Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil

   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #21  
Remember…..the OP wants the cheapest chit. He doesn’t care, because he bought a cheap tired piece of chit…
You and I would like better than cheap….he DON’T CARE!!

Real good point, Robin. The problem with all my mechanical advice is that I am an old time mechanic and tend to be mechanically conservative. I expect our machinery to work hard & last a lifetime. Mostly it does. My machine tools are WWII, our family car is 30. Our Kubota is pushing 20. None of it needs any more than routime maintenance. But that's just me and my own bias. And as I look around and take an honest look at how other people use machines, I realize that you are probably more right than I am. So Ok.....

Lots of fluids will work for hydraulics. If all a person wants is for a fluid not to compress or evaporate, not corrosive, low viscosity with good temperature stability, low foaming, and high flash point....then a very lightweight multigrade motor oil is probably the cheapest fluid & will last a while - especially if the hydraulic fluid tends to get hot. Consider something like 5w-20 at Home Depot and be done.

It is only if this excavator has to last a long time, has HST, expensive hydraulic pumps, and lots of hydraulic seals that the cheapest fluid becomes the one that protects those parts just a little bit better regardless of the fluid cost.

As you point out, looking for the "best" isn't always the right way to go.
Thanks,
rScotty.
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #22  
Real good point, Robin. The problem with all my mechanical advice is that I am an old time mechanic and tend to be mechanically conservative. I expect our machinery to work hard & last a lifetime. Mostly it does. My machine tools are WWII, our family car is 30. Our Kubota is pushing 20. None of it needs any more than routime maintenance. But that's just me and my own bias. And as I look around and take an honest look at how other people use machines, I realize that you are probably more right than I am. So Ok.....

Lots of fluids will work for hydraulics. If all a person wants is for a fluid not to compress or evaporate, not corrosive, low viscosity with good temperature stability, low foaming, and high flash point....then a very lightweight multigrade motor oil is probably the cheapest fluid & will last a while - especially if the hydraulic fluid tends to get hot. Consider something like 5w-20 at Home Depot and be done.

It is only if this excavator has to last a long time, has HST, expensive hydraulic pumps, and lots of hydraulic seals that the cheapest fluid becomes the one that protects those parts just a little bit better regardless of the fluid cost.

As you point out, looking for the "best" isn't always the right way to go.
Thanks,
rScotty.
What, in your experience, defines the point where a fluid that meets or exceeds the specifications is inferior to another? Motor oil was used in equipment for a long time, however, not sure I would try that in a Hydrostatic setup.
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #23  
What, in your experience, defines the point where a fluid that meets or exceeds the specifications is inferior to another? Motor oil was used in equipment for a long time, however, not sure I would try that in a Hydrostatic setup.
Just a couple of things. We are assuming that both of these fluids - hydraulic and motor oils - are mineral oils and have the same base structure. And that is mostly true for everything except the exotics like brake fluid, aircraft fluids, and high vacuum fluids.
Anyway, for a long time, one of the main differences in common hydraulic oils vs motor oils was that hydraulic oils had a lower viscosity overall. Hydraulic fluids flowed better because they stayed low viscosity at low temperatures. Getting them to do that requires more refining and is part of why they cost so much.
Motor oils used viscosity improvers instead of expensive refining, and viscosity improvers could only do so much. Their temperature range was limited. The viscosity improvers were additives and they concentrated on improving the high temperature side, since motor oils had to withstand higher temperatures.... and that hurt their viscosity at low temps.
So the guy working his hydraulics on cheap motor oil would fill the hydraulics with motor oil and when he went to crank it up in severe cold the hydraulic pump would immediately flash a starve warning on the dash. Unless our guy was doing some sort of preheat like keeping it inside a shop, the cold motor oil was too thick for the suction side of the hydraulic pump - hence the dash light warning. JD commercial equipment ran into that when they tried using their motor oil in the hydraulics 20 years ago. But recently there have been some changes in the way that motor oils use viscosity improvers and especially now that synthetic motor oils are made for a reasonable price - causing motor oil to flow better at low temps.

So viscosity range in the cold was & is a known big difference between hydraulic and motor oil fluids that has been solved lately. Not perfectly, but it is a lot better now with the new super low viscosity synthetic motor oils.

The one spec we still don't know anything about between hydraulic fluids and motor oils is still a bother.
That remaining problem spec bothering us is the compatibility of the motor oil additives with the elastomers and some of the plated parts. This is mostly with shaft seals and hoses - that are used throughout the hydraulic system. "Compatibility" in elastomers means, "does the fluid or additives cause the seal and hose material to swell and soften?".

