M59 Discussion Thread

   / M59 Discussion Thread #181  
Getting ready to do the 50hr service on mine.
Got my SUDT already, and filters on the way.
Question: What engine oil is best for the M59 ??

I don't know which is best, and frankly I'm beginning to wonder if Kubota does either. Their lubrication recommendations are a shambles. From the Kubota dealer I get maybeso/maybeno answers. The official Kubota publications waffle and even contradict themselves. BTW, When did you buy your SUDT? From what I'm told, the 2010 formulation is quite different from the 2011 type.

To be even more blunt, Kubota's recommendations for the front axle oil will convince anyone who understands lubrication theory that they are in the presence of someone who doesn't.

All of this makes me reluctant to use any of the branded Kubota oils.

On your specific engine oil question, the approach I use is to lean on my own meger knowledge of diesel technology and compare that with the various API CF-xx standards and decide. You can find them all online.

After doing exactly that, I found two oils which I like:
Shell Rotella T, SAE 15w-40 which is API CJ-4 rated.

Deere Plus-50, also a 15w-40 petroleum base type and rated for API service CI-4. That's what is in my M59 today.
Grrrr....glad I got that all that oily stuff off my chest :)
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #182  
I think rScotty is right about the confusion at Kubota and the weak documentation. I called Kubota last year and asked them what oil I could run and the response was basically run any quality oil you like. This was not an "official" answer, but shows you that there is a difference between what is in print (older info) and what is acceptable to them in practice.

Bear in mind, if you deviate from the printed specifications, you could have a warranty problem, although Kubota strikes me as reasonable in respect to these issues. In other words, I bet they would honor a warranty claim if you used a non-listed quality oil that exceeded the specifications they list. However, I could be wrong!

-mark
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #183  
...To be even more blunt, Kubota's recommendations for the front axle oil will convince anyone who understands lubrication theory that they are in the presence of someone who doesn't.

I was just thinking the same thing yesterday when attempting to change out the oil. 80 or 90 wt. gear oil is higher viscosity than SUDT isn't it? Why are two seemingly dissimilar oils "recommended" in the front axle? Which is best?

Can you mix them?
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #184  
I didn't even get half out before it stopped dripping out. Any harm in running it over-full?

OOps, but no harm done in the short term. Uh....Did you remove all three of the front axle drain plugs? There's one one drain for the main axle plus one each for each side bevel gear tower gear assembly. The system should have drained fine unless one or both of the tower gear assembly is vapor-locked for some odd reason. But vapor lock there is rare. The reason why it is rare nowdays is that designers have learned to make vent that area. Sometimes the outboard ball bearing on the axle where it enters the bevel tower gear assembly is unshielded type specifically to allow for venting between the three otherwise separated volumes. Othertimes, there is a connecting passage in the housing itself. The unshielded bearing solution is the more common one because it eliminates one potential lead. However they do it, some provision needs to be made for equalizing the pressures. I haven't taken an M59 front axle apart so don't know how Kubota did it on our tractors.

The rule of thumb for lube height on this type of splash lubricated front end is common sense: It needs to be high enough to keep everything splashed with oil, but not high as to block the air venting between the various internal plenums (chambers)....and especially not high enough to block the vent connection to the outside air.

I don't know where any of these items are located in the M59 front axle, but if it were me I'd start my design by defining a low/high lube oil height that always touched the main transverse front axle and never did entirely bury that axle in oil. Next I'd check that the proposed oil height was OK for venting and for lubing the various bearing surfaces at all angles of tractor lean. Then I'd look at temperature, types of friction surfaces, and finally at compatibility with the seal chemistry. I remember when hypoidal lubes first came out that the seal chemistry problem bit a lot of us in the butt.

OK, I just went out and checked the dip stick on mine and it looks like the Kubota designer chose the same oil depth that I would have.....so maybe the rest of his design philosophy is similar too. Afterall, it's a pretty common solution. This is gear and bearing engineering; not rocket science.

Anyway, that would mean that the front end oil level is important - although more for venting and sealing reasons than for friction reasons.

