF design issue.

If MF will pick up the labor that should be fair not that the owner would agree. The dealer will wind up being a sucker if MF wants to buy the parts and the owner pay the labor.

I think we are interested in what MF states on Monday.

My question would be will the owner ever be happy with the tractor again?

 

[SPYDERLK]

I dont see any evidence of the clutch picking up and slinging water.
larry

 

[dourobob]

Yes sometimes I think I try to be too nice. I just like the customer to know he has someone in his corner in his time of need. . . . called the customer and told him the cost is when he started yelling warranty and he was advised 6 months age his warranty was up and to bring the tractor n so we could go over it in case we saw a problem before it expired at which time he declined.

I bet you have no trouble sleeping at night!

Sounds like your "customer" was trying the warranty thing on for size because he had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

As others have said, let him read this string of posts on TBN and (if possible) watch his face for his reaction as he goes through them. Might tell you everything you need to know.

Also interested in hearing what your MF rep has to say.

Bob