MIG or Stick?

[alltoys]

All our welders had to be certified for high vacuum work.. Not the welding process, but the environment their work had to exist in.
I worked at one of the National Laboratories... Basic research.. Big Bang, and all that stuff. Linear and ring particle accelerators, research reactors, smashing atoms together.. Many of the experiments required vacuum chambers that had to be sealed very well. The welders had to be tested and qualified every so often..
Don't ask me about the science... I'm just a dumb glorified machinist, but the welders we had were the cream of the crop.. For this area... not putting anyone else down..
Besides that, they were usually great guys, always willing to help out with someone's project..
I don't miss the job, but I miss access to a fully equipped machine shop for my personal stuff, and I miss alot of my co-workers..

That makes sense thought there was a new type of welder or process out there. I have been involved with vacume tubing in the past it wasn't under the same guide lines as pressure work but close. Vacume tubing needed to be smooth on the inside of the joint very hard to do in position.

Unfortunately a home welder needs to be versatile as we weld things very thin to a possible half inch thick in both steel and aluminum materials. I have a power source that accommodates MIG, STICK, and TIG, I have all the bases covered.

When it comes right down to it a small 110 MIG and a 110 STICK Inverter are more than a home welder needs. If you have something thin not a problem, if it is thick like half inch or more then multi-pass. Preparation of the weldment is 99% of the job.

 

[jwillett]

At work I have a red and a blue welder and I like both but the blue is 3 phase and does better on heavy stuff. The red is single phase and welds smoother to me. The bottom line is they both get the job done. The red has more going for it though as it is a mig, stick and tig (strike to arc DC only) built into one machine. I was able to buy one from work when they shut down one section, it only had 10 hours on it and had the gage package on it as well all for $250.00 as that was all the used equipment buyer would give for it. I would love to find the AC box for it so I could weld Al. I also have a red SP 135 110 volt unit at home that I really like too.

Red

Blue

Jim

 

[flusher]

I will be running on 220 voltage for repairs and modifications on mild steel from maybe .093 sheet to probably no thicker than 5/16".. Much of the work could possibly be done outside.
I worked in machine shops my entire adult life as a tool & die maker. Used to do a fair amount of stick welding before getting a job in a union shop.. No more welding for me! But, I had access to extremely talented certified high vacuum welders... Many of them were true artists and forgot more about welding than I nwill ever know..

But, for my purposes, what is the best solution... MIG or Stick??

Whatever I get will be Blue, otherwise my old buddies would never speak to me again!

I use a Hobart Stickmate LX AC/DC stick welder, 220V. Works fine for me. I weld 1/8" to 1/4" stuff mostly. I use 1/8" dia 7014, and 7024 drag rods which I find easier to start and keep going than 7018, although I use 7018 occassionally. I find that my most frequent error is moving the puddle too fast. I have to remind myself constantly to slow down and let the arc heat do the work.

 

[mojoinco]

I can't add much (and maybe will restrain myself from typing much). I have had a couple of arc welders. AC units can be had for as little as $50.
AC/DC will cost a bunch more. They add versatility as they can make different welds with little set up (just buy the correct rods). DC is much more versatile. But it takes a lot to learn to do well.

Wire feed welding is easier to master, with its own limitations (it is not for overhead welding, though you can often get away with it). Wire feed welding probably has several names for its various methods, but gas shielded is called MIG, and non-gas with flux core isn't. The cheapest wire welders are flux core only, and may have a very low duty cycle rating for the wire size they use (like .025"). Better machines will weld larger wire with longer duty cycles (x% of a ten minute time frame -- depending on local conditions like ambient temps & humidity, cool intake air, etc).

A lot of folks have made some good suggestions for machines. Name brand matters, as support for the various overseas products can be tough. There are usually several of the smaller wire fed Lincoln's in my local Craigslist. And plenty of the small arc welders (225 amp or so) units. As a machinist you are well aware of when paying too little costs more.

Airco, Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, Linde, and a few others, are all good possibilities. I have been looking around for a tig welder for a while. One of the things I noticed and came to terms with is that a lot of the large old arc welders (ac/dc usually) were the core machines for tig welders, and even if I didn't have the power to run one at full bore, I had plenty of power to run one at what I would need.

