Mahindra vrs JD

cowboydoc · Jul 8, 2004

The one I priced for $16,170 was 4wd, ehydro, and not a stripped model.

 Its funny looking though these treads, it seems to be me that the Kioti/Mahindra only exist in areas where the big 3 dealers are pricing really high. 

I couldn't agree more with you Neil. Everytime I've looked into either Mahindra or Kioti they have always been about what it would cost to buy a deere. You are showing the same thing with Kubota.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 8, 2004

( ( Larry I think I do understand that your local dealers are much tougher to deal with. )

Bob ... this simply must segue into another thread. Its in Buying/Pricing and called "A New England Regional State of Mind".

)


I think you guys (your dealers) need an attitude adjustment up there!!!

A few years ago in Indiana one of our State Representatives proposed a new law that would ban private citizens from carrying a concealed weapon in places that serve alcohol. Not only was the bill soundly defeated, but the voters threw the guy out of office. I think that speaks to the state of mind of the people here! And that no-<nonesence (edited by moderator) attitude we have in the midwest seems to translate to how we do business too.

MessickFarmEqu · Jul 8, 2004

[quote

A few years ago in Indiana one of our State Representatives proposed a new law that would ban private citizens from carrying a concealed weapon in places that serve alcohol. Not only was the bill soundly defeated, but the voters threw the guy out of office. I think that speaks to the state of mind of the people here! And that no-(nonsence) attitude (edited by moderator) we have in the midwest seems to translate to how we do business too.
 )

Now from New England you would expect somthing like that, all the liberals up there dream up all kinds of crazy ideas.

Charlie_in_TX · Jul 8, 2004

OK Messick, I'll bite. How low can you go on a cast iron frame tractor with 1000lb FEL and 25+hp. Cowboy said he can get something close (light FEL and I think ladder frame) for $16100. I got my Mahindra 2615 for about $4000 less. Your brand dosn't make one? Can you sell me a 4210, or your brands equivialent for $12100 out the door? Around here that would only get you a 4010, a 17hp ladder frame with a 600lb FEL.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 8, 2004

Charlie, my question to you is why do you specify cast iron versus ladder frame? On a small (20 to 30hp) unit, the tasks the tractors are used for often favor the lighter ladder frame build. I will grant you that for plowing a field you would not want a ladder frame. I think weight is an asset if you are doing extensive FEL work or BH work (but by extensive I mean 50% of the total hours). But if you are doing things like mowing, or tilling, or moving mulch with your FEL, then there is no advantage to carrying around extra weight. In fact it becomes a detriment because it is much harder on the ground and unnecessary.

So I guess my point is, before you challenge any dealer, let's line up the tasks, and then play apples-to-apples to see who has the overall better machine for those tasks.

Personally, for the use I do on my property, I would strongly prefer ladder frame 95% of the time, and the other 5% of the time I would strongly prefer a bigger tractor all the way around. But MY situation may be different than yours. Again, it is a TASK issue.

Are you pulling large logs out of the woods for your timbermill? Get a big heavy machine. Are you plowing the fields? Get a big heavy machine. Are most of your hours used digging? Get a big heavy machine.

Are you mowing the lawn? Go light. Are you moving mulch with your FEL? Go light. Are you tilling the garden? Go light.

Are you scraping manure/straw out of a small barn? Using a PHD? Occasionally dragging a blade? Blowing snow? Then it really doesn't matter, but there is no advantage to either type of construction.

cowboydoc · Jul 8, 2004

First of all compare apples to apples Charlie. The 2615 is NOT equivalent to the 4210. The 4210 is 28hp gross and 23 hp pto. The 2615 is 26 hp and 21 hp pto. To get to the same tractor you need to jump up to a 2810 to get 28 hp. Your pump flow is 3.5 gallons/minute and the 4210 is 5.3 gallons/minute for steering and 11.9 to 7.8 for the rest of the hydraulics, a huge difference. That equates to faster recycle times, faster loader times, and faster three point hitch times which equals more work in less time. As far as lift capacity on paper the 2615 has 500 more lbs. but I'm told that is because they use a different angle to measure it. That's very common. You see the same thing on loaders. There are numerous other factors as well. OH AND FYI the 4210 weighs MORE than the 2615 by 300 lbs.!!!!

Charlie_in_TX · Jul 8, 2004

Bob, we have gone over this many times before. Lets do it again, the Mahindra is a heavier duty unit aimed at a different market. You make comments like ( On a small (20 to 30hp) unit, the tasks the tractors are used for often favor the lighter ladder frame build. I will grant you that for plowing a field you would not want a ladder frame. I think weight is an asset if you are doing extensive FEL work or BH work (but by extensive I mean 50% of the total hours) ) but then turn around and say they are aimed at the same market. We will have to agree to disagree. Ya can't have it both ways. Either they are constructed differently and aimed at different markets or they are aimed at the same market.

