Need Tractor Advice (and education)

[handcuff]

Hey All,
I'm in need of some tractor advice, and had been reading here for a while so figured I'd sign up and post. I'm looking to find out specific recommendations for size/type of tractor to buy.

My land:
We've signed contract on a 7 acre plot outside of Louisville, KY. 5 acres is currently flat (very flat, was used as pasture prior to this) and 2 acres border a stream and are fairly heavily wooded and have fair rolling hills to them. The seller indicates that their father used to brushhog the portion closest to the creek to keep it clear of underbrush (and the ensuing ticks/bugs/critters) so the kids had a place to play. It hasn't been cleaned out in several years, though.

My needs:
We plan on brush-hogging 4 acres, finish-mowing 1-1.5 acres around the future house, and then doing a regular (once every few weeks) clearing of the 2 acres bordering the stream - after taking out some of the smaller trees and making it easier to access. Additionally, while I'm not a farmer and am not planning on farming the land, I am planning on having a fairly large garden and a greenhouse, and am planning on building some cool stuff for our 4 boys (bike track, shooting range, volleyball court, etc) in the 'back pasture'. My guess is that this pasture will continue to 'morph' into new things as they get older and want different things out of it.

Finally, there's more than a decent chance that I'll end up buying an additional 6-12 acres immediately across the street (or rather that my inlaws will buy it and we will have use of it/take care of it since they live out of state). It is roughly 6 acres of flat and 6 acres of very wooded (no machine has been in there for a couple decades).

With all of these things, I know I'll be mowing, some tilling, some re-grading of driveways, digging post holes for fences, and moving a fair amount of dirt around. I'll also be doing the other assorted things around a hobby-ranch/farm that one would expect.

My questions:

1. What 'size' tractor should I be looking at? I was initially looking at a 20HP Kubota, but my father has one and suggested that I get something bigger. I don't have to finish mowing in 30 minutes, but I also don't want to spend 6 hours mowing the lawn each week. Now I'm looking at the Kubota 3130. Is that sufficient, or should I go with something bigger? It seems like it should be big enough for what I want, but I don't live this life yet and don't want to 'underbuy' and be sorry later.
2. My wife is stressed about a pull-behind mower (believing that it's less safe than a belly mower). Is this concern legitimate, and/or are there reasons to go with a belly vs. a pull-behind mower?
3. What attachments should I be looking at? I'm looking at a FEL, BH, brushhog (48-60 inch so I can get between the trees), finish mower (72 inch, if I can find it), and an auger. Are there other attachments that I should initially be focused on? I was thinking about the thing that looks like a FEL, but has the teeth on the top and bottom (here's my ignorance popping out) to help clear out the brush. Also a rototiller, and a few other 'toys' but I don't know what's really helpful vs what's useless junk.
4. Are there things I should stay away from, given the size tractor I'm looking at? i.e. Will a 30HP tractor have the power for a 60" brushhog? I hear that (for the most part) Chinese attachments are to be avoided. Are there other things that I should be aware of?
5. Finally, what considerations should I be making when looking at tractors in general? For instance, I hear a lot of talk about a 3 point hook-up with a back-hoe, but don't understand that. Also a quick-disconnect, and a way to quickly swap between attachments (or maybe that IS the quick disconnect).
6. What are the major functional differences between the differing types of transmissions? I see a lot of discussion about HST and Gear, but don't know what the differences are or (more importantly0 how those differences would impact a novice like myself.
7. Are there any specific tractors that I should be looking at that directly compete with the Kubota L series, or ones I SHOULDN'T be looking at? For instance, I've also been looking at the JD, Kioti, and Mahindra tractors (but other than HP, I don't know how they compare/differ). I've also looked at the Kubota B series, but don't know what the significant differences are between B and L of their line-up (besides just weight and size)

Any help is really appreciated.

Please feel free to simply point me in the direction of previous threads, if that's easier...I have gone looking at several, but obviously I don't know what threads may be valuable vs worthless since my knowledge-base is fairly minimal.
Thanks,
-Scott

 

[Egon]

Welcome.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

So you require a tractor and all that goes with it!

From your comments 30-35 HP. should suit your needs. Look at the more common colours and dealer availability. Also check out how many brands of toys the dealer handles or can get for you.

Think seriously of a tractor designed for a backhoe with easy removal.

