Making my own 20 KW Genset

BrokenTrack · Apr 17, 2020

dstig1 said:
Congratulations Rob, you are much awesomer than the OP. What's up with all the negativity? Somebody peee in your wheaties this AM? Brokentrack is doing a nice job pulling together a generator on a shoestring. Let's get back to that, OK?:confused2:

Thank you for your kind words...

I have long realized that is just the internet. If a person mentions doing something, then 19 out of 20 people will come up with a reason why it will not work, when they have not done anything themselves that is new and different. I call it paralysis by analysis.

The other part of that is, some people only tell you the good, and leave off the bad, but I am honest to a fault, so keep reading because...my kids do not listen to me, my wife has too large of a shoe collection, and my barn-find engine had a mouse nest in the #4 cylinder and did not "miraculously start with a fresh battery and a can of either". It is all the stuff that people leave out that makes you roll your eyes.

The real reason for this project started awhile ago when we had an 18 hour outage and I realized how much heat my Kubota tractor was putting out. I hate waste, so I thought, why not use that wasted heat to go into my radiant floor heating system? That cogenerational part is what makes this project unique. I just have to get a 42 year old engine that has been sitting for 32 years to run first!

Along the way there has been some real surprises; digging out the busted glass on the hour meter showed it had 2607 hours on it. And in opening it up, the engine looks like it is in mint shape. With that kind of information, a person can move forward with confidence.

BrokenTrack · Apr 17, 2020

I really had some set-backs too. Having to pull the head, really set me back on getting this engine started. And then when I went to pull the oil pan, there was not enough clearance without pulling the engine off the frame. I had no way lift the engine where it was at, so that meant sliding it frame and all, some 30 feet into the main barn. I then used my log loader to pull the engine out of the frame.

And if you are picturing that...you are indeed right, there was not much room to move the log loader AND lift the engine INSIDE the barn. But then I made a engine stand for it, and then cleaned up the sludge of the sump, and wiped down the lower half of the engine. So now the entire engine is clean, and free of sludge.

Then I fabricated new rear engine mounts, and welded tabs all over the frame so I can bolt this thing down to the floor once it is running.

I also painted the engine, oil pan, head, valve cover, dip stick, and oil fill cover, and finally started putting it back together,

But it is in really good shape now. From top to bottom it has go it all new seals and gaskets, except the injection pump, and the timing gear cover. But those are easy to change down the road, if I must.

Sawyer Rob · Apr 17, 2020

dstig1 said:
Congratulations Rob, you are much awesomer than the OP. What's up with all the negativity? Somebody peee in your wheaties this AM? Brokentrack is doing a nice job pulling together a generator on a shoestring. Let's get back to that, OK?:confused2:

With your post, I'd say it's YOUR Wheaties that got pizzed in... lol

SR

D2Cat · Apr 17, 2020

I understand excitement, apprehension, anticipation, joy, satisfaction and other emotions someone creating a one-of-a kind project goes through.

I bought a 1980 BobCat skid steer that had the same Perkins engine you're using. I replaced that engine with V2203 reefer unit. I had to build engine mount, adapter plate to connect/align the drive shaft to the hyd pump, and a hundred other challenges. If you don't enjoy that creative thinking process you just go buy something that does the job!

electrycmonk · Apr 17, 2020

Curious question about the Perkins stationary mounting. Have you devised/ come up with any "Vibration dampening" like old/worn/broken rubber mud flaps or sections of a tire tread for sitting the motor mounting assembly on or sometime like this?

BrokenTrack · Apr 17, 2020

electrycmonk said:
Curious question about the Perkins stationary mounting. Have you devised/ come up with any "Vibration dampening" like old/worn/broken rubber mud flaps or sections of a tire tread for sitting the motor mounting assembly on or sometime like this?

Yes...and I actually did both, as it has some homemade rubber mounts, and some factory ones.

I needed a rear motor mount because of the way the reefer unit was set up. The front of the engine has (3) rubber mounted motor mounts, but the back motor mounts was actually on the chiller unit. In that way it was set up like a tractor. The engine bolts directly to the chiller housing, just like how the engine/clutch/transmission act as the "frame" of a tractor. In this orginal configuration, there was engine mounts on the front of the engine, and on back of the chiller. So when I pulled off the chiller, I had to make engine mounts for the rear of the engine.

BUT I had the rubber mounts off the chiller that were not being used, so I reused those factory ones. I just used those where a new fabricated crossmember and the frame connect.

Where the engine mounts to the crossmember, I put in some homemade rubber grommets so that the engine does not rub on the engine mount itself.

But then the whole frame sits on rubber on top of the concrete floor of the generator shed. I welded on a ton of tabs so that I can bolt this whole unit down to the floor, rubber located between the frame and the floor. So in all, it sits on (3) sets of rubber mounts to reduce vibration.

