Off Brand

[Robert_in_NY]

Tim, I don't know where the whole off brand thing even started but this "off Brand" thread was started by a Mahindra owner. Tractors that I consider "off brands" are brands like Tafe and all of the grey market tractors that are so scarce that it is hard to find any dealer let alone model specific parts.

Brands like Mahindra, Long Agritrac, Kioti, TYM (don't they make some of the Mahindra's or vice versa or what is their connection?) and a few of the other smaller dealer networks do not count as off brands.

In all honesty, the whole off brand tag is kind of stupid. I don't care what brand of tractor you have, if you don't have a dealer near by then what good is it. Just talk to some of these guys who have grey market tractors. Even with the internet they have a lot of trouble trying to find parts regardless of the brand.

I really don't know why this thread was even started. Were there a lot of people calling Mahindra an off brand or something? If so where were they doing it? A lot of people are loyal to a brand for some reason but some of these Mahindra guys are making the green underwear Deere guys look good

 

[Dougster]

A lot of people are loyal to a brand for some reason but some of these Mahindra guys are making the green underwear Deere guys look good

Only because that lime green underwear doesn't fade in the wash like my Mahindra Reds!

Dougster

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Obviously, some folks... mainly older, hardcore aficionados of the traditional brands and traditional ways... feel personally threatened by brands like Mahindra that are huge in the world market but just coming into their own in the US market in recent years. Let's be honest: The newer brands are driving dealers of the traditional brands out of business or forcing them to switch over to the new brands. It's happening all around me. All that owners of the traditional brands can do is moan about it and call the new equipment "off-brand" (Definition: "Of or being a product sold inexpensively under a relatively unfamiliar brand name and often considered inferior to better known brands.") Of course it is intended as an insult... and yes, that's what certain people are here for.

Dougster

Yes, Mahindra is a huge company. No one has said they weren't. But CNH is the largest ag company in the world and I think they are still the largest construction company also. Massey Ferguson was and may still be the top "brand" of tractor in the world. I think Deere is up there also. No one is saying Mahindra is a new company or a little start up. But they are fairly new in tractor standards to the US and as a lot of other companies will tell you, the US is one of the hardest markets to crack. Look how long it took Kubota to be readily accepted in the US.

However, it appears some of the Mahindra owners on this board have to keep beating their drums over what they think is a lack of respect for some reason. That or they just want to convince themselves they made the right choice, again for some reason that I don't know why. I do not recall seeing anyone bashing Mahindra but then again I am not suppose to be reading any of these Mahindra threads

 

[Dougster]

I do not recall seeing anyone bashing Mahindra but then again I am not suppose to be reading any of these Mahindra threads

You just weren't paying attention Robert. The most recent round of Mahindra bashing started in this (now closed) thread...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/104903-hard-decision.html?highlight=off-brand+mahindra

... and then moved over here.

Robert - I can only speak for myself, but as far as I am concerned you are always welcome here... lime green shorts... baby blues... or whatever... okay?

Dougster

 

[shvl73]

Not that remotely care what color anyones tractor is but, I would think any decline in sales of compacts might be related to the slow real estate and new construction markets in the northeast. Money seems to be a bit harder to pry out of their wallets right now.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I was watching that thread but not too close but from what I remember you only had Lucky really trying to cause trouble. The rest of it was people discussing or trying to persuade the others that their tractor or brand was the better choice.

When someone post a question like the Hard decision thread it is actually a good thing with the thread goes like that. You get people talking about good and bad points of the tractor. It is much better then going to a John Deere board and asking about a John Deere tractor and having 100 greenies telling you it is the greatest tractor ever made by the greatest company ever

My thread about the best UTV went a similar route but that was a good thing as it let me see how people really looked at their machines. You can always tell the people who are brand loyal and try to push thier pick on you and you can easily tell the people who are just trying to help the original poster. You always get some garbage post which is why you ignore them or report them if they are brand bashing or abusive. Then the mods take care of it.

And the reason that thread was closed was because of FWJ. He took over Junkmans role as the official thread closer of TBN

 

[rtimgray]

Tim, I don't know where the whole off brand thing even started but this "off Brand" thread was started by a Mahindra owner. Tractors that I consider "off brands" are brands like Tafe and all of the grey market tractors that are so scarce that it is hard to find any dealer let alone model specific parts.

Brands like Mahindra, Long Agritrac, Kioti, TYM (don't they make some of the Mahindra's or vice versa or what is their connection?) and a few of the other smaller dealer networks do not count as off brands.

In all honesty, the whole off brand tag is kind of stupid. I don't care what brand of tractor you have, if you don't have a dealer near by then what good is it. Just talk to some of these guys who have grey market tractors. Even with the internet they have a lot of trouble trying to find parts regardless of the brand.

I really don't know why this thread was even started. Were there a lot of people calling Mahindra an off brand or something? If so where were they doing it? A lot of people are loyal to a brand for some reason but some of these Mahindra guys are making the green underwear Deere guys look good

Well danggit Robert - there you go....you're callin' my Yanmar F16D an off-brand tractor - you big meanie.

