Mahindra vrs JD

[shamban]

This thread has been incredibly informative.

I want a machine for the long haul (at least 10 years), so I am not to worried about resale. But that also means it is important that we get a machine that will meet ALL our long term needs. We bought 25 acres (5 acres of woods) of unimproved farm land. Our plan is to build a house, barn, guest house, clear trails through the woods, 2 ponds, install lots of fencing, raise animals (possible Alpacas or sheep), and small (maybe 5 acres) of organic crops.

WHEW! That wore me out just typing it! Anyway, resale value will only come into play if we end up with something that just cannot get the job done.

Joey

 

[RanchMan]

Shamban -

<font color="blue">it is important that we get a machine that will meet ALL our long term needs.

Our plan is to build a house, barn, guest house, clear trails through the woods, 2 ponds, install lots of fencing,</font>

It comes up every so often here on TBN where someone says they wished they bought a bigger tractor. I've only heard one guy complain that he wished he bought a smaller one. Personally, I'd buy for the biggest "reasonable" task.

Lemme give an example of what I mean. I clear mesquite from parts of my property regularly, that is a "task," but based on the size of the trees and effort required to do so, it is not "reasonable" to clear it with a tractor. I use a dozer. Planting multi-acre fields? Yep, THAT's tractor work. Making a tank, unless it's REALLY small, that's dozer work. Clearing trails through the woods? I don't know - depends. You can certainly use a tractor to skid out logs, but again, like I said, for clearing mesquite, I use a dozer because if I cut every tree down with a chain saw that I needed to clear off my property, I'd never make any progress. If you're going to be planting/maintaining a 5 acre field, you're going to be needing a considerable tractor. Don't underestimate this task. Based on the size implements you'll want to effectively maintain your field, I think you should be looking for a bigger tractor. Not saying it can't be done, just that you'll probably be happier with a larger tractor and consequently larger implements.

I guess what I'm saying is that tractors are tools, but they are specialized and can't do everything, so finding a tractor that can complete all your tasks efficiently is going to be next to impossible because not all of them are "tractor" tasks. The other thing is based on what you want to use it for, it sounds like you're going to need a considerable machine, unless that is you wish to work it and yourself really hard. Hopefully some guys that plant similar size fields as you will pipe up here and tell you what they think on tractor sizing.

 

[jwcinpk]

I think most everyone wants a John Deere, it's kinda like a status symbol. Really that's all it is. Technology has come so far all tractors are good. Some have little ergonomic points or creature comforts that are worth the price to some. In my case I bought the Mahindra 6000 4x4 mainly because when I looked at the spec sheet it won in almost every category. That and it turned out that the dealer who I had always dealt with on other equipment just started selling new tractors, Mahindra. I wouldn't give too much worry to the dealer not being around for you. There are other dealers that sell and service Mahindra so if you bought one and the particular dealer you bought from wasn't still selling them there will be one a little further away or maybe a little closer that you can see. I think it boils down to price for most. For me I couldn't touch anything JD that would do what I wanted and had FEL and 4x4 for under 30k and I bought my Mahindra for around 22k. That's a lot of money. The only thing I can find wrong with Mahindra is that you can't get all those t shirts, signs, and other apparel with your tractor brand name on them. Or if you can I haven't been able to find them. I did get a pen with Mahindra on it from the dealer.
I've put almost 150 hrs of rough work on my Mahindra and I can't complain. Some folks think it's a bulldozer! Just wish they had a tractor with a cab. Check out the 4110 it will do all you are talking of.

 

[DAP]

Bob ... the point I'm trying to make is this. Your opinion is driven by your demographics. That's great but not everyone lives in your demographic.

My point and question restated is that you would be willing to pay AT or OVER LIST PRICE for a tractor etc. because of dealer proximity? If i've understood you correctly, your answer was yes.

That in fact is what my situation is. Those 'nearly' local choices or out and out far away become appealing when you see your BIL buy a B7800 in TX for $15k and your local guy won't give you the time of day for $18.7k. I know Ken Sweet is listening!

