Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[ovrszd]

Richard, I have a Ford 917 too with the rough cut knives/blades and a gear driven tractor a IH 424 similar to your 3910 in size maybe a bit less HP. I like my 917 it is not the greatest thing ever invented.

I have found that if the grass is tall I have issue with not being able to go slow enough too, but I think a hydro-static drive tractor would help in those cases.

I am also beginning to think that flail mowers take slightly more HP than a bush hog of the same size.

This post is as if I wrote it. It describes my feelings about a Flail exactly.

And yep, I'm familiar with the IH424 tractors. I'd say our gear speeds are very close.

 

[TSO]

It rotates the same direction as the tractor tires when cutting.

That's backwards...

 

[Thomabear]

That's backwards...

My mower can be set up for forward rotation or reverse. According to the manual rotation direction is dependent on the application. It came from the factory set up to run in reverse and I have no reason to change it since the cut quality is like that of a finish mower. I have put it through its paces cutting heavy brush and small to medium saplings but now it's used monthly as a finish mower taking 4-8" grass down to 1-1/2". This is part of a few acres that was planted this year so there are still bare spots filling in. No gouging at all and using factory scoop knives.

 

[leonz]

As TSO has mentioned you think its running backwards,its not doing that. The flail mower rotor
operates in a clockwise rotation when you are looking at the left hand side of the flail mower.

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The statement is true only when you have a "front mount set up flail mower" mounted on the front of a row crop
tractor that is operating a flail mower operated by flywheel mounted Power Take Off through the
flywheel driven drive train of "a" front mounted three point hitch system.
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Taking half cuts with a flail mower with a lower horsepower tractor is also a good practice.


I hope that you at least mount it on the Kubota just to satisfy my curiousity after you lower the rear roller.

As I mentioned a few post ago we used a three foot wide towed motorised flailmower with a narrow throat opening to knock down 12-15 foot golden rod and brush in old pasture so my mother could have a safe jogging path as the road we lived on was to dangerous to jog on with a narrow gravel shoulder. It took my dad a while to do but it was mowed down to the sod and made for a safe great jogging path for her.


We want you to succeed and only to succeed and have the use of a good mower for a long time.

 

[KenB2920]

Well, after replacing a bunch of blades and hangers, then reattaching the bearing with grade 5 bolts, back in business and cutting again. He grass is wet so I had to go slooooow but it still did the job.

 

[KenB2920]

This is the bearing of the Ford 907 before reattaching.

 

[ovrszd]

That's backwards...

Yeah. How would I know, I'm only the guy running it.

Sorry, couldn't help it. Love it when others know more than I about what I'm doing.

Trust me on this one. It definitely grabs cuttings and takes them into the cutter, rather than pushing them out the front.

 

[ovrszd]

As TSO has mentioned you think its running backwards,its not doing that. The flail mower rotor
operates in a clockwise rotation when you are looking at the left hand side of the flail mower.

============================================================
The statement is true only when you have a "front mount set up flail mower" mounted on the front of a row crop
tractor that is operating a flail mower operated by flywheel mounted Power Take Off through the
flywheel driven drive train of "a" front mounted three point hitch system.
============================================================
============================================================

Taking half cuts with a flail mower with a lower horsepower tractor is also a good practice.


I hope that you at least mount it on the Kubota just to satisfy my curiousity after you lower the rear roller.

As I mentioned a few post ago we used a three foot wide towed motorised flailmower with a narrow throat opening to knock down 12-15 foot golden rod and brush in old pasture so my mother could have a safe jogging path as the road we lived on was to dangerous to jog on with a narrow gravel shoulder. It took my dad a while to do but it was mowed down to the sod and made for a safe great jogging path for her.


We want you to succeed and only to succeed and have the use of a good mower for a long time.

I'm always open to suggestions.

I've replaced some bearings, adjusted the belt, added new blades. I'm pretty sure it turns the same direction as the tractor tires when cutting.