Personally, I have found my old AC arc welder rarely gets used, but occasionally I have that rusty/dirty situation, or really big piece that I either want to weld to completion, or at least tack it in place and see where I am going before coming along with the MIG welder (man, mig is so much cleaner than flux core). Some arc rods are very clean as well (I would say even pretty by the results).

The toughest part of all this is recognizing when the work has been done correctly, regardless of welding process. There are several welding forums out there (I think each of the major brand names have them in addition to others that are like this forum -- unsponsored). They can help you with info on any particular machine as you find them. Some are more throw away, others are more repairable (for example, my private label Hobart Handler 180 is NOT the same as a Miller of similar power, the Miller is definitely built differently/better). And there is a price difference!

You will also want to consider the cutting method(s) you will want to use. As pointed out, the Oxy/acetylene v Oxy/propane v plasma. Plasma is usually a second source as you almost always will want a way to heat and braze things. But is sure saves on weld prep time!

Buy yourself a good small side arm grinder (4.5"). It's easier to use and far less tiring than a 7 or 9" one (another second round machine). Plus it will get into tighter spots. You will likely want to have two: one to grind with, one with a wire brush for cleaning and slag removal. This is definitely where spending enough money matters (deals always count). Try Tylertools on line for prices on refurbished tools. Or Toolking.

Well, I typed more than I meant. Sorry.

 

[Reg]

Since you have had some experience with stick I suggest you go for MIG.
I base this on the assumption that you KNOW about penetration and that you "can weld".

With NO experience of any kind I think there would be risk of running a MIG as a hot glue gun and just putting down light surface beads, but that doesn't seem to apply to you.

BOTH is a better choice, but you had worded it as "which ?"
I have a TIG/Stick rig, an AC only buzz box and oxy/acetylene, but no MIG.
Sure, I would LIKE one, just a simple matter of spending priorities.
I got a plasma cutter recently, that popped up the priorities list a bit unexpectedly - OK, as an impulsive purchase.

 

[Dargo]

...tack it in place and see where I am going before coming along with the MIG welder (man, mig is so much cleaner than flux core). Some arc rods are very clean as well (I would say even pretty by the results).

That's why I stated that I really dislike flux core and won't even buy any. I've had clerks at Rural King etc. tell me that the flux core wire they have is "better than" the regular .035 name brand wire they have because I don't need to "waste" time and money with gas. I just go along with them and buy my wire. I don't figure it's worth my time to debate someone who has likely never welded anything. I don't weld for a living by any means, but at times I do a bit of welding. I've gone through 3 ten pound spools and am on my 2nd bottle of gas in the last couple of weeks. My dad says "Okay, what did you do after lunch then". (Implying that amount of use is light use) Like I said, it's not for an occupation, but for hobby, repair and fabrication use. Sometimes I won't touch my machine for a month or two. It all depends.

 

[2manyrocks]

Flux core is good for welding angle and stuff like that for the guy who rarely welds and doesn't want to get into the expense of leasing or buying a bottle. It has deeper penetration than plain wire, but it's not good at all for thin panels because it tends to burn through. I think if you look at the charts on wire thickness and gas, however, a gas/wire combination allows you to weld on a wider range of materials plus it's relatively clean.

If I had to pick only one welder, stick or mig, I'm not sure what I'd do. It's kind of like saying you can have only one tractor.

 

[cdhd2001]

I use a Hobart Stickmate LX AC/DC stick welder, 220V. Works fine for me. I weld 1/8" to 1/4" stuff mostly. I use 1/8" dia 7014, and 7024 drag rods which I find easier to start and keep going than 7018, although I use 7018 occassionally. I find that my most frequent error is moving the puddle too fast. I have to remind myself constantly to slow down and let the arc heat do the work.

I also really like the 7014 rods. Start and stop real easy, plus have good medium penetration qualities.

For stick welding, you really should get an ac/dc box. The weld quality is much smoother and easier using dc instead of ac.

 

[RPW]

Best welder depends on the job. I've been luck and have all 4 types O/A, mig, stick, tig both AC/DC. I'm not a professional but I do believe in using the right tool for the right job "if possible". For general work mig and stick would be best. If you really want to have some fun get yourself a tig. I've been having a blast "playing". Hopefully I'll be going to our local college in a month or so to pick up a course in welding. I can do ok but want to be better.