There probably are some orphan grey market tractors - and my F16 my be among them, and probably is for some parts. I feel I've probably already won my gamble, because we paid $4000 for the tractor and tiller in February of 1999. It had 492 hours on the meter. We just cleared about 1200 hours (which is not a lot of hours, I know - but this is primarily the yard mowing, fenceline bushhogging and post hole digging tractor). The only thing I've ever done is regular maintenance and install a battery. If I do end up needing parts, I imagine I can find them through my grey market sources or junk tractors - but first, I've got to need the parts!

There - I feel better - I just had to interject my experience with that particular brand.

Now, if we want to talk about a different experience, let me tell you about my Belarus 420AN.....

I think it was somebody with a Mahindra that started this Off-brand post and maybe it was just to bait folks into an argument (looked like it worked) or maybe just to post their point of view (nothing wrong with that). Just with my tractor history, obviously, I can't cast stones at others choices for what machines they feel are best for their applications.

 

[Dougster]

Not that remotely care what color anyones tractor is but, I would think any decline in sales of compacts might be related to the slow real estate and new construction markets in the northeast. Money seems to be a bit harder to pry out of their wallets right now.

Understood... but I was talking about the long-term trend, not variations in month-to-month sales or seasonal sales or anything like that. I was mainly focusing on overall market share in the New England market... and if JD's and M-F's market shares for utility and compact utility tractors haven't decreased markedly over the last 5 or 10 years, I will eat my Mahindra Red hat!

Dougster

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Well danggit Robert - there you go....you're callin' my Yanmar F16D an off-brand tractor - you big meanie.

Sorry about that

 

[VA Rebel]

Understood... but I was talking about the long-term trend, not variations in month-to-month sales or seasonal sales or anything like that. I was mainly focusing on overall market share in the New England market... and if JD's and M-F's market shares for utility and compact utility tractors haven't decreased markedly over the last 5 or 10 years, I will eat my Mahindra Red hat!

Dougster

Mahindra hat? Dont you mean Mahindra turban?

 

[Dougster]

Mahindra hat? Dont you mean Mahindra turban?

Oh man!!! Tough crowd today!!!

Dougster

 

[Keith_B]

Until we have the technology to effect warranty repairs via the internet, a dealer network is quite important. It wasn't all that many days since we were locked into a discussion on how vital a new "under warranty" tractor is to some people. Now it's NOT important?

The issue was parts availability in the future, which entails an item not being under warranty.

 

[Keith_B]

You asked! Here's a few reasons why.

A.) Where have you seen a post of mine referring to ANY brand as "off brand"? Don't I always refer to them as Mahindra? Show me otherwise, and I go away. The person who started this thread, entitled OFF BRAND, claims to be a Mahindra owner and supporter. Sort of a double standard there, isn't it?

B.) I came here AFTER several Mahindra owners/advocates came to another forum spouting off about how their favorite brand is THE CHOICE regardless of circumstances, when someone was looking at another brand that was obviously a better choice for HIS circumstances. I merely gave MY reasons why Mahindra WASN'T the prudent choice in that case, as well as why I haven't considered them in my case. The debate spilled over to here. The Mahindra forum isn't a private club, nor do I need to learn a secret handshake to post here.

C.) A certain Mahindra advocate was posting false and misleading information about another brand. Is it your contention that is permissable? Mahindra owners can slam other brands at will, even with out and out lies? But you're exemt from having your feet held to the fire over such as a divine right of Mahindra ownership?

Your problem is that you have no concept of reality and when you are faced with information contradicting your stance you resort to twisting others words and tossing out insults. That behavior is the level of maturity I would expect out of a fourth grader, not an adult.

On that other thread you failed miserably in addressing concerns about your advising someone to purchase what amounts to the Edsel of the MF line, the 231. That tractor was plagued with hydraulic problems, and isn't a tractor I would recommend anyone buy.

I saw no outright lies on that thread, only opinions and facts that you didn't want to read. You gave no information to backup any disagreement with their statements, instead you resorted to your usual insults and juvenile behaviors.

 

[Keith_B]

So you believe that because of the internet you don't really need dealers anymore? I mean if your tranny goes you can just call up another dealer and have it shipped to you and you can replace it in your back yard with just a screwdriver What good are dealers anyway Can't every tractor owner figure out what is wrong with his tractor when it dies in the field (oh wait, Mahindra has the 24/7 network, now why won't my serial number work )

I never said all dealers have every part made. However, the OP recently said that it doesn't matter for the average user if it takes 1-2 weeks to get parts. I am sure there are a lot of average users that would disagree regardless of what brand they have.

That is not what I said, that is a very poor misrepresentation of what was written.

You stated: So if you want to clear the snow with your compact and it breaks down you are fine with not being able to get the part to fix your tractor for a few weeks?

Your obvious assertion is clearly that it would take weeks to get a Mahindra part, and that the "name brand" tractors have immediate parts availability. I proved you wrong in that assertion, by giving you examples of three name brands where parts availability was a problem. It took about 60 seconds and a quick search to come up with numerous examples of parts availability problems with these name brand tractors.

Obviously, the parts availability arguement isn't valid, as I proved in my post.