Know what I mean?

 

[SteveH_CT]

You've probably summed up a lot of the cliches we all hear very accurately. I own a Deere, and I bought it for exactly the reasons that you've stated... Dealer, and product suited me best. I have no knowledge of the Mahindra line - I didn't shop them when I was looking because the closest dealer was well over an hour away - too far for my comfort level. I'm sure they can crank out a quality machine, and I'm glad when folks get a machine they like. I have to add though that I know of a person who first tried to trade his Mahindra in ( /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, yes some people actually do trade them in) and he couldn't do it. The dealers wouldn't take it - I'll bet a lot of this would not be the case in areas where there are more Mahindra dealers... hopefully they will continue to grow - personally I like having several brands to choose from, and we all know competion is good for everyone.

Take Care,

 

[LarryRB]

I've had a Mahindra for 2 years, 4110 model.. One warranty claim and that was a thermostat 2 weeks ago. Dealer is 100 miles from me and he overnighted the new thermostat.. Over 200 hours and most using the backhoe a Bradco 511.. Todays tractors are all pretty good. I beleive in the demographics thing as ask any Deere dealer in New England area and no one else knows how to build a tractor period.. It's attitude to product and not true knowledge of other products.. I do know if the mahindra dealers obtain the same attitude as the deere dealers, then they might as well hang it up.. Some day, these area dealers will realize there are other fish in the sea, and slowly but surely, they are cutting their own throats and I don't feel for them either.. They have it coming..

 

[SteveH_CT]

Agreed - My own personal preference would be to have tractor super stores - plaza's where you could compare all the big players in one place. The tractor business as a whole operates differently than the auto business - and in some ways it's good, and in some ways it seems very insular. Just yesterday I found a MF dealer not all that far from my house - I wish I knew they were there - way back when I started shopping MF was my brand of choice. But here they were, out in the middle of nowhere, and I sure didn't know they existed until I drove by. I think I'll stop in sometime just to get a look at their machines.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My point and question restated is that you would be willing to pay AT or OVER LIST PRICE for a tractor etc. because of dealer proximity? If i've understood you correctly, your answer was yes? )</font>

Sorry Doug, but my answer did state <font color="red"> I have several local dealerships, I make them compete for my money, I do keep them honest with long distance pricing, and factor in delivery </font>

I would work hard to buy from the local guy who would be honest with his pricing. Further, I cited actual examples of how I saved money locally on follow up purchases over the long distance pricing. I think that many of us, in the internet age, tend to forget to negotiate. I think that sometimes it is worth sitting down and talking with your dealer. And when I bought my NH it was only because I couldn't get anywhere with my Kubota guy. But I look back and blame myself for that. I was dealing with a salesman and I actually have come to know the owner over the past 10 years so I should have bypassed the salesman when I hit a dead end. The owner of the Kubota store called me about 20 minutes after I placed my NH order. I told him the whole story about his sales rep, it is was long and there were several issues that ended up in the roadblock, but I now belive the owner would have come down on the price (about $1000 too high). In the end, I am happier with the NH than with the Kubota, so I have no regrets. And I got a price on the NH that is right at the prices quoted by the internet sellers. And the snowblower I got was a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Sweets charges, and my price included assembly, testing and delivery, Ken's price included assembly (and I presume testing) but not delivery; which is not to say there was a problem with his pricing, it was the 3rd lowest price I was quoted for the 60" Farm King unit. And the local guy blew away the internet sellers on the mower deck. And the local guy beat the internet sellers on the FEL.

Further, to address the point you made <font color="red"> Your opinion is driven by your demographics. That's great but not everyone lives in your demographic. </font> I would say that my income level is irrelevant to getting a competitive deal. I push my local guys hard, I want to buy local for all the advantages of the service and support they provide. I will, and have purchased implements from the internet sources, but only when the local guys won't enter the real world.