 

[ESierra62]

I have used a buzz box, a diesel stick welder, and own a Miller mig. Loved em all. Now I am looking at purchasing a tig/stick welder so I can weld aluminum stainless, etc. and have more control over what I am doing. Either one you need to use a machine that matches the job! No other reason, getting by probably a mig but I have had bad luck with the lincoln weldpac. Beware!

 

[hilld]

I like to weld with both, depending the job and I only have 1 machine. Mine is a Miller XMT 304, it is a multiprocess welder, meaning it can do CC and CV, the only thing it won't do is AC TIG, but if I ever have the need for that, I will either rent a TIG welder or farm the job out. I did have to purchase a feeder for the power unit, but I bought both units used from the local welding shop, it was one of their rentals and they gave me a 1 year warranty on it. So far is has served all my needs.

Hope that helps a little, but you have already gotten great advice.

Derek

 

[SpringHollow]

If you want to think a little out of the box:

I have a used Lincoln AC/DC Tombstone and bought a used ReadyWelder that can be run off batteries or the DC on the stick. The ReadyWelder gives you MIG capability for 3/4" metal with 3 batteries. For not a lot of money, this gives you a lot of capability (shop and portable MIG welding on thin to thick metal including aluminum, and Stick). Negatives are it is a spool gun so you are holding the spool in your hand and it only takes i believe 1 lb spools which cost more per pound). I have not used it yet but a lot of people love them.

DC stick for me is soooo much easier than AC. Had a hard time until i switched to DC.

Ken

 

[Reg]

If you want to think a little out of the box:

I have a used Lincoln AC/DC Tombstone and bought a used ReadyWelder that can be run off batteries or the DC on the stick. The ReadyWelder gives you MIG capability for 3/4" metal with 3 batteries. For not a lot of money, this gives you a lot of capability (shop and portable MIG welding on thin to thick metal including aluminum, and Stick). Negatives are it is a spool gun so you are holding the spool in your hand and it only takes i believe 1 lb spools which cost more per pound). I have not used it yet but a lot of people love them.

DC stick for me is soooo much easier than AC. Had a hard time until i switched to DC.

Ken

I agree, if you aren't in PRODUCTION work the ReadyWelder is a neat little tool with a lot of power for THICK metal.
Kinda hard to beat dollarwise as long as you are only doing occasional repairs or hobby work.

 

[Scotty370]

We (my son and I) have two Lincolns. His, 175 Mig Machine, and my recent purchase, a Lincoln 225-AC/DC tombstone. He can do beautiful work on lighter stock! No slag, etc, on 1/8" stock or less! I, on the other hand, can do 'crap' with it, but I probably haven't given myself a chance! I'm a new welder. He's taken lessons at the local vocational school. I love the new stick machine, welding 1/8"-1/4" & even 1/2" Plate with it in DC mode. Truth be told, I've never struck an arc on AC! My favorite? 3/16"-1/4" welding with 6013 1/4" rod! I've even made some welds I'd show someone! But what's that they say? Practice,.....Practice,........Practice...! ~Scotty

 

[mojoinco]

There are a couple of conditions that flux core works well. Outside in the wind. Once a few years ago I was talking to a couple of guys that weld for the custom operations of our local Cat dealer. They were welding a huge gear box back on (big broken welds). This was the kind o box that had bull gears that had teeth 3~4 " wide. They showed up with portable mig units (premium brand stuff) and I asked them what process they were going to use (I expected stick). They were indoors, but planned on using mig with flux core for double shielding protection. I hadn't thought about the penetration affect, but you do swap polarity when using flux core versus MIG process on the same machine. Just as in stick/tig welding, it all matters.

The largest of the 120 v mig machines will use the larger rolls of wire, which another person commented on the price. Big savings. For remote use, meaning long distances from the power source, there are small handheld guns (as mentioned for the portable mig machine) that are used so that the wire doesn't drag and bind in the cable (if it were making the long distance run). I think that is where the consumer type machines got there start using the 1 or 2# rolls (they were available and easy to build machines around as supplies were already in place).

The best part is having someone teach you that can focus on you. I remember taking an arc welding class and being most of the way through before the teacher understood I didn't know what I was supposed to be seeing (shape wise) in the weld puddle. It was all so clear after he showed me. The little things that seem so obvious....