My point is that parts availability can be a problem with any brand, and that the dealer network size is not going to make parts availability the issue it once may have. Today a lot of parts can be ordered today, and here tomorrow via the use of online ordering and overnight delivery. When my dealer delivered my tractor he forget to put the toplink in the truck. The store had already closed for the day, so he said that he would overnight it the following day unless I needed it immediately, if I needed it they would bring it to me. Since I had another toplink already I told him just to ship it to me. The next morning he overnighted the toplink and it was at my house as scheduled.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Keith, civesnedfield is the one who made mention that it didn't make a difference to most owners if it took two weeks to get a part. It was his post (#47) I originally replied to. I never said it took weeks to get Mahindra parts, he did.

This is what he posted in 47

Not sure I should go here but what the heck. I want to see this go to 10 pages or more.

Lets talk dealer support. Unless you are a farmer or someone like Dougster who's livelyhood depends on the tractor running every minute it has too, not being able to walk into a dealership and get parts right now, is nothing more than a hassel. Personally if I have to wait a week or two to get parts it is not going to kill me, yea I am not going to be happy but I am a big boy and I will get over it.
I speak form experience here. I have owned 1 19xx Ford 3000 and a 1963 JD 1010RU. The Ford was ok. Never needed parts. Bought it, did nothing to it, and sold it a year and a half later for $900.00 more than I paid for it. What a great tractor that was. I figure if I kept it another year I could have milked another $500.00 out of it.
The 1010 was a different story though. First thing I did was put new rubber all the way around. After rubber came front end parts. Here's where the dealer support came in. Four tied rod ends, JD dealer price -- something like $200.00,(just using that figure not sure how accurate), thru the internet $100.00. Yea had to wait a week or two for them to arrive but worth the wait. An extra $100 or so is not my idea of good dealer support. For those who are thinking well you did not get original JD parts like your dealer would havegotten you, think again. The parts came from the same supplier that JD gets them from.
Next ddealer support item. Power steering cylinder develops a crack. Call up dealer. Sorry JD no longer makes or stocks that part, ie. you are on your own. So after three weeks sending e-mails and searching, I not the dealer find one. Takes an additional two weeks to get the part to the house.
I am not complaining here, just trying to make a point.
Dealer support all depends on the individual and his or her needs. If the tractor HAS to run when needed by all means Dealer support should be number one on the buying a new tractor checklist. If this is not the case dealer support can be kinda secondary. With today's technology, the internet, you can find and purchase just about anything you need. Lets say Mahindra, Zetor, Sato or any other company leaves your area, you can find and get parts. Lets face it you will also be able to find a mechanic to work on the thing if you do not orwill not turn a wrench. Me, when a man tells me that it is going to cost $250.00 to do a 50 hour service, the wrenches are alreday on the bench waithin for the proofmeter to turn 50.

Long story short, this is like all other recommendations for buying a tractor. Sit in it, try a bunch, buy the tractor that best fits your needs and the one that YOU like. Not the one that everyone elese says is the best. They are not sitting on it year in and year out, or making the payments. This is your decision and you should make the choice.

You must have jumped in on our discussion without reading the reason we even went on that tangent. You didn't prove anything to me that I didn't already know. All you proved is that you didn't know why I posted what I posted.

 

[civesnedfield]

Robert first things first.This Thread went 10 pages.
Second if you reread my post #47 can you point out where I said it took two weeks to get Mahindra parts. Cause I don't see it. I was refering to my previous tractor a JD1010. I do not see any where that I had even tried to get parts for my Mahindra. Oh by the way I ordered some parts at my dealer on Monday they were there on Wenesday.
I personally do not use my tractor on a daily basis nor do I use to to provide income this is why if I have to I am willing to wait for parts. By saying this iI am by no means trying to down play the importance of dealer support. Besides that when you own a 43 year old tractor you spend 3/4 of your time trying to find parts the other 1/4 waiting for them to get there.

 

[Keith_B]

Keith, civesnedfield is the one who made mention that it didn't make a difference to most owners if it took two weeks to get a part. It was his post (#47) I originally replied to. I never said it took weeks to get Mahindra parts, he did.

This is what he posted in 47


You must have jumped in on our discussion without reading the reason we even went on that tangent. You didn't prove anything to me that I didn't already know. All you proved is that you didn't know why I posted what I posted.

That is not what he was saying at all, and a misrepresentation of the statements you have made in your posts. You were the one who said you would have to wait weeks for parts for an off brand tractor. His statements were relative to having to wait for parts for a JD 1010.

It's kind of strange that the subject of people having to wait weeks for name brand parts is ignored with attempts to push the thread into a different direction. This avoidance is very noticable.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

A comical bunch, these Mahindra boys. Not real bright, but comical none the less. The 3 Amigos have spoken. John Deere Inc is doomed to failure, We don't need parts, dealers' OR a place to take warranty issues if you buy a Mahindra. And I'M wrong? You boys need to read WHAT YOU'VE POSTED. It is absolutely hilarious (disjointed from reality, but hilarious none the less)

 

[DavesTractor]

I suggest we close the thread.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I suggest we close the thread.

I suggest we BURN this thread.