Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[jthibodeau89]

I have both a JD25A (with side slicers), and a JD390. Sold the BH 3210 once i mowed the field a couple times with the 390. Will keep the 5' rotary for backing into the tree line with the 4300HST, but all pasture, paddock, and field cutting will be done with the flails. I love the way they mulch the cuttings and lack of windrows and clumps as i attempt to reclaim neglected hillside pastures. Attached is a pic of my first pass with the 25A behind the JD 4300HST this past spring. The stalks left behind look rough, but keep in mind the first cut was 6-7' tall brambles and assorted brush. The second pic is the 2nd cutting a month later . After seeing this I decided to get the 8' wide JD390 for my 70hp AGCO Allis 5670. The 390 takes care of the brush up to 3" softwood trees. But i prefer not to use it to back into trees to protect the rear sheet metal. As we get the vineyard set up, I'm considering a 54"-60" flail and 17-21 hp tractor for maintenance.

 

[Ford850]

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I would like to know what this dealer told you.


leonz

First - He's sells a lot of Alamo flails of all models and has for many years. He uses them himself too. My challenge is not the area I plan to mow monthly or even a couple times per year. We both agreed the flail would be perfect for that grass, weed, and sapling area, eventually turning it into a much nicer grass cover in a couple years.
The areas that I mow every year or two caused him (and me) concern. He felt I will be flail mowing at 1/3 the speed compared to a rotary, and I will be left with a lot of unmowed crap that gets rolled flat with a flail. These areas have Big Blue Stem and Indian Grass that is up to 8' tall. There's also goldenrod, tall fescue, hundreds of hardwood tree saplings that grow back yearly over 8' tall, multiflora rose, canada thistle, etc. It's that large mixed area that he feels will slow me to a crawl, and will likely need double mowing. A rotary will allow me to clear those rough areas every year or two, and still do a fairly good job on the monthly mowed grass. As long as I choose a new rotary that can cut down to 2" or lower (leaving very short stumps) I should be good. I don't want to have 2 mowers so a rotary will work best for my situation.

 

[metalbender]

Mateng mower, forgot to grab a pic of it behind the tractor for regular mowing.

 

[metalbender]

The dealer is about 500 miles from me, OTS Auto Electric, Nisku Alberta, Canada. Shipping was cheap, $140.00

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

First - He's sells a lot of Alamo flails of all models and has for many years. He uses them himself too. My challenge is not the area I plan to mow monthly or even a couple times per year. We both agreed the flail would be perfect for that grass, weed, and sapling area, eventually turning it into a much nicer grass cover in a couple years.
The areas that I mow every year or two caused him (and me) concern. He felt I will be flail mowing at 1/3 the speed compared to a rotary, and I will be left with a lot of unmowed crap that gets rolled flat with a flail. These areas have Big Blue Stem and Indian Grass that is up to 8' tall. There's also goldenrod, tall fescue, hundreds of hardwood tree saplings that grow back yearly over 8' tall, multiflora rose, canada thistle, etc. It's that large mixed area that he feels will slow me to a crawl, and will likely need double mowing. A rotary will allow me to clear those rough areas every year or two, and still do a fairly good job on the monthly mowed grass. As long as I choose a new rotary that can cut down to 2" or lower (leaving very short stumps) I should be good. I don't want to have 2 mowers so a rotary will work best for my situation.

The dealer is right. The tall stuff will slow you to a crawl if you want it to look good in one pass. My personal opinion (not that you need to listen to me :confused2 is I would deal with the slow mow (or 2 pass mowing) every 1-2 years and have a better cut on the monthly mow. Actually, what I plan on doing on areas I don't want to mow on a regular basis is cut a path around anything I don't want to burn and burn the rest off. I need to do that this year because it's coming out of a 20 year CRP contract and I'm sick of the tall grass.

Man, I could really use a verge mower. Right now I'm just using a sickle bar to mow my ditch. But for the 2-3 times a year I mow, I can't justify the cost. I thought about making a mount for my flail to hang it off the side of my skidsteer to mow the ditch. Again, the sickle bar does just fine so the time and money can't be justified.