HST may be the transmission of choice as it will make the back and forth jobs much more enjoyable.

MMM can be irritating to mount and remove. Any other work should not be down with it mounted.

For the other items Ill pass on making any type of recommendation as your needs may change.

Do lots of shopping. Look at used accessories. Make yourself knowledgable about your local tractor/equipment situation by doing a lot of looking.

Shopping is fun. Enjoy the experience.:thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

couple of things, I have never heard that MMM were safer than Rear finish mowers. Both can do a good job, both have pluses and minuses. The MMM is easier to manuever around trees, and trim up close to them (like your lawn mower)..The Rear finish mower is easier to mow under trees that have a lot of overhang as you can back under them without fighting all the limbs. The HST makes this easier, to change directions instantly. I am TOTALY biased in favor of Hydrostat. It makes loader work and the just mention backing under trees so much easier. It is also easy for anyone to learn how to use.. Think no learning curve. Others have said I am obsessed with recomending the HST tranny, yep its true, I cannot imagine any new person to tractors not enjoying the benefits of an hydro. They do cost more up front, Cost maybe 20 bucks more each hydraulic fluid change for an extra filter. some will mention that the hydro "eats" a little power, yep its true. about 5 to 8 percent. Like Egon, I am thinking 30 to 35 maybe a little bigger tractor. Basically size the tractor to the size of the implements you want to use.. Bigger tractor bigger implements, and faster job completion. But smaller tractors can get most jobs done too, just takes longer. The clawlike thing on the front end is called a grapple, and this will require you purchase a tractor with Skid Steer Quick Attach SSQA , this will allow you to swap out the bucket, to a grapple or forks in just a couple of minutes or less. You will also need a "third function valve" and remotes on the front end loader. this sends hydraulic fluid up front to run the grapple so you still have Lift/Lower, Curl/Dump, and Grapple closure/opening all at the same time. You can also use a diverter valve to take away the Curl/Dump function of your existing Front End Loader (FEL) valve for a second to use for the grapple, but it is not quite as good of a setup. Although a lot of guys get along fine with them.

I dont own one, but from what I can tell you dont want a backhoe that mounts on the 3pt hitch.. real backhoes mount on a subframe attached to the tractor. Not sure you need a backhoe at all, but they are nice if you have the money, they are pricey, and you can rent a mini-ex for about 150 to 200 per day, and get more work done from what I understand. I have no personal experience with them. Look at all the brands, If we start recommending brands here it can start a small brushfire with differing opinions. you cannot go wrong with JohnDeer, Kubota Kioti, Massey Ferguson. I would have said New Holland, but they are in flux right now with this size tractor, in changing suppliers and the future is a little hazy in my opinion. Others may beg to differ. But other brands are also worth considering. A lot depends on finding a dealer you trust and like. And then Read, read read and then try to sit on and operate all that you can, Good luck, and it is a "requirement" that you post pictures if you buy one of any color.

James K0UA

 

[Wolfy]

Scott, the 3 point backhoe is a no go. You want the subframe, as it will keep your tractor in one piece. Woods is excellent, however you need to remove the 3 point arms to install it. I would look at Bradco, as the arms can stay put. And look closely on craigslist. I see used 3 pt implements all the time, that have been used very little, you could save major money. I have stopped and asked people running tractors like I'm looking at, what they think of them. I can't recall one time anyone getting annoyed.

 

[Beltzington]

My observations as a relatively new tractor owner (3-years) maintaining 8-acres of mostly pasture.

- Love HST would not want to be shifting every time I change direction or speed
- 4WD is worth every penny, use it all the time from wet grass to mud
- Think of a FEL as a powered wheel borrow, very useful
- Small tractors have small front wheels no fun when mowing over ruts
- Rear Rotary Cutter (BushHog) does a very good job for most mowing requirements
- I have not needed more or wanted less than my 36HP PTO rating
Best wishes on your search.

 

[johnrex62]

Advice is pretty unanimous. I do very similar work on my 4 acres of woods and use an L3700SU with a 60" rotary cutter to clear out saplings up to 3" caliper and very thick smaller stuff and thorny vines. I don't have much in the way of hills, but do have a lot of washes and runoff gullies to navigate so I face shorter versions of the hills you face. The only thing I have tried to do so far that has been an effort is pulling 4" caliper trees out of the ground with a chain.

