Need water advice

[gcp]

Good morning fellow members,

I have 60 acres in rural Northern Alabama which is utilized as a weekend getaway (our place of serenity). My water meter is about 1 mile away and the water arrives through 3/4" pvc pipe and through other people's property. The pipe is shallow in most places and as a result I'm always faced with breakage repairs, much loss of water and added expense.....

The county refuses to bring the water meter to the entrance of my property, where it belongs, claiming the cost will be much too great for just one person so they claim they can't afford it....like I've not been an Al taxpayer for 40 +years but that's bureaucrats for you.

In any case, I am faced with 2 options; 1) drill a well (difficult to achieve because before I even start I'll have to also cut a load to be able to even bring in the heavy drill equipment necessary, or 2) bring water into a water container from my pond (1.5 acres fed with clean water by a creek/spring...I say clean because every time I measure this water and it reads 5 parts/million).

As it stands, I am leaning toward option 2, especially when considering a) the costs involved & 2) all the water we'll need for our weekend excursions is for toilet use, showers, washing dishes/moping, & minor flowers/tree watering. If I were to go with option 2 I'll have to choose the right pump, which will be located inside my barn approx. 75 yards away from the pond, at an elevation of approx. 20ft (I already have a 1200 liter plastic water container and could land a second pretty easily to double the amount stored). As further explanation, I cannot place the pump in or close to the pond because I don't have power at/around the pond (even though I could probably run power down there I guess, it would just require heavy gauge wire and added cost). If more detailed info is required please don't hesitate to ask me and I'll provide.

Your well thought out advise and experience will be greatly appreciated!

 

[KYErik]

Get a couple of 275 gallon plastic totes and a set of pallet forks and then transport with your tractor and either fill them at the pond/spring OR put a lockable frost proof hydrant in beside your meter and drive the tote 1 mile back and forth with your tractor and fill with drinkable county water. You could bury one of the totes beside the cabin and use it as a freeze proof cistern (bury a short water line as well and drop an electric pump into the top of the underground tote). Then use the other tote to fetch another load and refill it when it starts to get low.

 

[Einthewoods]

I have my own well being we are a long way from any public water. I will always recommend having your own well if possible. I hate being reliant upon public services and the freedom that comes with walking away from them.

Once you have a well, it'll make it that much easier to make other improvements to your get away as well.

 

[Thomas]

Do others in the area have there own well and if so how many gallons per min...if no plan 2 sounds good.

 

[Bocephous]

Figure out a rain collection system, perhaps.

 

[oosik]

I honestly don't know how the water utility allows you to run an "unprotected" private water line that distance - but from your own experience, you can see why I say that.

Anyhow - I would check neighbors for - well depth and production. If their wells are "average" depth and produce an "adequate" volume of potable water - I would recommend going that route.

There can be and are hidden dangers associated with plan #2. Your readings of <5 ppm indicates a turbidity(dirt) reading only. Anybody can choke down a little dirt with no ill effects. The bigger concern is bacterial and viral levels in this water. Remember - surface waters are unprotected and are subject to all sorts of contamination sources.

 

[Bird]

I don't know anything about the laws, rules, etc. in Alabama, and I've not kept up with any recent changes in Texas, but at one time I was a member of the board of directors for our rural water company, so you can take my thoughts for what they're worth.

Moving your water meter would be easy enough, BUT the water company is responsible for the water lines TO THE METER. After the meter is the property owner's responsibility. So you can understand why they don't want the meter moved. They would then be responsible for maintaining that water line. We had a very wealthy property owner with his mansion set far back from his front gate and his water meter was right by the gate. He wanted the meter moved close to the house because he had problems with his line from the meter to the house and he wanted to dump that cost and responsibility on the water company. We refused.

IF you got with your option 2 to bring water from your pond, will you keep the current meter and water line also? Do you think there is a possibility you might want to sell the property some day? I've known of people who could not get financing for a residential property that used a local pond for a water source, regardless of the size of the pond, condition of the water, etc.

SO . . . . I'd recommend drilling the well.

 

[gcp]

KY I appreciate your suggestions but with all due respect the back and forth is not an option for us as I want a more permanent/easier solution for both my wife and myself.

Einthewoods, I know a well would be the preferable long term solution but in my case the costs involved will be much higher because of having to ask for access permission & cut a new road, in addition to cost of digging/installing a well.

Thomas, most neighbors are on county water, been told there's abundance of underground water and if I go 300 ft it should be pretty soft water. Truth is I'm surrounded by water, creeks and springs.....

