Massey 135 cooling system

[Rambo33]

Gday everyone,
I have a Massey ferguson 20 (the industrial 135.)
I just put a new radiator on it and temperature gauge. Old radiator started to leak and old temp gauge was buggered.
I bleed the air out of the cooling system from where the temp gauge screws into the engine, everything worked fine. Next day I ran the tractor and coolant was streaming out of the overflow hose and temp gauge wasn't reading. I loosened the radiator cap, coolant stopped coming out of the hose and the temp gauge started to read. Redid this multiple times. Cap on tight, coolant overflows gauge doesn't work. Cap on loose, no overflow, gauge works.

The tractor was my grandfathers, then my dads, now I've got it. The old radiator cap never sealed properly, which makes me think this was an old problem that someone sorted out by taking the seal out of the old cap.

Appreciate any thoughts or input.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[JWR]

Hey Mate! Or whatever I am supposed to say to you... we have some very good friends here in Southern Maryland from down under. Cheers.
Your MF 20 is no doubt the victim of age mostly.

From your photo that sure look like a diesel -- is it?

I suggest that you:
1) Get a cooling system pressure gauge (around $50 on Amazon where I got one a couple of years ago, or borrow one.) They come with several adapters one of which will fit your radiator. If you have trouble fitting the radiator opening I'd be very surprised, but most tractor repair shops have these tools and could run the test for you or loan you an adapter.
2) Attach the pressure gauge and pump your cooling system pressure up to a nominal 14 or 15 psi using the pump that is part of the kit. Then watch it for immediate loss of pressure (meaning there is a leak.) If it appears stable go do something else for an hour or two. Then check to see if the pressure gauge has dropped or stayed steady.
3) A drop in pressure means there is a leak SOMEWHERE. if it indicates a leak inspect your radiator very closely, all the hoses, etc. If there is a leak and you cannot find where, then there is a nasty chance it is going out into your oil or exhaust via a blown head gasket.
4) Now getting closer to your problem, if there is nothing obvious yet, take off the radiator cap and mount the pressure rig and gauge on the radiator. But this time start the engine and watch the gauge. If it rises quickly you probably have a combustion gas leakage into the coolant (e.g. blown head gasket). If it rises, but take a long time, it is probably overheating and boiling inside. See what your temp gauge shows during all this.

My guess is that when you took off the cap and the gauge started to read temp there had been a gas bubble at the location of the gauge. It needs liquid on it to read accurately. Maybe if you are lucky you just failed to get all the air out??

Further observations: Without a working pressure cap (a good cap will cause pressure in the cooling system to reach roughly twice atmospheric pressure of 14 psi as heat builds up to normal operating condition) the coolant will reach the boiling point of water and turn to steam and blow things in every which direction, including out past the cap and out the overflow hose. Amounting to an "overheating" condition. Another thing to look at is -- run the engine with the radiator cap off for a few minutes while the engine warms up. Watch for bubbles and/or signs of oil in the coolant which is a tell-tale indicator of a blown head gasket. A related indicator is signs of water in the engine crankcase oil. These signs combined with use of the cooling system pressure gauge I described above should h3lp you make sure what the problem is.

Finally, a machine that old has many things that can be wrong such as: a plugged radiator core. If there is a shop nearby that rehabilitates radiators it would be a good idea to have that done ("core out the radiator" as it is called) regardless of what other problems there might be. If that is not feasible for you, at least use one of the commercial radiator cleanout chemicals and follow directions on the jug. Another possibility is a bad water pump too. Check the belt, look for water pump leaks at the peep hole underneath, etc. With the engine running you should be able to squeeze the lower radiator hose closed and open and see if you get good flow up to the radiator cap. AND of course check the thermostat (which is inexpensive and good to replace regardless of other issues.) Not much left.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[Rambo33]

Hi JWR,
Mate is spot on. It's about 113 Fahrenheit where i am at the moment, I bet your Aussie mates aren't missing that.

She's a diesel, the engine was rebuilt 1200 hours ago. She still does a bit of work on the vineyard, nothing to stressful though.
I can cross a few things off, I did an oil change on it today, no coolant in the oil.
The radiator is brand new, no leaks in that. No leaks from any of the hoses.
When I've started it, it needs to run for a few minutes before the gauge starts to move, so it isn't getting too hot. It was 113 here yesterday and I ran it for about 5 minutes with plenty of revs, Temp gauge probably went up about 3rd and there was no coolant coming out as I had loosened the cap.

I'll put a new thermostat in it while I've got it pulled apart and see how that goes.

 

[lpakiz]

Grab a fan blade and see if turning the fan attempts to turn over the engine.
Additionally, running the engine at wide open throttle should make the fan really buzz or roar.
I suspect perhaps the belt is not driving the fan (and water pump) at full speed.

 

[Dmacleo]

my first guess would be stuck t-stat as prior cooling system was not building pressure (leaks) so spring and pintle in it are prob frozen up as they most likely have not moved in a gawd awful amount of time.
but you are planning on replacing that so we'll see.

 

[Rambo33]

Thanks for the suggestions. Fan and water pump seem fine. I've ordered a new thermostat, so next week I'll get that and hopefully that sorts it out. I pulled the old one out, not sure how to tell if it's stuffed or not.