I would suggest a backhoe can come in handy for grubbing out some of the larger stuff you may need to clear and for future projects. I did not get one and have had some regret, but no pressing need sufficient to go back and spend the money yet. It would have made getting some of my larger "saplings" out of the way though.

In the Kubota line I would look at the L3700SU, L3800, or L4400 or if you want to spend a bunch more look at the Grand L series in the 35-45 hp range. The 3pt hitch on the Grand L line is nicer and there are some other bells and whistles too. The larger units will be able to lift a bit more in the FEL than the smaller ones and that could come in handy at some point.

Anything in the ranges suggested will perform admirably for you. As you spend more, your capacity will be enhanced but you have to decide how big to go based on your wallet and not mine.

 

[handcuff]

Thanks for the advice. I'm broadening my search somewhat, and am starting to look at the 3430, and the 3700/4400. I don't fully understand what the "Grand L" is compared to the L series... What category does the 3130 fit within? I'm not incredibly concerned with bells and whistles, but I'd like some core functionality. Is there a reason to go with the 3130 vs the 3700 (or the other way around)? Is there something more important to know about the tractor than simply the HP and the HP at PTO? I know that sounds incredibly stupid, but I keep looking at the tractors with 'larger numbers' expecting them to be significantly more expensive, and it doesn't seem to play out that way...if that's the case, why aren't the larger HP tractors more expensive/why would anyone consider getting the smaller HP tractors?

The HST sounds like a no-brainer for a novice like myself, so thanks for the input.

I forgot to ask the question about the 4 wheel drive, but was wondering...I thought it would matter, but was wondering if it would matter for a flat field like mine. Thanks for the advice.

Our good friends just came over tonight and shared a story of a friend of their brothers who's 7 yr old daughter got caught between the tractor and the brush hog. It was obviously a tragically gruesome incident. My wife used that as the final evidence that we need to have a belly mower (I haven't really gotten into the fact that we are going to have to have a pull behind for the brush hog/clearing the underbrush).

Is there a solution to the "small front wheel" thing mentioned by Beltzington? I've seen some tractors that appear to have larger front wheels than others, but the tractors themselves don't appear larger. Is that a personal preference thing, or just a different model tractor, or what?

Thanks again for the feedback. This is beyond helpful.
-Scott

 

[Beltzington]

FWD just offers more traction and more power on the ground in any situation. Even on flat ground it has saved my day pulling a stuck POV from some very slick clay. Folks farmed for years without FWD but on a sub-compact I would highly recommend it.

Everything is relative to the task at hand. You can supersize the front wheels on any tractor however my main point was to consider the terrain you will be mowing. I typically rotary cut anywhere from 3 6 mph and if I forget location of a rut I am very thankful for the air ride seat. The smaller the tractor the slower you will need to mow if you do not want to beat it and yourself to death.

Not sure there is any way to dissuade your wife on the safety issue however you are just as dead whether you a run over by a compact car or a truck. The rear rotary cutter in my opinion is much more versatile and less cumbersome then a MMM. For rough cutting you can back into some stuff you would never consider driving over and it lets you mow around trees without driving under them.

 

[Alien]

I have a 30hp Kioti with HST and FEL. I have 40 acres. While the 30 hp suits most needs, at times I wish I had a lttle bit more HP and larger front wheels when digging/shifting dirt with the bucket. HP is quite ok for everything else.
HST I wouldn't do without. Also I LOVE the joystick control on my Kioti (Daedong) for the FEL. I have used others but it is just so comfortable and easy to use.
So..
1. FEL with Joystick control
2. HST
3. Maybe 40 - 50 HP for serious bucket work. (Bigger hp, more fuel)
4. Definitely 4x4

Cheers
Doug

Scott, I should mention that the small front wheels have dug in in boggy ground and caused the back wheels to then dig in as well. The small ones break through the top crust very quickly and even using the loader to get myself out can be very difficult at times.

 

[johnrex62]

For the mid mount mower (mmm or belly mower) you are restricted to a smaller B series or the larger Grand L series, currently L3240 L3540 or L3940 according to the website. The standard L series does not offer this option. The fastest way to avoid the small tire problem is to buy a larger tractor as the wheels will be bigger.

