monolitic slab

[Loaderman22]

Yes I wish I would have put rigid foam underneath but I did not. To the bottom of the floor joists supporting the second story from the concrete floor is a bit over 10 feet. I guess I could place EPS foam on the floor (they have some that support 40 or 60 psi. I could pour concrete over that or put wooden floor joist in and add the rigid foam between the joists. Kind of like tall sleepers. I have two standard entry doors but it would not be hard to remove them and change the opening. The stairwell would be a problem unless I made the new floor at finish the same height as the first step. It would be even with it and effectively gone but then all the steps would be of uniform height. It is a steel stairway.
I am really open to all suggestions. Will have to see what they require. Maybe rafters on the floor may be the way to go. The floor would then be insulated. Maybe some room for duct work or lines depending on which was the rafters would be ran. If so if one isolated the joists with a moisture barrier could FPS wood be used or treated.
I like this site. A lot of minds with ideas and experience.

You could lay down a layer of T&G rigid for your vapor barrier and thermal break, then PT joists( if code allows) then even batt in between. Would give you a decent floor system. Block below joists for support, but don't create point loads (might need to remove rigid in these locations). I like the idea of making it level with 1st tread, simplifies stair issue. This doesn't solve the "inspector wants insulation around the perimeter to keep it from heaving" issue. Any digging below the B.O. foundation will open the possibility of undermining which would do more damage to a slab that hasn't heaved. Your load from above is carried by the outside perimeter, so that's the area you want to keep supported.

 

[Egon]

Consider looking at the soil conditions to determine if soil heaving is possible. There is expansion when soil freezes but Frost heaves are just a little different and do require certain conditions.

The density of air will determine how it layers. Basically heat transfers relies on conduction, convection and radiant transfer.

 

[/pine]

You real sure you want to lock dat position in Slushy? I give you time to think on it.

LoL...It must be embarrassing for someone that claims to be a welding genius like yourself to have to face the fact that you're clueless about at least some of the laws of thermodynamics...or maybe you're one of those that think the Earth is flat too ??...LoL...!


Second Law of Thermodynamics

 

[user.69169]

How you account fer thermosiphon cooling systems workin on small tractors Slushy? Dey liquid. Dey rely on heat rising to move liquid widout water pump.

 

[/pine]

How you account fer thermosiphon cooling systems workin on small tractors Slushy? Dey liquid. Dey rely on heat rising to move liquid widout water pump.

You need to be able to comprehend the laws of thermodynamics and the theories behind them...a good place to start is learning about "natural convection" google it...it will help you to figure out what you don't seem to understand...

 

[yanmars]

The building has been there 23 years. Over that time some subzero temps. No cracking or heaving. It is built where there is natural drainage all around. On the top of a flat spot on a hill. I have never put up spoutings or any type of drainage around the perimeter and it is still dry. I do plan to add at least spoutings and downspouts and underground pvc to route and water away. I would think that would even help some, can't hurt.
I also measured the rise of the steps today. Right at 7 inches. Thus my plan of 2x6s (actual 5.5 inches), covered with 3/4 plywood and 3/4 inch hardwood flooring would flush it to the first step and leave room for rigid foam between the joist that could set on the level concrete floor with some type of vapor barrier under the joists. I went to my stock pile. I have well more plywood than I need and much 100 year old hardwood joists that are more real 2x6 and 2x8s but I could cut them down to 5.5 easily enough. I have rolls of visquene (probably spelled wrong) or I could use Goodyear rubber roofing if I cut it in narrow strips to place under the joists. I do not have enough completely cover the concrete first. I
If the foam does not come all the way to the top of the joist is there some kind of water resistant loose fill insulation I could add to fill any small gaps between the foam and joists on the side and top?
Also my split face blocks are hollow except for near the doors and corners where rebar and mortar filled them solid. I could try to drill though the sill plate and pour in some type of water resistant insulation or put spray foam of some type in there. They would get pretty cold as is.
Now all of this is dependent on getting approval for the same from the County building regs. If I ran the floor joist in a certain direction I could potentially have some room for wiring, plumbing or heat. Unsure how to heat it, had considered Mitsubishi high efficiency splits. I guess guy could put heating coils in the floor and pour concrete over the top. If the floor is heated they say the house is warm. Would not help the second floor though.
If one put coils in the floor I do not know if one would use geo thermal then and costs differences. Still need AC especially for the top floor.
We do not have natural gas so it would have to be propane or electric heat.
Thanks for the informative comments.

 

[user.69169]

You need to be able to comprehend the laws of thermodynamics and the theories behind them...a good place to start is learning about "natural convection" google it...it will help you to figure out what you don't seem to understand...

YOU need to answer de question on de table, not evade as you sinkin into de slush.

 

[user.69169]

Yanmars, maybe best thing you can do is back off fer a while and do some lookin into Commonwealth Ag Regulations.