 

[AGTtactical]

Without upsetting the boat here , there a few limitations a flail mower has . As i make my living with these things i know what they are . A flail will not mow in reverse , not only are you traveling in the same direction as the flails but also the rear roller holds the material down while the cutters miss it . But because you have laid the material down going back , as you proceed forward the material is fed straight into the cutters by way of the stalks trying to stand back up and helped by suction as well as the fact they are aiming straight at the cutters . Flails cannot cut material well with the roller off the ground , the flails need to make contact with the material at it's base .

First post, but this is such utter bull that I couldn't stand it. The idea that backing affects the mowing ability in part because "you traveling in the same direction as the flails" utterly wrong... The flail tips are moving typically at 12,000 fpm. If backing at a fast 5 mph, you reduce the tip speed by only 440 fpm, or less than 3.6%. The mower is designed to work well at rotation speeds which vary much more than this, so backing has practically ZERO effect. The roller pushing over the grass has very little effect either...if you back, you usually go forward again. The flail will easy straighten the grass back up again.

 

[DavesTractor]

First post, but this is such utter bull that I couldn't stand it. The idea that backing affects the mowing ability in part because "you traveling in the same direction as the flails" utterly wrong... The flail tips are moving typically at 12,000 fpm. If backing at a fast 5 mph, you reduce the tip speed by only 440 fpm, or less than 3.6%. The mower is designed to work well at rotation speeds which vary much more than this, so backing has practically ZERO effect. The roller pushing over the grass has very little effect either...if you back, you usually go forward again. The flail will easy straighten the grass back up again.

AGTactical, that is kind of a harsh response to Eagleview. If your experience differs, so state. But to call it "such utter bull" seems a little out of line. We are pretty kind to each other around here.

I mow with a flail often, and it is an expensive quality made in California Vrisimo 10' model. I find it mows a lot better going forward, but if I need to back under or into something I will mow backing up, and then mow as I pull back forward. Never have just mowed backwards and then looked it over. I think it would depend a lot on the material cut. 6" grassy stuff would probably mow quite well in reverse. 4' tall woody stalked weeds, not so well as the roller would be holding a lot of material down. And I do find that the flail gives a much nicer cut when mowing things pretty short.

I can't argue with your blade tip speed analysis, that sound about right.

 

[CADplans]

Never have just mowed backwards and then looked it over.

I have a "dead end" apple orchard, I mow in reverse as I back into a fenced area,,,
frequently, it is tempting to steer to the side as I pull out,,, using this mower,

It is imperative that I go straight out mowing over the area that I backed over, to complete the cut.

If I leave the area that was only mowed in reverse, the resultant cut looks like the results of a dull bladed 6 foot rotary bush hog, operated at a tractor engine speed of idle.
The grass and weeds look slightly beat up,,, hardly cut at all.

Actually, to get the best cut, I raise the mower, back in, then lower the mower, and mow traveling forward.

This is the results when I cut typical neglected apple orchard, grass over a foot tall, some weeds.

 

[AGTtactical]

Yeah, you are probably right Daves. There is so much fake info these days that I guess I'm getting a little annoyed by such things in my "old" age. What really stuck me is the statement "As i make my living with these things i know what they are . A flail will not mow in reverse." Maybe that's not bull, but it sure is close! He didn't say "mows a little worse in reverse"... But maybe it was just an honest mistake.

 

[AGTtactical]

After 5 years with a 60" New Holland 918L, I have just bought and used a 72" LandPride (FM2172). I mow a 4-5 acre field with my Kubota B3300. The difference, as you might expect, is substantial. The duckfoot knives cut through tall, thck grass and twigs with ease, and the roller turns without digging into the ground. It's substantially heavier (it weights about 750 lbs.) than my New Holland, but the Kubota B3300, with the front end loader, handles the weight just fine. This is a first rate, well built machine, but then again it should be given the cost.
Sam

Nice to hear the extra money was worth it. I just saw Landpride's only line is the FM2500 series these days. Just priced a FM2560, and our local dealer wants $4300 without blades, $5200 with hammers.

 

[whirly]

.... Just priced a FM2560, and our local dealer wants $4300 without blades, ...

That's like selling a car without tires!!

 

[AGTtactical]

That's like selling a car without tires!!