Bottom line is I would drain it down to the recommended level before the summer and hot operation..... and particularly before using it where the front wheels may be in deep water or in deep mud. The reason for that is "case panting". Snow is probably OK. So I wouldn't exactly go rushing out to do it...but I'd sure remember to do it.
no problems....rScotty
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #185  
I only removed the two plugs on either end by the wheels, and the fill plug. The manual doesn't reference a third drain plug. Do you know where it is?

-mark
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #186  
OK, so I ran the machine for about 20 minutes in 4WD to heat up the front axle oil and then drained the axle again. Drain plugs removed and fill port open. I let them drain for about 3 hours, then tipped the axle to each side for another 20 minutes or so. I'm pretty sure I got all of the oil out.

Here's the rub, it only took about 5.5 qts. to fill it....NOT 13.2 qts. referenced in the manual. Am I crazy that I can't get out all of the fluid or is the manual a misprint?

Anyone else change the oil out yet?

-Mark
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #187  
The bushings where the bucket curl cylinder connects to the quick attach plate.
Good news its only 16.00 a side so I am replacing both of them.

Click on little picture and arrow points to them.

View attachment 200685

Oh yeah, Chuck, I just checked my bushings and I have lots of play in them too! 400 hrs. Did you replace them yet?
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #188  
OK, so I ran the machine for about 20 minutes in 4WD to heat up the front axle oil and then drained the axle again. Drain plugs removed and fill port open. I let them drain for about 3 hours, then tipped the axle to each side for another 20 minutes or so. I'm pretty sure I got all of the oil out.

Here's the rub, it only took about 5.5 qts. to fill it....NOT 13.2 qts. referenced in the manual. Am I crazy that I can't get out all of the fluid or is the manual a misprint?

Anyone else change the oil out yet?

-Mark

Don't have a M59 but my M7040 takes about half the front axle fluid as the manual states. It seems like Kubota has added the gear cases (3.7 qts. each side) and the differential (5.8 qts.) together rather than treat it as one reservoir.

Why it would even be listed separately is a wonder. If you needed to drain one item you'd drain all three one would think. Odd.

Maybe it is listed that way in case one gear case needed work and only that one side needed fresh oil. I'd flush everything but that's me.
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #189  
Hi folks,

I'm looking at purchasing a Root Grapple Attachment for my M59.

I'm considering the construction attachments COMPACT X-TREME DUTY Root Grapple and was wondering if anyone had opinions positive or negative?

I'll also need to install a 3rd function kit and was wondering whether this is a do-it-yourself job. I watched the calattachment's 3-part video on you-tube and it seems pretty straight forward [famous last words].

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Chris
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #190  
That looks like a nice unit. I don't like that the top of the grapple cylinders are unprotected. I would be better if they had some sort of metal shielding on them like many other brands. There is endless debate on these forums about which grapple is "best", and most people appear to be happy with what they have. Most of the debate centers around the best width and if you need one that is "heavy duty". Many here prefer narrow, lightweight grapples. I like the wider variety.

I've got no experience with installing the 3rd function valve.



Hi folks,

I'm looking at purchasing a Root Grapple Attachment for my M59.

I'm considering the construction attachments COMPACT X-TREME DUTY Root Grapple and was wondering if anyone had opinions positive or negative?

I'll also need to install a 3rd function kit and was wondering whether this is a do-it-yourself job. I watched the calattachment's 3-part video on you-tube and it seems pretty straight forward [famous last words].

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Chris
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #191  
I only removed the two plugs on either end by the wheels, and the fill plug. The manual doesn't reference a third drain plug. Do you know where it is?
-mark

My mistake Mark. I assumed that there was a drain under the center of the front axle as well as one at each wheel bevel drive, but today I got down in the snow and crawled under mine and no third drain plug!! So it only has them at each wheel bevel gear drive housing.

But I did notice that there were three fill plugs!! One for the main and one each on the upper part of each wheel's bevel drive. That makes sense - in fact that is the way that the inventor of this drive originally made them. The way it works is that oil normally goes in the axle fill hole and makes it's way to the bevel drive just like we thought before. And checking the exploded diagram shows that sure enough the oil gets to the bevel by passing through the unshielded outrigger bearing where the axle meets the bevel drive.