I think in the case of this thread, we have a guy who is looking for a Mahindra or a JD in a 30hp range. He stated <font color="red"> I have 2 dealers close </font> so we are talking about local relationships. Somehow, somewhere part of the thread spun off into local versus long distance. Regardless, I think that for the most part the advice given could probably have been much better.

Break it down. 30hp for 25 acres. Personally, I say 33 to 45hp, and that would depend on how much actual clearing he intends on doing. For mowing, I think we are talking about a dedicated mower for the yard areas and a large tractor for the work.

Or, looking at it DIFFERENTLY, maybe we talk about RENTING the big guns to knock out the trees, do the digging, deal with foundations, etc. and then look at a 24 to 30hp tractor to do the maintaining.

There are lots of different ways to look at this situation.

Mowing the lawn with a tractor big enough to dig a pond is going to end up with unsatisfactory results.

Buying a 30hp tractor is going to end up with long months of clearing the woods, building the foundations, etc. It is on the large size for a lawn mower, but it will give very nice results mowing if the landscaping is designed such that it doesn't require tight turns and hard corners.

I think there is a lot more to discuss before anyone even gets into what brand to buy. JMO.

 

[DAP]

Bob ... my apologies. I have muddied our sidebar. My point is that some people, especially here in the NE, do not have your stated luxury of locally competing dealers.

This is true in my case as well. The original poster in this thread may be in the same situation. I don't recall is locale while forming this post but ....

So, in summary, a lot of would be tractor owners are faced with paying up to 3500 MORE for the privilege of buying locally.

What I was getting at was what would you do (and subsequently your response to the original poster) should you find yourself in a position as stated I and many others find ourselves in.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Doug, no apology needed on this forum. however in response to your statement <font color="red"> a lot of would be tractor owners are faced with paying up to 3500 MORE for the privilege of buying locally. </font> You must understand, and I did imply, my local dealers started out high. I did say I kept them honest with the reality of the internet. I did say I pushed them hard in negotiations, but in the end, the local guy now doesn't need any coaxing for me to get the best prices. I beat him about the head one time with the wiffle ball bat and he remembers the beating, now when I call, he is almost always the lowest price guy right off the starting line. Perhaps you need to bring out the wiffle ball bat (NERF bats work pretty well too) and chat with your dealer.

I would venture to say that as the markets evolve, a lot of those dealers will come crashing down. The reality of a free market is that no-name brands of today become big-name brands of tomorrow when the big-names lose sight of what customers need. I do think that many local dealers, faced with the internet, will probably cave in on their pricing if confronted by a local buyer. The local dealer does not want to lose the sale, but obviously is only focused on the local competition. That dealer is not dealing with reality and when it is pointed out, that dealer must make a decision. My local dealers did that, one faced the internet prices head on. One hemmed and hawed and lost the sale, only to have the boss come back and indicate that he would have made the sale. And I very graphically pointed out, citing real examples, that the internet guys don't always have the best pricing to begin with.

However, going back to the original question posted, Mahindra verses JD, the post did not seem to have an issue with either dealer gouging him, he wanted to know about machine quality, capabilities and suggested a 30hp range machine for 25 acres and provided, in subsequent posts, some project lists. That is where I keep trying to focus my statements.

 

[LarryRB]

From Bob
" You must understand, and I did imply, my local dealers started out high. I did say I kept them honest with the reality of the internet. I did say I pushed them hard in negotiations, but in the end, the local guy now doesn't need any coaxing for me to get the best prices."

I think most of us do understand your points.. In our New England area, the dealers attitude is pay this price or walk.. If one starts negotiating, it becomes a lost cause and frustrating.. I had dealers after telling them, I looked at the internet, and they walked away.. I ended up buying a Mahindra (100 miles away but still in state) as they offered a 11 ft backhoe on a 40 HP machine.. this tractor didn't come cheap (in my eyes) however, it was thousands cheaper than any big 4, orange, orange, green and blue.. Since then, I have had big 4 dealers that offered reasonable pricing if I was willing to travel some. Sad that there is such disparity in pricing.. I still believe Kubota and Kioti made a fatal mistake by not allowing internet pricing.. At least lists prices as set by factory, should be out there. Here again, New England area, I've priced certain model Kubotas and Deere's with "lists" prices that are very radical between dealers some 40 miles apart.. Why is a machine (Kubota) 32000 at one and identical machine 49 miles away is 39000 and still lists price?