Yes, very true!

 

[AGTtactical]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4865289

I don't have a Victory but I do have a Titan. I have seen the Victory up close and personal. Looks the same as the Titan except for the paint job. My Titan is a monster and cuts well behind my M-F 231S. No belt issues and I have only stalled the mower once when I ran into some fence wire on the ground. I have been to China many times and observed first hand their manufacturing techniques. My only concern for a Chinese flail mower would be the welds. My inspection indicates that the Titan and Victory are welded properly with good penetration and no slag. The Chinese machines seem to be a close copy of the popular brands. Bearings, fasteners and other wear items are standard off the shelf stuff available most anywhere. My 6 foot Titan weigh the same as popular non-Chinese brands, about 600lbs. I like the service and free shipping offered by Titan.
Flail Mowers - 3 Point Attachments

Two guys here have mentioned that the lube points were not standard and had to be replaced on their Titan, and that the roller lube points were almost on the ground, easily damaged, and broke off. What model do you have that doesn't have this grease zerk placement problem?

 

[AGTtactical]

As I mentioned earlier, I installed the new duckfoot blades on my Caroni TM1900 yesterday and had enough time before dark to try them out.

Everything seems to be balanced as I didn't have any mower vibration at all. I had weighed each blade at exactly 6 ounces each. These new blades have a different sound than the Y blades when the machine is running, more like a deep hum of a heavy duty vacuum cleaner. Raising the mower while cutting creates a cloud of clippings and dust from under the mower. The blades must create a lot of suction.

I have the cutting height set with the roller in the fourth hole from the bottom which makes it set pretty high which is the way I want it. I ran the tractor at a little less than 540 PTO speed and the tractor around 2200 rpm.

I tried it first by cutting pretty thick 8" grass around my tractor shed. The finish was very similar to my zero turn leaving a nice clean cut. I then mowed about another hour around the old home place in similar grass and it mowed just as well.

It's probably too early to tell but the new green Kevlar belts are holding up well so far.

Here's a couple before and after pics of the grass at my tractor shed.

Houser52, you sure you weren't a Marine Corps test pilot years ago? You write the most thorough, detailed, and informative troubleshooting posts I've ever seen about this subject. THANK YOU!

 

[metalbender]

Wow, pretty pricy on the mower. Mine came in at $3100 taxes and shipping in. Extra cost was installing a splittee valve on the rear to run the hydraulics, $ 400, did the work myself.

 

[audsp98]

Extra cost was installing a splittee valve on the rear to run the hydraulics, $ 400, did the work myself.

What did you get? I noticed that in your pictures and was curious what your setup was.

 

[leonz]

I guess you have not read the entire flail mower thread then?

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

Well, I finally did it. I ordered all new knives, links, and hangers for my Ford 917. Instead of the airplane wings that it came with, I decided (after much deliberation and research) to get the extreme duty side slicers from Flailmaster. I installed them over the weekend. The mower came with half the blades missing or broken. I took it for a quick spin and I like the results. It's still not at it's fullest potential as I am waiting for a local shop to make me a new roller and roller brackets. So I was mowing without a roller and it seemed to do decent. It would sure be nice to be able to set the mower down on it's roller to keep a height instead of waiting to hear it hit the dirt and adjust...

I cannot say enough good things about Flailmaster. Their online store is down and it is difficult for me to order over the phone with my work schedule. I emailed them explaining this, and Carrie gave me her cell phone number to complete my order after hours! That's good customer service. :thumbsup:

 

[metalbender]

A couple of picks of the paths cut through the "forest" as my grandkids call it. A small very overgrown and neglected orchard. Like the results from the flail mower better than the bush hog in this application. Mulching action of the flail leaves fairly fine residue, the hog left lots of branches. Will have to see if the flail will clean them up.

 

[leonz]

Hello metalbender,

Glad to see that you are happy with the first mowing in the "forest"

As long as you keep the mower at two inches in cutting height you will recut much more material.

Please forgive me as I do not remember this, but do you have the side slicers or scoop knives with your mower?

If you have the scoop knives they will not recut the material left on the ground.

The mowing job looks great though. will you be going through and mowing at right angles to reclaim the orchard rows?