( So I guess my point is, before you challenge any dealer, let's line up the tasks, and then play apples-to-apples to see who has the overall better machine for those tasks.
) The fella that started this thread clearly stated what he needed it for. Cowboy brought up the 4210 and the fact he could get it for less than a Mahindra. In doing so he was agreeing with M (the fella I was replying to). I have called someone out who made a dumb statement and asked him to back it up.

( Personally, for the use I do on my property, I would strongly prefer ladder frame ) If you prefer a ladder frame, thats great. Just because thats the right choise for you doesn't mean it is the right choise for everyone.

I do agree about it being a tast issue. I also agree that a lighter hi hp tractor is better for mowing and a heavier stronger tractor is better for lifting and dirt work. I always have, that is why I put the Mahindra and Kioti 20-30hp tractors in one class and the 'American' in another.

LarryRB · Jul 8, 2004

It wouldn't phase me one bit to pick a 30 HP Mahindra.. Those that keep telling you "look how long the dealer will be there and parts availabilty" I feel are out of touch.. Mahindra is jumping the hoop of fire by building another distribution center in Georgia besides Texas. Parts are overnighted if not stocked by dealer.. If you really, really read the complaints, you will find very few to zero about a Mahindra tractor. You will find some, me included, that feel Mahindra's loaders built for them by KMW are way behind as far as lift capabilty, timing (up-down-curl) and they are of old boxy design.. This complaint is of an outsourced loader.. It is still not the machine itself.. I do wish Mahindra would get a different loader supplier. The loaders work and no problems here either.. They are slower than molasses and generally of bulky design.. Still, isn't the tractor and they do fine.. If money is key, I'd go for it.. It was for me and my needs and I went for the 4110 model.. Of course, like anything else, I would like some things changed.. I would like to see hydrostatic in 55 HP models, w/cab availability and the design to roll over or flip over a seat to operate backhoe rather than climbing on and off. Doesn't mean the mahindra is bad..

Charlie_in_TX · Jul 8, 2004

Cowboy, I am trying to compare apples to apples. Are you trying to say the 2 hp is a good reason to spend $4000 more? The 2810 is not exactly a jump, more of a very small step. As far a pump specs, I don't have the numbers in front of me but what I recall when I bought (in Feb) the cycle times of the of the Mahindra were very close to the same as the JD and the Mahindra could do it with more weight. The FEL specs were all listed at the same place (at the pivot pins). The 3 point is a different mater, the JD was 24in out, the Mahindra was at the lift arms. Funny I haven't had any problem picking up a load on the 3 point. Had the front end off the ground once. It is sized just fine for a 3000lb tactor (with loader). You 'huge difference' seems quite small in the real world. And the 4210 weights 300lbs more, is that were the rest of the $4000 comes from? Lets see, that $1500 difference per hp and $3.33 per pound. Seems like a value laden choise to buy the 2615 over the 4210.

But thats not what you said Cowboy, you said you can buy a JD cheaper than my Mahindra. Proove it. So far you have a long way to go.

On a last note. You come in here, the Mahindra forum, and run down a brand you have never owned and expect it to be blown off. BS. Why don't you go back to the JD forum were someone may value your opinion. Here you are nothing but a blowhard with never a good word to say.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 8, 2004

I am not trying to have it both ways, I am trying to be objective.

I will admit to knowing only what I see on the Mahindra website about the Mahindra machines, but it seems to me that Mahindra & Kioti, at least for the Kioti CK line up, and the Mahindra HST models, seem to be aimed at the "estate" type users, those are basically the same people that would buy a smaller "Boomer" from NH, a smaller 4x1x from Deere, or a Kubota B2410, B2910 type machine.

Now for the landscaper type market, I see a lot of the Deere 790, TC30, Kubota B7800 type units out there. Those I would presume would be put up against the LK Kioti or the 2310/2810 etc Mahindras?

As far as Cowboydoc's comparison, it seems pretty reasonable. And I don't always agree with him, especially his total loyalty only to that one brand.

SteveH_CT · Jul 8, 2004

I'm putting networks in those two prison's - so I'll be out there more frequently in the near future. We'll have to hook up at some local greasy spoon - hopeully you guys know the good places. I found a local bagel shop out there that is already on my "must stop at" list /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

FLDave · Jul 8, 2004

Why call this thread "Mahindra vs. JD" if you don't want the opinions of JD owners?

If you want just Mahindra owners opinions how will you ever know how they compare to JD?

I just feel that name calling is uncalled for in these discussions.

My dad used to always say "fight nicely kids." /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

DK35vince · Jul 8, 2004

( Everytime I've looked into either Mahindra or Kioti they have always been about what it would cost to buy a deere. )

It must depend on area.
Because around here there are thousands $ differance in price.

dieselsmoke1 · Jul 8, 2004

I suspect that's correct, as when I priced a comparable green piece to the one I bought the number I got was pretty doggone close to $20k.