If you got regulations like NY you best served to use dem and declare structure "Farm Labor Housing" and endrun local crapola.
Don't look to town er county inspector people to help you, generally dey don't know about Ag Districts & special rules fer farmers. IQ of such people not real high, and no penalty against dem when dey wrong. Dey used to people caving in.

NY Ag remodel fer labor housing even give farmer 10 year ZERO tax fer remodel.

 

[/pine]

YOU need to answer de question on de table, not evade as you sinkin into de slush.

I did answer the question...it's you that doesn't understand the answer that is the problem...you can argue until you're as blue as smurfette but it's not going to change the laws of nature (and physics)...!.

 

[rScotty]

Yanmar, around here most remodel jobs like yours eventually run into snags because of the difference in codes. Sometimes it is just a difference in the way the codes are interpreted then and now. Sometimes the interpretations make sense, and sometimes not.

The local way for a homeowner to deal with the kind of problem you describe is to draw up your plans, have the inspector look them over for potential problems, and then take them to a registered professional engineer for his modification, blessing, and stamp. That means it will automatically pass inspection. Cost for that stamp on a basic remodel plan tends to run in the 500 to 2000 dollar range and any good PE can save you that or most of that with his changes.
rScotty

 

[user.69169]

I happy to wait fer you to come up wid answer Slush.

You blowin like hurricane but you ain't makin progress.
Maybe help you if you draw out wid yer crayons.

 

[stuckmotor]

I happy to wait fer you to come up wid answer Slush.

You blowin like hurricane but you ain't makin progress.
Maybe help you if you draw out wid yer crayons.

(removed) & / or / & (removed)


You two are off to a good start if you decide to team up.


Some acts that might give you ideas are Williams and Ree (The Indian and the White Guy), Abbott and Costello, Stan and Ollie, Tom and Dick, George and Gracie. and Sunny and Cher. You could get a million subscribers on a Youtube Channel then, when the cassinos open back up, I think you'd do well in the ones along the Mississippi.


Good luck and keep polishing the act,
Stuck

 

[Loaderman22]

Yes I wish I would have put rigid foam underneath but I did not. To the bottom of the floor joists supporting the second story from the concrete floor is a bit over 10 feet. I guess I could place EPS foam on the floor (they have some that support 40 or 60 psi. I could pour concrete over that or put wooden floor joist in and add the rigid foam between the joists. Kind of like tall sleepers. I have two standard entry doors but it would not be hard to remove them and change the opening. The stairwell would be a problem unless I made the new floor at finish the same height as the first step. It would be even with it and effectively gone but then all the steps would be of uniform height. It is a steel stairway.
I am really open to all suggestions. Will have to see what they require. Maybe rafters on the floor may be the way to go. The floor would then be insulated. Maybe some room for duct work or lines depending on which was the rafters would be ran. If so if one isolated the joists with a moisture barrier could FPS wood be used or treated.
I like this site. A lot of minds with ideas and experience.

You could lay down a layer of T&G rigid for your vapor barrier and thermal break, then PT joists( if code allows) then even batt in between. Would give you a decent floor system. Block below joists for support, but don't create point loads (might need to remove rigid in these locations). I like the idea of making it level with 1st tread, simplifies stair issue. This doesn't solve the "inspector wants insulation around the perimeter to keep it from heaving" issue. Any digging below the B.O. foundation will open the possibility of undermining which would do more damage to a slab that hasn't heaved. Your load from above is carried by the outside perimeter, so that's the area you want to keep supported.

 

[/pine]

I happy to wait fer you to come up wid answer Slush.

You blowin like hurricane but you ain't makin progress.
Maybe help you if you draw out wid yer crayons.

LMAO...your argumentative technique reminds me of the black knight...you just can't seem to face the facts...LoL...!

skip ahead to about 2:30...

Monty Python And The Holy Grail- The Black Knight - YouTube

 

[yanmars]

loaderman: Waiting to see how my thoughts go with the requirements. Not sure when I will meet with them. Hopefully able to do something this Spring when the weather breaks.

 

[Loaderman22]

loaderman: Waiting to see how my thoughts go with the requirements. Not sure when I will meet with them. Hopefully able to do something this Spring when the weather breaks.

I have found it works best if you go in not demanding, but willing to work with them. And as others have said also, you may be able to work with a local structural engineer to verify the soil and stamp some plans.

 

[Loaderman22]

Also going now when they are not busy, more willing to help you. Also gives you time to get your ducks in a row if they ask for a stamp or soil approval before they will give you a permit.

 

[yanmars]

I have not been demanding. I am sure that would not get me far. I am hoping it all works out.

 

[user.69169]

You need zoning and approval fer Hobby shop? No public just you and family?

Use de system to defeat de system.

 

[coobie]

How do you say idiot in your pidgin?

Thall 303