Off Brand

[civesnedfield]

Well excuse me. I am not going to get into a p*****g match with the one and only Farmwithjunk. The name should say it all.

First off, check your facts. I did
About Us : John Deere Equipment

My point is two fold:

1) So many times I have herd, I am not going to buy a product made in China, Japan, India ect. Well guess what If you own a US made Tractor there is a good chance part or all of it was not made here.

2) Everyone assumes that products not made in the US are inferior. Point is if products not made here, why is JD opening a factory in India and shipping their products to the US???????????

This is the last post for me on this topic. I can see that the resident expert on all thing Tractor or tractor related has joined the board, and quite franlky arguing with him is a waste of anyones time.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well excuse me. I am not going to get into a p*****g match with the one and only Farmwithjunk. The name should say it all.

First off, check your facts. I did
About Us : John*Deere Equipment

My point is two fold:

1) So many times I have herd, I am not going to buy a product made in China, Japan, India ect. Well guess what If you own a US made Tractor there is a good chance part or all of it was not made here.

2) Everyone assumes that products not made in the US are inferior. Point is if products not made here, why is JD opening a factory in India and shipping their products to the US???????????

This is the last post for me on this topic. I can see that the resident expert on all thing Tractor or tractor related has joined the board, and quite franlky arguing with him is a waste of anyones time.

You need to make it your last post on the subject until you do a little homework. Half truths aren't truths at all. We have another term for that where I'm from.

Deere does in fact have a plant in India. They do in fact build the 5X03 series tractors there. So what. Did I say ANYTHING derogetory about foriegn built tractors? (Answer- NO) Deere has a plant in Augusta Georgia. They build MOST of the 5000 series there. You like to pass around insults, but you also seem to like to pass around bogus information represented as "facts" Get it straight. Just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't make you a bad guy. Just WRONG in this case.

Argueing with me when you're using bad information IS a waste of your time by the way.

 

[Billfrommich]

Hello
I own a third world chinese made Benye which was marketed as a Rhino 344 in the USA. By most folks definitions it's an off-brand. It has a koyker loader and runs very well with over 1000 hrs. Since I read the following release by the maker of green tractors I'm wondering if maybe we will be seeing green rhino's in the future and maybe then I will have a legitimate tractor..

MOLINE, IL (June 8, 2007) — Deere & Company, the world's largest manufacturer of agricultural equipment, said today that it plans to expand small tractor manufacturing in China by acquiring the Ningbo Benye Tractor & Automobile Manufacture Co. Ltd. business, located in Ningbo in southern China.

Deere said it has signed a definitive agreement to purchase the Benye business and is seeking final review of the transaction by government approval authorities in China.

Through the acquisition, Deere will expand the product line offered to Chinese farmers and enhance its worldwide capacity to produce low horsepower tractors. Benye mainly builds tractors in the 20 to 50 horsepower range while Deere currently builds tractors in the 60 to 120 horsepower range at its current China joint venture tractor factory, located in Tianjin.

"Our objective is to distinctly serve those who work the land," said Robert W. Lane, chairman and chief executive officer of Deere & Company. "The acquisition of Benye will allow us to better serve customers in China with a more complete product line, as well as to provide tractors from China to other locations in the world. This action is an example that John Deere continues to seek opportunities for global growth."

Deere has provided products and services to the China agricultural market since 1976 and has manufactured equipment in China since 1997, when it entered a joint venture to build combines at a factory at Jiamusi. The Jiamusi operation is now wholly–owned and the company also manufactures tractors at a joint venture, John Deere Tiantuo Co., Ltd.

Benye, which was started in 1955, is the largest tractor manufacturer in southern China. It has a new manufacturing facility that covers 200,000 square meters, which includes research and development, manufacturing, and marketing. While 95 percent of the company's current revenues come from sales within China, the company has exported tractors to 70 countries worldwide.