I currently own a JD "M" circa 1953 with a full suite of attachments. I prize it highly as it ended my tour of walking behind behide "Maude" and "Belle" about 45 years ago.. I've nothing but the highest regards for green. Doesn't mean I'm blind to all others colors when shopping though.

cowboydoc · Jul 8, 2004

especially his total loyalty only to that one brand.



Bob I'm not totally loyal one bit. If I found another company that put out as good of equipment for the prices I buy it at and then back it up with service that is above and beyond I would switch in a heartbeat.

When I first got back into farming/ranching big time again I looked at everything. If I had found a better deal for the dollar I would have done it.

Charlie the only reason I got into this thread was because it said Mahindra vs. JD. I would think if this guy wanted a good comparison he would want to hear from both camps.

MessickFarmEqu · Jul 9, 2004

I just want to quickly point out that if you want Weight and FEL capacity, go by a ZETOR! They out weight just about every tractor out there.

I pointed this out in another thread, but I'll restate it again. The tier 2 and 3 brands may very well be good cost effective options in parts of the country where the Tier 1 brands are priced too high. Case in point, the Zetor national distribution center is about 20 miles away from me but there are no dealers around here because the Tier 1 brands are so competitive. In our market your not going to save a dime with a lesser brand. The few dollars that you might save up front will quickly be lost in resale value, lesser financing, parts support and implement availablity problems. Now before you all start seeing red and say you never have those problems just let me say that I reconize that. However as a dealer I get regular phone calls from people who do, it does happen. Just this week I had another guy loosing his shirt on a Mahindra on resale because he needed a bigger tractor, and another guy with an Iseki who could not find an FEL for the life of him. Add all this up and a competitively priced Tier 1 tractor is going to be the best value. Now if you can only get somthing thats being sold at list price, then we have a different story.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 9, 2004

cowboydoc, I stand corrected.

However, to some of us, some of your posts are very one sided, I will say, that in this thread, I do think you were very objective about the capabilities of comparable JD equipment. In other threads, perhaps not so objective, or at least they don't seem objective. And I think that is a fair statement.

DAP · Jul 9, 2004

( Now for the landscaper type market, I see a lot of the Deere 790, TC30, Kubota B7800 type units out there. Those I would presume would be put up against the LK Kioti or the 2310/2810 etc Mahindras?
)

Bob ... as is usually the case, a direct apples to apples is NEVER really possible. A comarison between Kubota and Mahindra is yet another example. The products DO however line up close enough for sensible comparison. That being said ...

The best comparisons:
Kubota B7800 HST or TC 30 = Mahindra 2615 HST or 3015 HST Note that the Mahindra's mentioned above are NOT economy versions of other models.

Deere 790 doesn't come in HST does it? Therefore the JD 790 and the Mahindra 2610 might be the best comparison. Note an inherent confusion in the Mahindra line, namely, the 2810. This machine, with available HST is really a Kubota 3010/3130 class as far as chassis size and weight go.

Also know that for whatever it's worth, the Mahindra is Tier 2 in the USA. It's Tier 1 in Europe and Asia as they have been building construction equipment for over 60 years. Interestingly, the were also awarded the US gov. contract during WWII to build the Willy's Jeeps and other military vehicles. Their utility class 2wd ag machines are extraordinarily popular in other global markets (throwback appearances notwithstanding).

cowboydoc · Jul 9, 2004

Bob,

If you got the lowest price of any other tractor out there, Mahindra and Kioit included, got service above and beyond your expectations, had never been down even with a major problem for more than 4 hours, had phone calls returned within an hour or questions answered immediately, had your dealer arrange meetings with deere corporate for problems unresolved within a week, and treated you with the utmost respect would you not be pretty high on that company as well?? I am very picky and I'm probably the biggest miser you will ever meet. If I thought for one minute that another company could match what deere has done for me I would sell every green piece of equipment I had and buy it.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 9, 2004

Doug, I was trying to compare NON-HST base style machines to other NON-HST base style machines.

Regarding all the gobbly-gook about Willy's Jeeps, Mahindra being tier 1 in the world but tier 2 here, let me just add that John Deere, while growing internationally, is pretty much tier 2 in South America, China and numerous other parts of the globe. I guess what I am saying is I don't give a rat's pitootie about somewhere else, I care about here, because here is what our reality is with regards to parts, service, models, etc.

Let me put it another way. Alfa-Romeo makes a few great sports cars, they are tier 1 in the sporty compact market in much of the globe. Can't even get them here today. So what good is it to me that all over the EU they are a hot ticket to a fun & fast ride?

What someone (Mahindra) does somewhere else doesn't mean that is how they are percieved here. And what someone does here (J.D.) does not mean that is how they are percieved elsewhere on the globe. How you "perform" for me here, today, is what I care about. And I think "perform" is defined as price, service, support, parts, and the actual raw performance of the machine itself in the real world. In some markets, some machines perform really well on that criteria, in other markets they don't.