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I'll second the advice about checking the surface water with a full water test but also caution you that even with good results I would put at the minimum a uv light on it and a 5 micron filter. That surface water changes day to day. I'd say a well looks like the best option. I'd budget atleast 5k to get it put in.

 

[3Ts]

Definately get a bacterial test done on the pond water if you use it for any purpose, even if you don't use it for potable water. The elevation between your barn and the pond is close to the limit for suction lift of a pump. Most pumps are around 23 or 25 feet. You'd be better off running the wire down to the pond and put the pump down there. They can push the water much further and higher than they can pull it.

As for the cost of the well, you should call around. The well drillers are not all the same price. My well is 600' deep with the pump sitting around 300'. 4.5" well casing, with pump & pressure tank cost around $15K.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Just curios on why you have to cut a new road ? How do you access the property now? It’s a very unusual situation to have property that you can not drive to due to other land owners allowing access. If its a bad road issue a water well drilling truck might not need as good as a road as you think as long as their are no bridges that will cave in. Have you checked with a couple of the one in the area?

 

[mobilus]

As cheap as PEX or PVC is, why not rent a decent sized trencher or have a tractor with a subsoiler pull it into the ground? For the distance, I'd go with one-inch. Anyway, it'd be cheaper than drilling a well, in my opinion.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Good morning fellow members,

I have 60 acres in rural Northern Alabama which is utilized as a weekend getaway (our place of serenity). My water meter is about 1 mile away and the water arrives through 3/4" pvc pipe and through other people's property. The pipe is shallow in most places and as a result I'm always faced with breakage repairs, much loss of water and added expense.....

The county refuses to bring the water meter to the entrance of my property, where it belongs, claiming the cost will be much too great for just one person so they claim they can't afford it....like I've not been an Al taxpayer for 40 +years but that's bureaucrats for you.

In any case, I am faced with 2 options; 1) drill a well (difficult to achieve because before I even start I'll have to also cut a load to be able to even bring in the heavy drill equipment necessary, or 2) bring water into a water container from my pond (1.5 acres fed with clean water by a creek/spring...I say clean because every time I measure this water and it reads 5 parts/million).

As it stands, I am leaning toward option 2, especially when considering a) the costs involved & 2) all the water we'll need for our weekend excursions is for toilet use, showers, washing dishes/moping, & minor flowers/tree watering. If I were to go with option 2 I'll have to choose the right pump, which will be located inside my barn approx. 75 yards away from the pond, at an elevation of approx. 20ft (I already have a 1200 liter plastic water container and could land a second pretty easily to double the amount stored). As further explanation, I cannot place the pump in or close to the pond because I don't have power at/around the pond (even though I could probably run power down there I guess, it would just require heavy gauge wire and added cost). If more detailed info is required please don't hesitate to ask me and I'll provide.

Your well thought out advise and experience will be greatly appreciated!

If your water table is high which it should be with that much surface water, then a well might be feasible at less than 100 feet in depth. Where I grew up in NE Louisiana, good water could be found at 40-60 feet in depth. This was 50+ years ago before farm irrigation was popular so things might be different now and surface chemical pollution may be a problem also.

Any way, since we had no rocks to drill thru, the well driller simply washed the bore hole in with a simple spade like bit on the end of a 20 ft. joint of pipe by using recirculated water going down the hole that also brought up the dredgings. The driller could tell if he was in good water sand by the color of the dredgings being washed up. When he was in good water sand, he would just wash out a large hole, set the well point, then fill in around the well point with fine gravel. We got over 50 GPM with a 2" discharge pump from a 50 foot well and the cost was not that great.
Installing a 600' well thru rock with a deep well pump, 4-6" casing gets expensive but you may find that you don't need that type of well.
Check with a local driller to see what you need.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Just in case you replace the existing line. Glued together small diameter PVC for that kind of distance was probably a really bad idea. Usually pipe with slip joints or long rolls that are melted together is preferred. Lots of movement in that kind of length from expansion and contraction, soil movement, freeze thaw issues, etc. The size of the pipe is probably way to small also.

 

[EddieWalker]

Sounds like you just need a better water line. I would never drill a well if I didn't have to , and hauling in water would get old real fast!!!

Since you already have a 3/4 inch water line, that must mean you have an easement for that pipe and you can legally do what you want with it. Are there any other lines of any kind near your pipe that might get cut or damaged if you dig a new trench?

My first goal would be to rent a trencher and run a new line. Gasketed is best because the pipe can slide and out of itself every 20 feet. It's not very hard to install, but there is a small learning curve when you get started. My water company will sell me the pipe at their cost, tax free because the more pipe they use, the better the price they get from their supplier. A mile is't that far to trench a line, it's just like eating an elephant. You do it a little bit at a time!!! I did half a mile by myself in two days. Hardest part was back filling the trench and making it look nice again. Since then, I've gotten a lot better with the blade on a riding trencher.