"We do have an ambition to grow both our domestic and export market in China," said David Everitt, president of Deere's Agricultural Division in North America, Australia, Asia, and for Global Tractor and Implement Sourcing. "Our decision to acquire Benye provides us an excellent opportunity to align with a high quality manufacturer of tractors in a horsepower range important to our customers

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Hello
I own a third world chinese made Benye which was marketed as a Rhino 344 in the USA. By most folks definitions it's an off-brand. It has a koyker loader and runs very well with over 1000 hrs. Since I read the following release by the maker of green tractors I'm wondering if maybe we will be seeing green rhino's in the future and maybe then I will have a legitimate tractor..

MOLINE, IL (June 8, 2007) — Deere & Company, the world's largest manufacturer of agricultural equipment, said today that it plans to expand small tractor manufacturing in China by acquiring the Ningbo Benye Tractor & Automobile Manufacture Co. Ltd. business, located in Ningbo in southern China.

Deere said it has signed a definitive agreement to purchase the Benye business and is seeking final review of the transaction by government approval authorities in China.

Through the acquisition, Deere will expand the product line offered to Chinese farmers and enhance its worldwide capacity to produce low horsepower tractors. Benye mainly builds tractors in the 20 to 50 horsepower range while Deere currently builds tractors in the 60 to 120 horsepower range at its current China joint venture tractor factory, located in Tianjin.

"Our objective is to distinctly serve those who work the land," said Robert W. Lane, chairman and chief executive officer of Deere & Company. "The acquisition of Benye will allow us to better serve customers in China with a more complete product line, as well as to provide tractors from China to other locations in the world. This action is an example that John Deere continues to seek opportunities for global growth."

Deere has provided products and services to the China agricultural market since 1976 and has manufactured equipment in China since 1997, when it entered a joint venture to build combines at a factory at Jiamusi. The Jiamusi operation is now wholly–owned and the company also manufactures tractors at a joint venture, John Deere Tiantuo Co., Ltd.

Benye, which was started in 1955, is the largest tractor manufacturer in southern China. It has a new manufacturing facility that covers 200,000 square meters, which includes research and development, manufacturing, and marketing. While 95 percent of the company's current revenues come from sales within China, the company has exported tractors to 70 countries worldwide.

"We do have an ambition to grow both our domestic and export market in China," said David Everitt, president of Deere's Agricultural Division in North America, Australia, Asia, and for Global Tractor and Implement Sourcing. "Our decision to acquire Benye provides us an excellent opportunity to align with a high quality manufacturer of tractors in a horsepower range important to our customers

China and India have trade restrictions that make it virtually impossible for "foriegn" manufacturers to import in to their markets. To compete, they have to build products there. Deere has been front and center in "globalization" for more than 60 years. So is just about every major manufacturer of farm equipment. In time, they'll ALL be in China, India, and all over the globe. No one with an ounce of inteligence will try to claim products are AUTOMATICALLY inferior because of their point of origin. That is to be judged by actual performance on the job. Deere got into the tractor business by buying in. Nothing new, nothing shocking.

 

[VA Rebel]

When they start putting Mahindra in country songs, then we can stop considering them an "off brand".

 

[Dougster]

When they start putting Mahindra in country songs, then we can stop considering them an "off brand".

In the great "off-brand" tractor debate of 2007... the benchmark criteria has obviously just gotten higher!

Dougster

 

[Travis_R]

Believe it or not, when I sing-a-long with a good ole' country tune, I DO substitute the "Deere" for "Mahindra"!! Of course, it isn' made it to the record stores, yet. Now, I guess i'll have to substitute the "Mahindra" for "Massey Ferguson", since I am buying one.

Travis R

 

[Billfrommich]

Now come on..... It just doesn't sound right..
She thinks my Mahindra's sexy?
After all these years I have finally found out that I do have a brand with an advantage.
I will have to ask my wife if she thinks my rhino's sexy!
Have a great day.....it's gonna be close to 100 degrees here so I've got to get outside and get my work done early today.

 

[redlevel]

Two weeks ago the fuel shut-off valve under the gas tank on my 1956 Ford 640 went bad. I wondered if I would ever find a replacement, one that actually fit (was made for) that particular application, or if I would have to cobble together something that would work.