I was going to just buy a rubber stall mat at Tractor Supply for $46 (4 x 6) but then I was at Home Depot and they had these really thick rubber boot mats on sale for $12 down to $6. So I bought (2) of them, and that is what the engine genset sits on top of the concrete.

pmsmechanic · Apr 17, 2020

Just another thought here. You seem to be a handy kind of guy so you probably know enough to put the battery on the rubber mat and not the frame of the gen set.

BrokenTrack · Apr 18, 2020

pmsmechanic said:
Just another thought here. You seem to be a handy kind of guy so you probably know enough to put the battery on the rubber mat and not the frame of the gen set.

I have them sitting on rubber mats on the floor now, and thought about building battery boxes for them, but then I thought, it would just make them harder to change out, and really there is no need for a dedicated spot on a genset.

I got the materials to make them, I just could not really come up with a reason to do so, unless you can think of one???

I am going with (2) batteries, just so there is plenty of cranking amps, but I think one would be plenty.

D2Cat · Apr 18, 2020

One battery will be plenty. If you use two you just increase initial cost and upkeep cost. One bad battery can bring down the good one, so you really need to replace them in pairs or keep real close watch on them.

electrycmonk · Apr 18, 2020

My Grampa always kept the battery on a plank of wood in the garage, never on the cement floor. This is in Michigan & he was a chemist for Kellogg's.... Great memories with the stuff he taught us. He would always charge a battery on a wood plank as a safe(thermal & electric) insulation & isolator. To this day I still try to do it that way. I do use an old rubber mudflap too.

I'm curious again. If you have the spare wood laying around would you consider a simple floor cradle? 2x4's about 36" long? Then 2 or 3 2x4's about 8-10" long for the ends and middle to screw the long boards into a cradle? And if you wanted to leftover rubber across the long 2x4's for the batteries to sit on?

Easily slide it on the floor for moving/servicing genset and/or the batteries? (Starts to snicker) or you could go overboard and use a few castor's And truly make it "very movable"....like the other threads about movable dollies. Butidigress

grsthegreat · Apr 18, 2020

I just use a few pieces of rubber stall mat under batteries. No cost option. These were pieces I cut to get mats to fit

BrokenTrack · Apr 19, 2020

I finally got a picture of this engine all painted up, and put back together. I got a few other things done on the unit, but it slowly is coming together. Of course Perkins, Ford and Case fans will all hate me. I could not find Perkins Blue, so I went with Ford Blue, and Case Red.

Like a bumbling fool, I could not get the threads to line up on the oil jumper going to the rocker arm, and bummed the threads up. Of course I did not find that out until I torqued down the rocker arm, and adjusted the vales, so I did that twice before I machined out the oil jumper line, and got the threads straightened out. That was a lesson in frustration.

Now it is down to punch-list time, and would be all together by now, but I am hampered by not having a driver's license (for medical reasons). That puts me at the mercy of my wife, going to town with her, and picking up what I can, when I am in a store that has what I need.

I thought about dry-firing this ole gal on starting fluid, but it has a CAV pump, and they can sustain damage without fuel as a lube for that particular injection pump. And this engine has been laid up dry for some 32 years. But that will be the hardest part of this whole build, fixing the fuel system. It was damaged when they took it off the reefer trailer, so I got to make everything new, and work.

electrycmonk · Apr 19, 2020

Paint choice? Let them whine, it's not their setup.
I like it. Efficient neat & organized. I am curious about that coiled wire/doing that stretched out some 4-5 ft? Loos like it's connected to the throttle control head assembly & over to the way? It likes like it's pulling double duty as a suspension wire for the control board wiring too?

That "dryer flexi ducting" hanging down? Purpose/plans for it on that punch list?

Don't I recall you referring to that battery charger/tender? It looks clamped to the control board??

Fascinating to see how you positioned stuff for your comfort of usage. I dig it. Hang in there, fruits of your labor are 'sooo close' to proper ripeness.

BrokenTrack · Apr 20, 2020

electrycmonk said:
I am curious about that coiled wire/doing that stretched out some 4-5 ft? Loos like it's connected to the throttle control head assembly & over to the way? It likes like it's pulling double duty as a suspension wire for the control board wiring too?

No, that is just a screen door spring, severely stretched so that it takes the pressure off the electrical lines. I used a spring so that as the engine vibrates, the spring will just react with it. I still have some wiring organizing to do. I do not like how the battery cables are flopping about, nor a few other wires, so I will eventually get that cleaned up, and tidy-looking.

electrycmonk said:
That "dryer flexi ducting" hanging down? Purpose/plans for it on that punch list?

That is my air intake from outside. You are right, it is on the punch list, and I need to buy some to make the connection. That is not a priority though because I will need it off for awhile. I imagine it is going to have to huff a lot of starting fluid as this engine has been laid up dry, and it is going to take a lot for the engine to fully pick up the fuel, and run. So I need access to the air intake. Equally, for safety sake, if this things picks up oil somewhere and takes off, I want to be able to snuff it out by chocking it from getting its air. I can stop it at the intake. But eventually I will need to bring complete the air intake hose from the air filter (outside) to the engine.

electrycmonk said:
Don't I recall you referring to that battery charger/tender? It looks clamped to the control board?

