New shop build, Doneish but continuing shenanigans

[ovrszd]

I understand.

Maybe ask about elevated rebar versus mesh.

If I had to thin my pour I'd feel a lot better with elevated rebar.

This is just my opinion. On a large flat pour, you can't elevate mesh. It will end up at the bottom of your pour. They'll tell you they will pull it up into the concrete. They can't. They are standing on it.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Also think about making the floor thicker where you might want to install a hoist sometime in the future. As I get older working under a vehicle is less and less appealing. A hoist would help.

 

[Peter 315]

Have the concrete company add Fiber Mesh to the mix ........

 

[rangerfredbob]

I think fiber is in the quote, I'll check.

They make little plastic "chairs" for the mesh, they wanted $900 to add in rebar at 2' spacing, but since I'm doing the PEX in there and I don't wanna pay for labor of that it's making me think... I think I need to call the guy on Monday and talk about options, he just came over with the wife when I was at work then made a quote with other details I emailed him...

2 post lift is already purchased, I'm getting too old to be under stuff, early signs but while in there might as well make the future better...

I'm leaning toward 6"

 

[ovrszd]

Methodically lay out your floor arrangement in regards to the hoist. You only get one chance. Using two pieces of Sonotube is the best way. If you can get 12" of concrete in the tubes you'll be fine setting a hoist on it. First thing you do is set the tubes. Then add gravel, PEX and steel. When pouring the tube gets poured full too of course. It being there keeps you from accidentally laying steel or PEX where you are going to drill.

Don't shortcut this process. Think it thru. I advise going to the local auto dealership with a tape measure and check out their hoist setups. Distance from a side wall and/or from the overhead door is critical.

Company my Son works for misjudged the placement of a four post hoist. Had to move it forward a foot. Drilled thru one loop of PEX......

Not to harp on this but just think about it logically. Chairs under mesh will not elevate it. They'll tromp on the chairs and have most of them tipped over or smashed into the grade by the time they are done pouring. Again, you can't step without stepping on the mesh.

Looking forward to seeing your progress with the floor. Make sure to post up some pics as you go. Thanks for the updates!!!

 

[rangerfredbob]

Thinking it over again, I'm gonna talk to the guy, might take him up on the quote for rebar if he'll give me a week after rebar so I can get the PEX in... I attached a picture of my first go at the PEX layout in LoopCAD, two openings on the bottom are rollup doors, open box is 4'x13' for the lift about 12' from the door, box in top right is office/bathroom/loft space. I'm not used to the software yet so getting dimensions is difficult, I don't know if the big doors or box are in the right spot or size...

 

[rangerfredbob]

I'm not sure I get the sonotube bit, what's that for? I've given up on the gantry idea, if I go with a 2' grid of rebar suspended on the brick things it should be good to go and have the PEX zip tied to that with 12" spacing or more. Looking online a 9000lb lift should be perfectly fine on a 4" slab so flat 6" should be just fine without anything fancy.

As far as spacing for the lift, my longest vehicle is I think 22' long (crew cab long bed '97 F350) so 14' from the door should be fine for the center of the posts.

 

[grsthegreat]

They install those lifts in all sorts of older buildings where no provisions were made for thicker steel. Most lift platforms have large bases to spread out weight. I have powered up lots of them placed in 30 year old garages and shops. Now having pex heating tubes present....that could be an issue. Need to plan around lift. I have seen so many of those tubes ruptured over the years. Also, better plan on investing in a good infrared camera device. There great for finding the tubes as long as unit is running and producing heat.

 

[not2old]

My concrete guy warned me that the plastic chairs would just get pushed into the styrofoam. I made a form to pour concrete and then cut to length. 1 1/2" x 3" across the bottom and tapered 2 1/2" high, with a recess to hold the bar in place. The little chairs I made did a good job of keeping the rebar at the right height. 1250 square feet inside and I made over 400 of them. The concrete crew had never seen anything like it.

 

[grsthegreat]

My concrete guy warned me that the plastic chairs would just get pushed into the styrofoam. I made a form to pour concrete and then cut to length. 1 1/2" x 3" across the bottom and tapered 2 1/2" high, with a recess to hold the bar in place. The little chairs I made did a good job of keeping the rebar at the right height. 1250 square feet inside and I made over 400 of them. The concrete crew had never seen anything like it.

need picture

 

[ovrszd]

I'm not sure I get the sonotube bit, what's that for? I've given up on the gantry idea, if I go with a 2' grid of rebar suspended on the brick things it should be good to go and have the PEX zip tied to that with 12" spacing or more. Looking online a 9000lb lift should be perfectly fine on a 4" slab so flat 6" should be just fine without anything fancy.

As far as spacing for the lift, my longest vehicle is I think 22' long (crew cab long bed '97 F350) so 14' from the door should be fine for the center of the posts.

Rather than having the 4x13 box for the lift, the sonotubes would create two 24" or whatever size you chose circles where there would be no steel or PEX. And if you thought necessary, no gravel in the tube would put your concrete thickness greater.