I called a New Holland dealer about 30 miles from me (there were three within less than fifty miles of my little town I could have called). I told him what I needed. "Sure," he said. "We keep them in stock, and most anything else you need for your tractor. There are still forty or fifty of those tractors being used everyday in this area;, and we have to keep parts for them."

The only brands I am aware of in the USA that the same can be said for are JD, NH, Ford, MF, Case, International, Allis, and probably Kubota, since they have such an extensive dealer network. I consider all others as off-brands. I know for a fact parts are available (readily) for the older Ford, NH, and MF tractors, both from the factory and various aftermarket suppliers. I am just assuming, given the number of the other brands twenty-five-plus years old I see running, that the same is true of them.

I just bought an off-brand tractor last August. I bought a Farmtrac 535. I bought it because it is a very familar platform, and appeared to be just as tough and reliable as the old Fords it is based on. If I had been an International user, and if there had been a good Mahindra dealer close around, I might have considered that particular "off-brand".

I actually agonized over that tractor purchase for a long time. Like FWJ, I am a MF guy, having owned and operated probably a dozen MF's over the last 30 years. Two things made me decide on the Farmtrac. (1) It came from a dealer that I have done business with in the past, who actually used to be a Ford/NH dealer. (2) I have watched the Farmtrac display at the Sunbelt Ag Expo in Moultrie, GA grow from one or two tractors with a couple of local dealers representing the brand to a large, well-laid-out display with tractors representing the complete line, and several factory reps in attendance. In other words, it doesn't look like a fly-by-night operation any more.

In my mind, any brand that doesn't yet have a proven, reliable parts/dealer network over the long haul (fifty years not really, but 10-15 at least ) is an off brand. I still consider Mahindra and Farmtrac, along with some others, in that catagory.

In fifty years, I hope parts will be available for my off-brand tractor like they are for my old Ford. I won't be around to appreciate it, but somebody will.

 

[jpm]

remember it wasn't to long ago that a kobota was a way off brand also

 

[redlevel]

remember it wasn't to long ago that a kobota was a way off brand also

You're right. They developed a network of reputable, competent dealers who supported what was an excellent product. Now they are a major brand in the US, as they already were in other parts of the world.

I remember when the first guy showed up at the barber shop in a Datsun pickup in my town forty years ago. He had to go somewhere else to get his hair cut we were all laughing so hard. We knew those little pickups would never catch on. Same goes for the first Honda automobile I ever saw. They were a novelty. Given time, the off-brand tractors may achieve the same status the Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans (Datsun) have.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

These old Fords are easy to get parts for. I just had to replace the fuel line on my 640 and clean the carb while I was at it. Go to the dealer and get the fuel line and carb rebuild kit (incase I needed it when I tore the carb open) and go back to the barn. CNH keeps a good supply of parts but it is the individual dealers who have to stock them so I am sure some of the new NH dealerships probably don't stock a lot of old Ford parts unless there was an old Ford dealership in the area before.

The dealer network is what makes or breaks a company in the tractor world.

 

[Tim_in_IA]

I see threads like these come up from time to time, and notice how upset people get with each other over them. It's just plain silly to me. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mahindra, John Deere, Kubota. They are all great machines. Why do we need to bicker over them? Mahindra has nothing to prove. They are a world class company and that will only spread further throughout the USA. I own John Deeres, Farmalls, a Mahindra, and many other implements from other Ag companies. I love them all. There is plenty of room for everybody guys. Just relax a bit.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I see threads like these come up from time to time, and notice how upset people get with each other over them. It's just plain silly to me. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Mahindra, John Deere, Kubota. They are all great machines. Why do we need to bicker over them? Mahindra has nothing to prove. They are a world class company and that will only spread further throughout the USA. I own John Deeres, Farmalls, a Mahindra, and many other implements from other Ag companies. I love them all. There is plenty of room for everybody guys. Just relax a bit.