But I will check it tomorrow when I'm back at the farm. I checked this out really carefully when installing new blades....

But like I said above, what do I know???

I'm one of the few people in this thread that doesn't claim the Flail Mower to be a God Send.

 

[TSO]

Yeah. How would I know, I'm only the guy running it.

Sorry, couldn't help it. Love it when others know more than I about what I'm doing.

Trust me on this one. It definitely grabs cuttings and takes them into the cutter, rather than pushing them out the front.

If it's spinning the same direction as your tires, then I would suspect you would have to drive extremely slow to get a good cut. I don't think the flails spin fast enough to be effective that way.

Mine spin "forward-up" ... Which makes way more sense. To be honest, I didn't even know they made one that would spin "forward-down". Maybe yours has a reverse gearbox or something.

 

[IslandTractor]

But like I said above, what do I know??? I'm one of the few people in this thread that doesn't claim the Flail Mower to be a God Send.

You are also one of the few people who hasn't figured out how to set up his mower yet.

Remember, it's always the equipment's fault.

 

[leonz]

Yeah. How would I know, I'm only the guy running it.

Sorry, couldn't help it. Love it when others know more than I about what I'm doing.

Trust me on this one. It definitely grabs cuttings and takes them into the cutter, rather than pushing them out the front.

==============================================================================

If the power take off direction is correct, the side slicer knives will lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor in a clockwise rotation they would not be pushed out the front of the mower where the grass and brush enters the mower to be verticut.

What you are describing is when the flail mower rotor is flooded with brush and grass clippings; this is overcome by the European manufacturers of some flailmowers,Maschio of Italy, is one family owned firm that designs a flail mower with a trash door that can be left open(Land Pride flail mowers) while cutting in heavy brush conditions with a small HP flailmower. The old mottt flailmowers had this as an option as well.

if you have some flourescent tape you could put a narrow strip on the left side stub shaft and a piece of tape on the rear side of that shaft(closest to the rear roller) and then simply engage the Power take off at idle and the short piece of fluorecent tape will always spin clockwise to meet the tape attached to the flail mowers side weldment next to the rear roller

Do you use the tractor with other PTO operated implements that require left hand rotation at the stub shaft to work properly?

The reason I ask is simply that grey market tractors(not saying yours is one, mind you) have a power take off rotation that is opposite ours being right hand and require a reversing gearbox off the PTO stub shaft.

 

[ovrszd]

You are also one of the few people who hasn't figured out how to set up his mower yet.

Remember, it's always the equipment's fault.

You were doing so good. Then you had to also be a SA.

My drum turns the same direction as the tractor tires. Confirmed that.

So I guess Ford screwed up and built it wrong.......

I never blame the equipment for operator errors, so it's not always the equipment's fault.

So, let's go over this with a fine toothed comb as my Grandpa would say.

Set the roller at the desired height.

Adjust the top link until the cutter is running "level".

Set the tractor rpms at the designated 540 PTO rpm speed.

Select the correct ground speed to get a good cut.

Did I miss anything???

If not, then I declare my ground speed is much slower than others if cutting anything taller than 8".

That's gotta be equipment fault right???

 

[ovrszd]

==============================================================================

If the power take off direction is correct, the side slicer knives will lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor in a clockwise rotation they would not be pushed out the front of the mower where the grass and brush enters the mower to be verticut.

What you are describing is when the flail mower rotor is flooded with brush and grass clippings; this is overcome by the European manufacturers of some flailmowers,Maschio of Italy, is one family owned firm that designs a flail mower with a trash door that can be left open(Land Pride flail mowers) while cutting in heavy brush conditions with a small HP flailmower. The old mottt flailmowers had this as an option as well.

if you have some flourescent tape you could put a narrow strip on the left side stub shaft and a piece of tape on the rear side of that shaft(closest to the rear roller) and then simply engage the Power take off at idle and the short piece of fluorecent tape will always spin clockwise to meet the tape attached to the flail mowers side weldment next to the rear roller

Do you use the tractor with other PTO operated implements that require left hand rotation at the stub shaft to work properly?