Again, I suggest you visit a shop using two post lifts and see how far from the door their posts are. I only have a four post lift so can't help you there. I'll text my boys and ask about theirs. They use two post lifts.

Yeah, 14' might work. My Son has a crew long bed SD. I'll get a measurement from his shop for you.

In regards to PEX. Everyone around here staples the PEX to the insulation board. Then suspends the steel above it using chairs. PEX is laid 12" spaced. One foot of PEX for each square foot of floor space. Loops usually 200' long. As equal as you possibly can. The length can be varied to fit the length of your rolls without waste.

In regards to Drilling holes for the lift post fasteners. The "experts" prefer to use the "wedge" type bolts. They also drill their holes clear thru the concrete if possible. Reason being if one fails and won't bind itself to the concrete they can just drive it down thru the concrete into the dirt with a second bolt.

 

[ovrszd]

They install those lifts in all sorts of older buildings where no provisions were made for thicker steel. Most lift platforms have large bases to spread out weight. I have powered up lots of them placed in 30 year old garages and shops. Now having pex heating tubes present....that could be an issue. Need to plan around lift. I have seen so many of those tubes ruptured over the years. Also, better plan on investing in a good infrared camera device. There great for finding the tubes as long as unit is running and producing heat.

It's not the weight on the lift pad that's the issue. It's having solid enough concrete to withstand the prying effect.

I've personally never heard of a PEX tube rupture buried in concrete. I think the concrete would have to crack and move apart to do that.

 

[ovrszd]

My concrete guy warned me that the plastic chairs would just get pushed into the styrofoam. I made a form to pour concrete and then cut to length. 1 1/2" x 3" across the bottom and tapered 2 1/2" high, with a recess to hold the bar in place. The little chairs I made did a good job of keeping the rebar at the right height. 1250 square feet inside and I made over 400 of them. The concrete crew had never seen anything like it.

I think if the pour crew repeatedly stepped directly on the chairs they might collapse some of them. I don't think they would get pushed into the pink board unless you were using cheap styrofoam that looks like a coffee cup. The advantage of squared rebar is the crew will rarely step on it. They'll purposely try to step in the squares. Can't do that with mesh.

 

[ovrszd]

My Son with the Crew Cab Long Bed Super Duty says his lift posts are 17' from his overhead door. He says when lifted his truck rear bumper is 4' from the door.

If you go 14', you'll only have 1' of space between the truck and the door. I don't think you'll like that.

 

[grsthegreat]

It's not the weight on the lift pad that's the issue. It's having solid enough concrete to withstand the prying effect.

I've personally never heard of a PEX tube rupture buried in concrete. I think the concrete would have to crack and move apart to do that.

Im not talking about breaking, i mean someone drilling thru them. Last house i wired cabinet maker bolted down island right thru pex tube.

 

[ovrszd]

Im not talking about breaking, i mean someone drilling thru them. Last house i wired cabinet maker bolted down island right thru pex tube.

Sorry, I was responding to your comment about large bases to spread out the weight.

Drilling thru the PEX is what I'm avoiding by suggesting sonotubes. It's what the OP is avoiding by leaving his 4x13 ft box empty of PEX.

 

[grsthegreat]

Nearly all of the units i have hooked up are 4 base units. Personally for myself, i feel safer working under a 4 post unit. Even though i know the 2 post are just as safe. Just look like a humpty dumpty situation to me.

 

[ovrszd]

Nearly all of the units i have hooked up are 4 base units. Personally for myself, i feel safer working under a 4 post unit. Even though i know the 2 post are just as safe. Just look like a humpty dumpty situation to me.

Two post takes up less space. Four post always takes up the same space. I almost always have a Jeep parked on my four post so the space isn't wasted. Newer four post units are mobile with mechanical casters that can be raised/lowered.

I prefer my four post for ease of use. It has two air jacks on it so rotating tires or doing wheel work is easy. Provides great workbench for tools and parts while working.

Two post overall is best for a variety of work.

Best part of a four post is it's use as a Buffet Table for Shop Parties.

 

[grsthegreat]

Two post takes up less space. Four post always takes up the same space. I almost always have a Jeep parked on my four post so the space isn't wasted. Newer four post units are mobile with mechanical casters that can be raised/lowered.

I prefer my four post for ease of use. It has two air jacks on it so rotating tires or doing wheel work is easy. Provides great workbench for tools and parts while working.

Two post overall is best for a variety of work.

Best part of a four post is it's use as a Buffet Table for Shop Parties.

i built my shop 24 years ago....

And its too short for a lift. If i was to do it all over again i would have it designed for one. I would LOVE to have one. And there not even expensive.

 

[ovrszd]

i built my shop 24 years ago....

And its too short for a lift. If i was to do it all over again i would have it designed for one. I would LOVE to have one. And there not even expensive.

My Sons got together with a couple friends and bought four 2 post lifts at the same time. I believe they were around $1,500 each. Will lift their Diesel pickups, 10K I believe. My four post is 12K and I bought it used from an auto dealership. I gave $400 for it and $400 for a pair of used air jacks.