Nice observation...it is and it is not clamped there. I just did that to have a place to hang them out of the way. This charger is not great, it works, but only if the batteries are isolated, so I do not bother to leave the battery clamps hooked up. I just clipped them there because the old fuse holders made for quick clamping.

A side note to the batteries: I had two new batteries so I used them. I might remove one later, I am not sure, but I have an idea that on the first cold start, until this engine starts to pick up the fuel, I am going to have to crank this engine over a lot. I figured the more battery juice, the better. And my bulldozer (John Deere 350D) had the same sized engine, and had (2) batteries, so it cannot hurt.

D2Cat · Apr 20, 2020

I'd use the batteries to get it started the first time, even if you have to recharge the batteries before she goes. Starting fluid, if you get an overdose in one cyl. you can end up with major troubles. Take you time getting it to fire off, and save your engine.

BrokenTrack · Apr 20, 2020

Despite a miserable Monday on many fronts, I was able to call Central Georgia Generator and get a control box on the way.

I had some questions and ended up getting a call from their tech guy, who just happened to be the OWNER! A super great guy, who said he started his company for people like me, and answered a TON of questions that I had. It was everything from not using Fluke Meters to get frequency off generators (Stray voltage makes them inaccurate) to setting up the generator for 62 hertz so if there is droop everything works fine. What a super-nice guy. I will not share this obviously, but the guy gave me his personal cell phone in case I had any more questions...now that is SERVICE!

I wanted a control box was I was concerned my last generator run was not producing enough frequency; my clocks were slow. I did some research on that, and I will be snookered, despite it being 2020, they still use computer chips that derive their time from the grid...counting the frequency. I figured when they went to digital, that problem would have gone away. But no, not all auto-updated clocks had changed, as I thought grid-based time would be a thing of the past with them...nope which just goes to show, if a company can get something for free, they will, even if it is just free time! (LOL)

radios1 · Apr 20, 2020

BrokenTrack said:
Despite a miserable Monday on many fronts, I was able to call Central Georgia Generator and get a control box on the way.

I had some questions and ended up getting a call from their tech guy, who just happened to be the OWNER! A super great guy, who said he started his company for people like me, and answered a TON of questions that I had. It was everything from not using Fluke Meters to get frequency off generators (Stray voltage makes them inaccurate) to setting up the generator for 62 hertz so if there is droop everything works fine. What a super-nice guy. I will not share this obviously, but the guy gave me his personal cell phone in case I had any more questions...now that is SERVICE!

I wanted a control box was I was concerned my last generator run was not producing enough frequency; my clocks were slow. I did some research on that, and I will be snookered, despite it being 2020, they still use computer chips that derive their time from the grid...counting the frequency. I figured when they went to digital, that problem would have gone away. But no, not all auto-updated clocks had changed, as I thought grid-based time would be a thing of the past with them...nope which just goes to show, if a company can get something for free, they will, even if it is just free time! (LOL)

that's because the line frequency is monitored and very accurate, if they didn't use that, they'd have to use a quartz crystal, which will drift in frequency with temperature. they are not going to increase the cost by using a TCXO or OCXO circuit..

BrokenTrack · Apr 20, 2020

radios1 said:
that's because the line frequency is monitored and very accurate, if they didn't use that, they'd have to use a quartz crystal, which will drift in frequency with temperature. they are not going to increase the cost by using a TCXO or OCXO circuit..

Yeah, that was an interesting read.

The guy invents a clock based upon frequency so that the quality of grid power improves, but then because he does, the grid power improves to the point where it improves how we tell time.

Kind of circular, which is ironic because we are talking about electricity here, and if it was circular, well it would not push power down the line very well. So it is circular on many fronts!

BrokenTrack · Apr 29, 2020

I need some boys...or at least that is what my wife said today, and about 10 times at that! But atlas I am only blessed with estrogen here. A wife, (4) daughters, a female dog, a female bunny, a female cat, a female duck, heck even the goldfish is female.

But today I managed to get the main power run from the house to the generator shed. The last time I did this, I went underground, and ended up through the cable with my bulldozer. Whoops... So this time I went overhead. But I needed Katie to hold a strain on the wires as I connected the bare neutral to the porcelain insulators. I also installed a telephone pole midway across to keep some of the tension off the lines during ice storms and heavy snowfalls. She was a trooper, getting on the ladder to hold some bolts with a wrench while I got in the attic of the barn and cinched the nuts tight. She was a trooper because my ladder was too short, so I had it in the bucket of the tractor. "Stronger than the Rock of Jabratar", I said, but she did not believe me, but climbed up the ladder anyway. She also climbed up on the barn roof and tugged the entrance cable wires taunt.

She's a Proverbs 31 girl for sure...

Then I finished wiring in my main subpanel, complete with a welder outlet, but also wired in my generator control box. Fighting #2 wire was fun in those boxes! I also got everything grounded to physical earth.

It does not seem like much, but it is a big part of the entire job done. And I know, "No pictures: Never Happened, So, here are the pictures!