The reason I ask is simply that grey market tractors(not saying yours is one, mind you) have a power take off rotation that is opposite ours being right hand and require a reversing gearbox off the PTO stub shaft.

You my friend, need to learn to simplify. You also need to forget clockwise/counterclockwise.

I don't need tape to know what direction my drum turns.

 

[hunt4570]

I don't need tape to know what direction my drum turns.

A bit Dylanesqe maybe??

 

[leonz]

No, the flail mowers run in either counter clockwise rotation if they are front mounted
European models that can be changed by the end user or clockwise if they are rear mounted
and they have doing that for the last fifty years and the thirty plus years I have owned and
operated them.

If your flailmower ROTOR is rotating counterclockwise it is not mowing properly.
If so, somehow that flail mower was set up wrong with the wrong gearbox at
the factory where it was assembled OR the PTO stub on the tractor is
operating in the opposite direction.

Those are the only two available scenarios for this with the basic simple drive mechanisms
that these flail mowers have had for fifty plus years that does not seem possible.
Its either the tractor PTO or the gearbox is set up for reversing.

It would be different if the mowers grass inlet was taller and the side slicers
were more exposed to the brush and grass AS are front mounted flailmowers
that are operated by the connection to the crankshaft flywheel when using a
three point hitch mount for integral implements mounted in the front.


I only want to help you that is why I always, always, always help new owners of
flail mowers so they can have a forever mower and that is something I have always done here.

What type of gearbox does the flail mower have??

common right angle with a one to one ratio or the pancake type/flat with the spiral
bevel and bevel gear to shaft to the V belt pulley?

 

[Arc weld]

Flail mowers can run forward or reverse rotation just like 3 pt. rototillers. For golf course quality a fine cut reverse rotation gives the nicest cut. For general cutting or where there might be obstacles forward rotation makes it safer and still gives a pretty nice cut. There were sod farms that used Mott 3 gang Interstaters (hyd. side units in conjunction with an 88" 3 pt.). Mott used to put out a booklet called the art of flailing. It stated that flail mowers could be used for every application on a golf course except cutting greens. Before someone tries to be an expert on flails, maybe they should find a copy of this booklet or see if Alamo still has them. Mott invented the flail mower when working as an engineer at IHC. They weren't interested so he went off on his own and the rest is history. The Y type "Hammer Knife" self cleaning properties were tested in pig manure. It was the success of Mott that brought out so many other's. Many Mott patents have expired, that's why a lot of others now have the free swing Y knives for example. These knives use less power than an equivalent rotary mower. 1 piece knives like on a Ford use more power than Mott blades and can plug up. Mott is the Coca Cola of flail mowers. If there was no champion, there'd be no challengers. There's other good flails but you have to compare apples to apples. New Alamo's are not cheap but compare the construction and they are a lot more heavy duty compared to a lot of the others.

 

[ovrszd]

Flail mowers can run forward or reverse rotation just like 3 pt. rototillers. For golf course quality a fine cut reverse rotation gives the nicest cut. For general cutting or where there might be obstacles forward rotation makes it safer and still gives a pretty nice cut. There were sod farms that used Mott 3 gang Interstaters (hyd. side units in conjunction with an 88" 3 pt.). Mott used to put out a booklet called the art of flailing. It stated that flail mowers could be used for every application on a golf course except cutting greens. Before someone tries to be an expert on flails, maybe they should find a copy of this booklet or see if Alamo still has them. Mott invented the flail mower when working as an engineer at IHC. They weren't interested so he went off on his own and the rest is history. The Y type "Hammer Knife" self cleaning properties were tested in pig manure. It was the success of Mott that brought out so many other's. Many Mott patents have expired, that's why a lot of others now have the free swing Y knives for example. These knives use less power than an equivalent rotary mower. 1 piece knives like on a Ford use more power than Mott blades and can plug up. Mott is the Coca Cola of flail mowers. If there was no champion, there'd be no challengers. There's other good flails but you have to compare apples to apples. New Alamo's are not cheap but compare the construction and they are a lot more heavy duty compared to a lot of the others.