The attraction of the smaller tractors is that they are often used in tight spaces in semi rural settings rather than on acreage with larger spaces to manuever. They fit better in the family garage and feel more like the lawn mower the owner is used to. Big tractor are intimidating until you get used to operating them. If all you plan to do is mow your yard and tote mulch to the flower beds, you don't need much power and the occasional work you do can be accomplished by the B or BX series easily. They are really powerful for their size, but are not intended to be used like a Grand L or M series (AG) tractor.

It won't help with the emotional objection, but the belly mower is just as dangerous as the 3pt attached rear mowers. Any sharp or moving part is incredibly dangerous and must be handled with the utmost respect and care. You can lose a foot or worse to the mid mower as fast as you can lose an arm to the pto shaft or a rotary cutter blade. Heck even a push mower can do real damage with handled carelessly.

 

[k0ua]

What we are all trying to say is dont buy a MMM based on an emotional response. If you want a MMM then by all means buy one, but not for the reason stated. Of course if you want MMM then that narrows the choices, and throws out all of the L and M series tractors in the Kubota line as you need a Mid PTO that they do not have. So B series or Grand L series. Grand L series are heavier, Their loaders have more lift capability, and they have many deluxe features. including an advanced Hydrostat transmission with several elecronically controlled features. Google, or search for Hydrostat Plus sometimes called HST+ there are also different versions of this. These advanced and Deluxe features are very nice, and useful, but they do come at an "advanced'" price. Many of us simply cannot afford or justify spending 5 to 6 thousand more for a tractor that basically does the same thing, albeit maybe a little easier or better. Also some of the Kioti line compare to the Grand L Kubota line, and also Bobcat. Some of those really worthwhile features like Telescoping lower 3pth links and Telescoping "sway chains" are really worthwhile features to have to make hooking up 3pt implements easier. There are "workarounds" if you dont have them. Whether you want to buy one of the more expensive models or one of the lower priced , lower featured models is up to you and your wallet. Be sure to get the SSQA on your Front End Loader no matter what you buy, as you will be kicking your own Butt for years after for not doing so. The ability to quickly change implements on you Front end is just as important as changing 3pt implements on the rear end. I learned that lesson the hard expensive retrofit way. Good luck, keep asking questions and take your time making your decision.. thanks for stopping by.

James K0UA

 

[Egon]

I forgot to ask the question about the 4 wheel drive, but was wondering...I thought it would matter, but was wondering if it would matter for a flat field like mine. Thanks for the advice./QUOTE]

For doing any loader work the four wheel assist comes in very handy. Helps in all kinds of situations that require some extra traction.

The front tire size is dictated by the gearing on four wheel assist. The diameter must remain the same as the originals.

 

[RPW]

Don't get tied up on a single brand. Find as many local dealers as you can. Not only are purchasing a machine but you're also investing in a dealership to support you. I agree do not decide on implements based on emotion. Face it tractors and their implements are dangerous by nature. Don't let children play around the equipment. My wife lost an uncle to a tractor accident and was very nervous when I bought my machine.

Good luck on your new purchase.

 

[stub]

I had a MMM mower on a small B7510 Kubota. With MMM on, you have virtually no ground clearance for tractor work, ie; fel work, driveway maint, ground work, etc.

Taking MMM off and on had to be done on cement and it was still a pain.

For the price of a MMM, you can buy a low-end ZTR and a 3pt cutter, and you have a much more versatile package.

 

[TripleR]

You have received some excellent advice so far and all I can add is that I have found in many situations that a one machine/tractor to do it all simply doesn't work. Any one machine is going to cause compromise in another area. Our primary tractors are a BX and Grand L 5030 though we do own others. The BX is primarily for mowing and the GL for everything else.

You could go with a dedicated lawn mower and something in the 35-40 or so for everything else.

As for your dirt projects, you need something bigger. My sons and I built a shooting range using a couple of fairly big tractors and it took months and a LOT of diesel. The floods this spring washed it almost all away and if we rebuild will rent heavy equipment.

We rent a mini excavator rather than buy back hoe, but if you can afford one they can be handy to have around, we have just found better uses for our money.

Your wife will just have to accept that a cutter is going to be essential and if she has to keep the kids in the house etc. while it is in operation then do what makes her comfortable. Some really like flail mowers as opposed to rotary cutters, but I have no experience with them.

As to "bells and whistles", I find they enhance mt comfort and productivity, some don't.