That's adequate to distribute that oil, but it is a very slow distribution process - slow for venting, for draining, and also for the oil to move around to its final level. With 90 wt it would be really slow. So to get the oil in place quicker they've added filler holes to the bevel gear casing itself. Mine has a splash of white paint on top of each of the additional filler bolt.....in fact all the all the fill and check points on the tractor seem to be marked that way.

I'd be surprised if that system could hold 13 quarts, but who knows? For me the the final word is going to be the dipstick in the front axle housing. That's because the dipstick has hashes just exactly where I think they ought to be: so that the final oil level will be about half way up the front axle shaft itself. It might take it a day or two to seep around and get level.

While you are there, check that rubber vent hose. It's close to the main pivot and goes up from there under the hood somewhere. Mine had the hose pushed down so hard where it made a turn to go up that it was crimped nearly shut. It needs to vent freely.
enjoy! rScotty
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #192  
I had an interesting question proposed to me yesterday. It goes like this:

"If not the M59, what tractor would you have bought and why?"

rScotty
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #193  
It would have been a L48 since it is the next best thing.
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #194  
Or perhaps the JD 110?
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread
  • Thread Starter
#195  
I had the same thing happen (fuse failure)... I'm reasonibly certain I bumped the pto lever when I turned the seat from the rear at the same time I stepped on the forward HST pedal. Not certain what the connection is but the same failure symptoms you described and solution.

The dealer assisted on a late Saturday afternoon with resolving the problem

Another failure today. I reached for the FEL joystick and the top of it snapped off in my hand. Part replaced without question but I am surprised by the ease of the failure. I have the fornt aux hyd.

Despite the issues it is an extraordinary machine. highly regarded by many that visit the farm

B&D

I think they might have a FEL joystick problem - can't recall whether I posted about it, but I snapped one too. Replaced under warranty. Was a while ago

If not the m59 it would have been the L5740 plus a hoe. I'm glad I bought the m59, the integrated hoe really is all that and a pile of chips.
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread
  • Thread Starter
#196  
oh a for grapples, search under the handle "Islandtractor". Hours of useful reading.
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #197  
Oh yeah, Chuck, I just checked my bushings and I have lots of play in them too! 400 hrs. Did you replace them yet?

Yes, seems when they replaced the FEL curl cylinder they forgot to install the bushing:confused:.. I Managed to install the new one in place without using a press, the other side had very little wear so I did not replace it.
M.59.FELbushing.JPEG
 
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   / M59 Discussion Thread #198  
I also was cowed by Kubota's fluid recomendations. It all sounded so critical in the manual, then I tried to get the products from my dealer and found that they dont even stock UDT or Super UDT. They had loaded it with Deere Plus-50 from the get-go. I figure if I have warantee issues as a result of their choice of fluid, its going to rain down on their heads, so I just stuck with the Deere product, I've never had any problems. Their line of reasoning was that the Deere product has a sucessful track record running in those huge combines that are way hotter and harsher than my M59, I bought that. Its still pretty expensive.

The manual also wasn't very clear that there were 3 hydro filters, and I swear that I couldnt find all the drains they described in the book.

I love my 59 Sons
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #199  
If I'm not mistaken, the M59 would have come from the factory with SUDT. Did you buy it new from a Kubota dealer?

I agree on the manual missing some info regarding the filter and drain plub locations. It's kind of annoying. I never found the ellusive 4th drain plug when doing the M59 Hydro-trans fluid change either. Has anyone else?

On the topic of SUDT, anyone get a batch of SUDT2 yet? I just bought about 5 jugs of the old SUDT, and the last one poured like WATER...it was marked SUDT, but it just seemed to have a different viscosity. I'm wondering if they started switching to SUDT2 in the old packaging to use it up.
 
   / M59 Discussion Thread #200  
Wait, isn't Deere Plus-50 engine oil? Why would they load that in the trans? Why wouldn't they use Deere Hy-Gard?
 

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