 

[kenmac]

Have you ask what the cost would be to bring the water main closer to your property ? They may be willing to share the cost with you.

 

[bunyip]

We used to have a property with a dam that was just over 1km away with about a 30' rise, we simply ran a 19mm (3/4") poly pipe in a trench and had a Honda fire pump at the dam.
We would fill the tank, start it up and let it go until the fuel ran out, it was self priming and served us well until we moved away some 20+ years ago, any overflow went onto the garden.
The water was for everything except drinking and as the dam was spring fed it was quite clean.

 

[turnkey4099]

Good morning fellow members,

I have 60 acres in rural Northern Alabama which is utilized as a weekend getaway (our place of serenity). My water meter is about 1 mile away and the water arrives through 3/4" pvc pipe and through other people's property. The pipe is shallow in most places and as a result I'm always faced with breakage repairs, much loss of water and added expense.....

The county refuses to bring the water meter to the entrance of my property, where it belongs, claiming the cost will be much too great for just one person so they claim they can't afford it....like I've not been an Al taxpayer for 40 +years but that's bureaucrats for you.

In any case, I am faced with 2 options; 1) drill a well (difficult to achieve because before I even start I'll have to also cut a load to be able to even bring in the heavy drill equipment necessary, or 2) bring water into a water container from my pond (1.5 acres fed with clean water by a creek/spring...I say clean because every time I measure this water and it reads 5 parts/million).

As it stands, I am leaning toward option 2, especially when considering a) the costs involved & 2) all the water we'll need for our weekend excursions is for toilet use, showers, washing dishes/moping, & minor flowers/tree watering. If I were to go with option 2 I'll have to choose the right pump, which will be located inside my barn approx. 75 yards away from the pond, at an elevation of approx. 20ft (I already have a 1200 liter plastic water container and could land a second pretty easily to double the amount stored). As further explanation, I cannot place the pump in or close to the pond because I don't have power at/around the pond (even though I could probably run power down there I guess, it would just require heavy gauge wire and added cost). If more detailed info is required please don't hesitate to ask me and I'll provide.

Your well thought out advise and experience will be greatly appreciated!

My first thought is the big storage tanks filled with a gasoline driven pump. Electric pump in your barn is not likely to work as the "theoretical" suction from a well is 32' but the practical due to pipe friction, slippagge in pump, etc. is 28' and that is at sea level.

You have a 20' rise and 75yrd pipe friction. That pretty well uses up the practical 'suck' limit on pumps

I would be going with a gas driven pump at the pond plus a filtration/purification system at the house.

You would probably also need and electric pump and tank at the house if you want good pressure.

 

[jfh28]

in terms of option #2 you should check with your department of health to see if your pond would be considered an approved potable source of water........something tells me that would be a no since it could be to easily contaminated and the burden of proof and regular testing required would not be worth it.....and since you are already hooked up to municipal water you may not be permitted to drill a private well either.....fear of cross contamination......Jack

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Rural water systems are always a hassle. I would also recommend upgrading the pipe from the water meter to the house. If you have breakage problems, chances are they used cheap Schedule 20 pipe. The 3/4" line is way undersized for a mile run. Somebody cheaped out and you are paying for it. For a 1 mile run I would use a 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" HDPE line bedded in sand. I think the largest roll of HDPE you can buy is about 1000 ft., so you are going to be stuck with a few joints, but not many. I recommend fusion joints for HDPE. If you go uphill or downhill, you will need to install concrete thrust blocks every once in a while to keep the pipe from crawling itself apart. This is true no matter what pipe you use. Slopes also require you to dispose of water in the trench, or it will erode the line out and make a mess of it. Trench the line in below the frost line. Your local building department can tell you how deep that is.

If you don't have a legal easement to your property, there's no time like the present. As you are finding out with your road problem, landlocked property is a liability. You need a 20' wide easement from the county road to your property line, which would give you room for a road and some utilities, like a water line, beside the road. In the old days they did things like this on a handshake, but those hands have been in the grave for 50 years and nobody living remembers what the agreement was.

If you don't have the thousands of dollars it's going to take to establish a reliable water system, just buy a cistern and fill it with the dribble you are getting out of the 3/4" line. Put a pump on the cistern for domestic water pressure. Spun poly water tanks are easy to find, and a 1/2 hp centrifugal pump would provide plenty of water for domestic use.