Tim, I'm with you. I grew up with Fords and JDs and Farmalls (I'm 57 so you do the figurin')....I now own 3 Farmalls and a BIG RED MAHINDRA. Folks can make statements about tractors they own or are COMPLETELY familiar with SEMI-COLON: but pls remain silent on brands they are totally uninformed about.....Oh, yeah, you know who you are....BobG in VA

 

[Robert_in_NY]

but pls remain silent on brands they are totally uninformed about.....Oh, yeah, you know who you are....BobG in VA

Who are they? Most of they guys posting on this thread know what they are talking about and if they don't they are learning as the thread progresses. Now if you are talking about the OP who so far appears to be the only one in this thread to make a false statement about the entire JD 5000 line being built overseas then I understand your point. Otherwise I don't know what your trying to say.

 

[civesnedfield]

Gentlemen I do apoligize for making false statement previously. This does need a bit of explaining though. If you look at the original link I posted
Deere & Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You will notice that under the heading of Other Important Factories:
it is listed 5000 Series tractor manufacturers. No mention of paticular model numbers just the 5000 series.
Upon further investigation I found this:
About Us : John Deere Equipment
Here I found that "The factory currently produces modern tractors of 35, 40, 42, 47, 50, 55 and 70 Hp capacities for domestic markets. Tractors manufactured in Sanaswadi are also exported to the USA, Mexico, Turkey, North and South Africa, and South East Asia. "
I now realize that that the HP's listed do not encompass the entire 5000 line. Still in my defence JD does not even tell us exactly what Models are exported to the US. But not being totally informed does not absolve me of all my sins.

Had I been informed that a website was available to see what models are built where, instead of being accused of publishing half truths, I would have been educated insteaded of offended.

We are all here for one (maybe more that one) reason, to learn from each others experience.

That being said, I still believe every one needs to be aware that you may think that your favorite brand is made here in the good ole USA but chances are you may be sitting on quite a bite of foriegn made parts.

I leave you with this little example someone sent me recently. It was entitled Job search:



Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet(MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) filled it with GAS from (Saud i Arabia) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia)(with tech support in INDIA), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE! IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE! France!!) and turned on his TV(MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.. AMERICA.....

 

[Robert_in_NY]

My reply wasn't meant as an attack towards you. It was a question towards BobG and his mention about people talking about brands they know nothing about. I was just trying to figure out who he was talking about.

Everyone makes mistakes as I thought some of the original 5000 series tractors were originally made in Germany or somewhere in Europe. I can not find the information on them to verify it though

 

[civesnedfield]

My reply wasn't meant as an attack towards you. It was a question towards BobG and his mention about people talking about brands they know nothing about. I was just trying to figure out who he was talking about.

Everyone makes mistakes as I thought some of the original 5000 series tractors were originally made in Germany or somewhere in Europe. I can not find the information on them to verify it though

Did not take it that way at all. I just felt that I needed to say what I had to say.

 

[VistanTN]

I think the biggest part of the problem is that anyone over ... you pick an age ... still has a hard time grasping the level of globalization that has occurred in the last 15 years ... two examples and I'll be quiet:

My Mahindra: Indian tractor, right? Well, yes the frame, engine, tranny and sheet netal were manufactured in India. The front axle is Italian. The loader, hydraulics (mostly), seat, canopy, tires, and rims are US and the whole thing was assembled in either Tomball, TX or Dalton, GA.

My first Dodge Caravan (I was proud to "buy American" had a Mitsubishi engine and transaxle and was assembled in Canada.

The "home" of the brand label is no longer a statement of the exclusive country of origin.

 

[Keith_B]

The word manufactured is often used synonymously with assembled today. Deere doesn't really manufacture tractors in Augusta, but assembles the tractors there. Building 21st century John Deere tractors - 3/1/2001 - Modern Materials Handling

This is pretty common in today's world. Individual components are outsourced, and everything is brough together in a central location for assembly.

There aren't a lot of companies left out there that take in the raw materials and turn out a finished product in a single location. Along with the globalization came a lot of specialization, and there are many plants that contribute to a completed item, be it car, tractor, computer, etc.

I think it is kind of ironic that the brands that many people consider to be off brands have often manufactured tractors for companies that people consider not to be off brands.