Look at the brands mentioned so far and you will find the one that is right for you.

 

[ustmd]

My wife and I were almost in exactly the same situation, down to the in-laws moving in next door.:laughing:

We have a 30 hp and it does everything we need.

To echo the advice about the finish mower. We bought one. It has been used twice in 3 years. Depending on what you do for landscaping in the 1.0- 1.5 acres around the house, the turning radius on the tractor may be more of a hassle then the benefits you get from using it. If the area is nothing but wide open grass (or grass with a very few obstructions), then it will be great. Buy if you are like us, between the trees we planted, the flower/planting beds we put in and the swing set/play area for the kid, the tractor with the finish mower is useless (too much time backin' and fillin' to get around the stuff in the yard). A riding lawn mower (or ZTR) is much easier to use in that area and faster.

One other piece of advice, you don't need to buy everything upfront. Get a good tractor, a brush hog, a box blade and a FEL and then live with it for awhile to see. A backhoe attachment is a great piece of equipment and sounds exciting to have, but you may find that you woul do better renting one or renting an actual backhoe for the times you need it then paying $8-$12K for an attachment that will sit around for 364 days a year.

 

[dmrp6510]

I think you should take a close look at the Jd 2000 and 3000 series for the the simple reason you can get mmm that are drive over and only take 5 minutes to take on and off without lifting or pulling your wife could take the mower deck off

Also with only 7 acres I think a 40hp tractor is a little big because what you are going to find is that the larger machines will start to rut your grass and you find that you will have to do alot more hand mowing or trimming with a large tractor

We have 27 acres and 3 houses so I mow about 10 acres a week between all 3 houses we have a Jd 3720 ,2320 and a ferris is2500 zero turn

I would suggest you look at 2 pieces a2000 series tractor and a zero turn to mow one that helps the wife with the mower problem 2 you can mow the grass after it rains and be done alot faster

Sorry guys about typing I'm using my phone

 

[KU Gator]

My wife years ago was operating a Sears lawn tracter we had just bought at her parents house to mow some unkept areas. She ran over some unseen bolts and a 3/8" bolt was thrown and stuck in my mother-in-laws leg. Mowers are dangerous no matter the size. The safety measure is to keep others away and your head in the game when using them. A brush hog will run a long time after you take the pto out of gear and if you forget about that or someone doesn't realize it, it won't be pretty.

I have a MMM. When we bought the tractor, I did not consider buying an RFM. The MMM is nice to use because it is easier to judge where you are when mowing close to something, doesn't have a big turning radius as does an RFM or even worse a brush hog, but as mentioned is more of a pain to take off or install and more expensive. They are pretty tough, but not a substitute for a brush hog to clear areas. I think using the MMM is slightly safer because the shaft is not exposed at least easily to someone and the MMM does add some weight low like the ballast on a sailboat for when you are mowing on an incline, but neither of these would be enough to sway me one way or the other as to MMM vs RFM.

We have property similar to yours and bought a B2920. It is small enough to be trailerable and a great size for our 3 acres where we live. But on the other acreage, it is ok, but clearly a bit bigger tractor would have been beneficial in a number of the things I have gotten into.

 

[KU Gator]

I re-read your post and realized you were also asking for thoughts on tractors. In Kubota's line, I would have a hard time recommending any of the B series tractors that utilize a 1/4" valve to control lifting the 3 Pt hitch to anyone who is going to use the tractor a lot for brush hogging. It works nice and smooth and and works fine for everything I do except running the rotary mower. That is because it will not keep the implent at a set height for a prolonged period of time. In 15 minutes it will drop about 3/4". If you are mowing and forget about it, you will turn around and see the front of the mower dragging on the ground. There are work arounds, but I would still recommend avoiding it. With that said, the B3030 is a tractor with features very similar to the Grand L (no HST + and no digital dash board) but in a smaller cheaper size. It has the telescopic stabilizers and telescopic lower arms to make hooking up implements easier, probably eliminating the need for a quick attach and it has position control for the 3 pt hitch which will hold the implement on the back at the height you want. The 3030 should handle a 5' brush hog and a 6' RFM that you speced.

The basic L's with the model numbers ending in 00 have the jerky hitch issue that you can find plenty on in the Kubota section unless you go to the L4400. Or if you want/need the size of a Grand L, they are very nice.