Finally someone that knows what they are talking about.

I totally agree in regards to the HP required and plugging effect of different knife types. I'm using the one piece (Flailmaster Rough Cut) blades. After cutting heavy Fescue grass in waterways my blades all have grass hanging on them or plug up as you described.

I've played with this cutter long enough to know I'm getting the best cut possible with the equipment I have. If I keep up, meaning cut the roadbanks every 2 weeks or so, it provides a good quality cut. If I try to cut tall thick grass the cut quality diminishes and the HP requirement sky rockets. So I'll use it where it works good and use the rotary cutter where it doesn't.

Thanks for the reply Arc weld.

 

[ovrszd]

A bit Dylanesqe maybe??

Possibly.

 

[leonz]

Many of us with many years of flail mower ownership and knowledge
regarding flail mowers their operation and knife type have tried to help you with this.

This specific flail mower rotors rotation being counterclockwise as you have stated
will affect the quality of cut with the one piece scoop blades which I have gone
into extensive detail on many occasions for owners of flail mowers with the scoop
one piece knives.

the scoop knives counterclockwise rotation has the cutting edge coming behind the material
the flail mower user wishes to cut down and the the material will flood the front of the flail
mowers shroud when the portion of it that is cut is carried over the flail mower rotor and
will not be recut.

scoop knives do not recut material they cut and carry it over the flail mower rotor and anything
left in its path is dimply carried over again and dropped on the ground.

If you visit the Hiniker home page and look at the flail shredders with the scoop knive option it explains it very well.

The number of times a plot or area is cut will also affect how the flail mower with the scoop
knive will cut the grass or brush and the quality of finish.






==============================================================================

Finally someone that knows what they are talking about.

I totally agree in regards to the HP required and plugging effect of different knife types. I'm using the one piece (Flailmaster Rough Cut) blades. After cutting heavy Fescue grass in waterways my blades all have grass hanging on them or plug up as you described.

I've played with this cutter long enough to know I'm getting the best cut possible with the equipment I have. If I keep up, meaning cut the roadbanks every 2 weeks or so, it provides a good quality cut. If I try to cut tall thick grass the cut quality diminishes and the HP requirement sky rockets. So I'll use it where it works good and use the rotary cutter where it doesn't.

Thanks for the reply Arc weld.

 

[ovrszd]

Many of us with many years of flail mower ownership and knowledge
regarding flail mowers their operation and knife type have tried to help you with this.

This specific flail mower rotors rotation being counterclockwise as you have stated
will affect the quality of cut with the one piece scoop blades which I have gone
into extensive detail on many occasions for owners of flail mowers with the scoop
one piece knives.

the scoop knives counterclockwise rotation has the cutting edge coming behind the material
the flail mower user wishes to cut down and the the material will flood the front of the flail
mowers shroud when the portion of it that is cut is carried over the flail mower rotor and
will not be recut.

scoop knives do not recut material they cut and carry it over the flail mower rotor and anything
left in its path is dimply carried over again and dropped on the ground.

If you visit the Hiniker home page and look at the flail shredders with the scoop knive option it explains it very well.

The number of times a plot or area is cut will also affect how the flail mower with the scoop
knive will cut the grass or brush and the quality of finish.






==============================================================================

But I thought you said my rotor was not rotating the same direction as the tractor tires?

I thought you also indicated that my problem might be my lack of knowledge in setting up the mower??

So what is your solution to my problem now??

Oh, and you might also acknowledge Arc weld's comments as having some merit. Or maybe not....