 

[LarryRB]

were you at Big Boys toys out in the farmers field?

 

[cowboydoc]

I always laugh at these figures. I could get a 4210 John Deere with FEL out the door for $16,170. That makes the JD the lowest price of all that you mentioned. You only see JD compared with their full retail price and always the discounted price of the others.

 

[DK35vince]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I always laugh at these figures. I could get a 4210 John Deere with FEL out the door for $16,170. That makes the JD the lowest price of all that you mentioned. You only see JD compared with their full retail price and always the discounted price of the others. )</font>

Where are you seeing the discounted price on the others ?
I just priced a Kioti CK 30 gear, ags, and loader for $14,700.
CK 30 hydro,ags and loader for $15,500.
It looked like all the prices mentioned were full retail to me!

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Larry I think I do understand that your local dealers are much tougher to deal with. However, if I were located where you are, the first thing I would do is mortgage my house and open up a Kioti or Mahindra dealership. It would be pretty easy to sell either of the brands at full dealer list and still dramatically undercut the Big 3 brands. And I am not trying to sound contrite with my response. So if I had my heart set on a JD/NH/Kubota, I guess I would simply go find another brand that would do the tasks I needed done, and I think Kioti & Mahindra might be the two top choices on my list. And I would do that because if I shipped a tractor in 1000 miles from somewhere and then needed a new "whachajgger" in a hurry because the tractor is stuck in the field after making a really bad sound, I would think that the dealer who lost the sale would probably take his sweet time coming out to see me and my problems and when/if he did, I'd end up paying for the difference in the tractor price for that repair.

But all that said, it has nothing to do with the questions asked in the initial post. What size tractor does he need to do a series of tasks, and is there a functional difference between the two brands to justify the price differential?

 

[dieselsmoke1]

What's the specs on the 28 hp 4210 mentioned in an earlier post? From the price I'd guess a 2wd with a manual tranny.

Let's think about this a minute....

I bought a 28 hp 2810 HST 4wd with belly pto, FEL, R4's, 3 year warranty, 3 year 0%, on the trailer for $15,500.

And maybe I could have gotten the stripped down green one described above for only $670 more if I was a repeat customer. Of course I would have had to give up about 1000 pounds in weight and about 20 % of my lift capacity and many of the Mahindra's options mentioned above,
but I'd have gotten used to it I guess.

Bottom line, I've put in 30 hours of close quarters loader work in the last 4 days and if I were to live the the tractor purchase day over again, I am absolutely sure I would make the same decision again.

Neither chose is wrong, just depends on what's important to you and your situation.

Good Luck.

 

[SteveH_CT]

Not sure - I didn't catch the name - I passed it as I was going from Brooklyn Prison over to Bergin prison out in Storrs. I believe I was on route 169 and they were on the right hand side. I also passed a Greyhound breeder out there - I think I need to pay them a visit as well.

 

[LarryRB]

Yep, that ws big boys toys.. You were only a few miles from Junkman/AndyMA and myself.. Should try to swing by sometime

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Its funny looking though these treads, it seems to be me that the Kioti/Mahindra only exist in areas where the big 3 dealers are pricing really high. In our area, Kubota sells for the the same or lower prices than what some other people are quoting for an off brand tractor. I have yet to see a dealer who has been successful with an off brand within 200 miles, likly because they aren't showing a substantial price difference.

 

[DAP]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Larry I think I do understand that your local dealers are much tougher to deal with. )</font>

Bob ... this simply must segue into another thread. Its in Buying/Pricing and called "A New England Regional State of Mind".