There are ISO, DIN, SAE, and ASTM tests for what is called "elastomer compatibility". They limit the swelling and softening of seals. My beef with the hydraulic fluid industry is that we have the tests and standands availiable, but the hydraulic fluids do not require those tests in their hydraulic fluid "standards". So we cannot know for sure. We know that motor oils have pretty good wide compatibility, but we just don't know about hydraulic oils. My suspicion is that the compatibility tests are expensive to do and to test for.....nd that cuts into profits. It also provides a entry point - a "low bar" - for cheap hydraulic fluids.

And so I finally get to the one reason why I spend the extra dollars for name brand hydraulic fluid. Not because I know it is any better, but I hope it is. I am basically gambling that the name brands do test for compatibility because they have more to lose if they get it wrong.

You may say my reasons are based is pretty poor logic and I would agree. Gambling is a pretty poor reason for me to be spending the extra on higher priced name brand hydaulic oils. But it is all I have to work with. YMMV....
rScotty
 
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   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #24  
You may say my reasons are based is pretty poor logic and I would agree. Gambling is a pretty poor reason for me to be spending the extra on higher priced name brand hydaulic oils. But it is all I have to work with

I like to use a name brand hydraulic fluid too and would have recommended it….but it’s not cheap. Like you, I also hope that the specs listed for my preferred brand are enough to protect my equipment better than simply using a hydraulic oil based on price alone.
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #25  
All I can say is, not all that long ago I needed to buy a quantity of hydraulic oil, so I compared brands of cheaper oils.

The three places I was comparing was Blains, Family Farm and Tractor supply, they were similarly priced for AW46 oil.

I spent some time on this and I came to the conclusion that Tractor Supply was NOT going in any of my tractors/equipment, I will not buy any hydraulic oil from them.

I wait until it's on sale and buy from Blains.

SR
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #26  
All I can say is, not all that long ago I needed to buy a quantity of hydraulic oil, so I compared brands of cheaper oils.

The three places I was comparing was Blains, Family Farm and Tractor supply, they were similarly priced for AW46 oil.

I spent some time on this and I came to the conclusion that Tractor Supply was NOT going in any of my tractors/equipment, I will not buy any hydraulic oil from them.

I wait until it's on sale and buy from Blains.

SR
Can you explain why? Just trying to learn something here. I have an older NH TC29 D that is due for a hydraulic fluid change come spring. Not sure what previous owner used. I know it squawks a lot when cold...
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #27  
Sounds like we attracted an AI Bot. I wonder if copying ChatGPS's drivel brought it here?
IT just emphasizes what poor amount of information is available online.... Don't have a stake in it one way or other, ...Its only really believable if it underscores what we already know..... But beware its the future.....
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #28  
Can you explain why? Just trying to learn something here. I have an older NH TC29 D that is due for a hydraulic fluid change come spring. Not sure what previous owner used. I know it squawks a lot when cold...
I was trying to remember details as I typed my last post, but cannot, except to say that TSC oil isn't rated as, as HD oil as the others for hydraulic use. SO, why buy lessor oil for the same price? It was in some technical paper that TSC put out.

I believe the Blains oil is Citgo oil, and to my way of thinking is the best oil for the same money.

I try to save money, but I will NOT buy an inferior product.

SR
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #29  
With no uniform standards for hydraulic oil it’s difficult to know how different brands stack up. I’m using a name brand synonymous with quality and not cheap. Using UOA I’ve already doubled the recommended oil change interval. That there cuts the price in half, but the oil is still in the machine so it should still work out cheaper yet…😉
 
   / Looking for inexpensive AW46 - Hydraulic Oil #30  
With no uniform standards for hydraulic oil it’s difficult to know how different brands stack up. I’m using a name brand synonymous with quality and not cheap. Using UOA I’ve already doubled the recommended oil change interval. That there cuts the price in half, but the oil is still in the machine so it should still work out cheaper yet…😉

I do the same. We use name brands, & regularly go double the recommended change interval. I judge a lot by how the fluid looks, feels, smells... As a matter of course I check the oil maybe monthly to make sure that it is clear amber with none of the cloudiness that means water condensation. And at the same time check that the hydraulic radiator is clean, no leaks anywhere.

I happen to believe that for long fluid life it makes sense not to work the fluid so hard that it gets overheated. That's personal preference. I've no hard evidence that fluid ages, breaks down, and uses up its additives....but it seems reasonable. Again, I'm just guessing based on other knowledge.

For commercial backhoe or HST work keeping a reasonable hydraulic fluid temperature would be hard to manage. For myself as a homeowner & tractoring for fun it's just the way we work.

rScotty
 
 
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