Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Dan in MN]

I have a Mott F4 flail mower hooked up to a 1953 Ford NAA. When the engine is revved up to the 530 RPM range for the PTO, my ground speed really picks up and the mower ends of pushing down tall weeds/grass and gets clogged. I definitely need to sharpen the cutters, but wondered if others are mowing at a slower RPM. Or maybe I should only stick to short grass and avoid the overgrown meadows. I also need to replace the large gasket on the Warner gear box - someone suggested that NAPA might have one hanging around, otherwise I'll have to make my own.

Unfortunately, since your NAA must not have the Sherman 2 speed transmission option, you get what you get as far as gearing. You can try throttling down a bit to lower ground speed, but that will of course reduce mower rpm and cutting ability also... If it's a smaller patch of tall stuff you could clutch half way as you get there and roll into it, then use the clutch to move again, and again, and again... If you want to use this combo a lot you could look for a Sherman 2 speed to add on, but that's a big job..

edit: my mowing brain has been shut off for months...forgot to mention the standard reply of try taking half width passes or even a third through the tall stuff. You'll reduce the load on the motor which may help it power through if its bogging down, but if its a matter of the mower just not being able to process the grass that fast it won't help..

 

[whirly]

I have the same problem with my Fordson. If it's really tall grass AND a whole pasture, you can make 2 passes. First with the mower's roller about 6" off the ground. After that you can go back over with the roller at ground level.

If it's just a patch of tall grass, lift the roller just before and lower it just after and proceed to the next patch. You can then go back and knock down the patches to ground level after you finish the pasture.

It's a lot cheaper than the Sherman 2 speed and your left leg doesn't get cramps at night.

 

[lagreex1]

That's why I think the seller sold you the wrong offset kit which is not for your Caroni mower. I cannot believe Caroni need customer to drill holes on the mower to assemble the hydraulic offset kit, Caroni engineers won't be so stupid, I don't believe it.

Jack, I was definitely disappointed, but I can understand Caroni not wanting to pre-drill holes on all units when 95% of them will never see a shift kit.

I made some good headway last week.

Holes drilled.



Assembly finally mounted!


In my previous post I showed the huge washers to put on the inside of the mower. Two of them were red, and clipped. I ended up needing to clip two more of them to get everything to fit properly. On each of the two columns of holes, the bottom and second from the top holes required clipped washers.

Starboard side bolts.


Port side bolts. The horizontal bolt you can see at the top of the picture was not included in the kit. I added it since there was a hole there anyway. If you get side guards for the mower (like in this picture https://www.europages.com/filestore/opt/product/96/38/Trincia_e_b920e9cf.jpg ) one of them will bolt through that hole.


Strike plate attached. The Kit came with only the top and bottom left bolts. I added the bottom right since there was a hole there anyway.


The hydraulic cylinder was pre-assembled on the assembly, but there was a centimeter or two of slack in it. I'm assuming this was to allow for easier mounting. Once I had the assembly bolted onto the mower, I tightened this end to remove the slack on it.


Then I adjusted this end to get rid of the remaining slack.


Fully assembled with toplink tower.




I put one of the original 3pt lower mount points back on (left side of picture) to compare with the new hitch point. The new hitch point is around 4.5" forward of the old one.



The full album is here: Caroni Flail Mower with Hydraulic Side Shift kit - Album on Imgur

This week the plan is to get the PTO shaft cut and test her out!

 

[Ford850]

Lagreex1, These pictures and explanation will definitely help out others who get this kit. Nice work!

 

[def38]

Jack, I was definitely disappointed, but I can understand Caroni not wanting to pre-drill holes on all units when 95% of them will never see a shift kit.

I made some good headway last week.

Holes drilled.
View attachment 547686
View attachment 547687

Assembly finally mounted!
View attachment 547688

In my previous post I showed the huge washers to put on the inside of the mower. Two of them were red, and clipped. I ended up needing to clip two more of them to get everything to fit properly. On each of the two columns of holes, the bottom and second from the top holes required clipped washers.

Starboard side bolts.
View attachment 547689

Port side bolts. The horizontal bolt you can see at the top of the picture was not included in the kit. I added it since there was a hole there anyway. If you get side guards for the mower (like in this picture https://www.europages.com/filestore/opt/product/96/38/Trincia_e_b920e9cf.jpg ) one of them will bolt through that hole.
View attachment 547690

Strike plate attached. The Kit came with only the top and bottom left bolts. I added the bottom right since there was a hole there anyway.
View attachment 547691

The hydraulic cylinder was pre-assembled on the assembly, but there was a centimeter or two of slack in it. I'm assuming this was to allow for easier mounting. Once I had the assembly bolted onto the mower, I tightened this end to remove the slack on it.
View attachment 547692

Then I adjusted this end to get rid of the remaining slack.
View attachment 547693

Fully assembled with toplink tower.
View attachment 547694
View attachment 547695
View attachment 547696

I put one of the original 3pt lower mount points back on (left side of picture) to compare with the new hitch point. The new hitch point is around 4.5" forward of the old one.
View attachment 547697
View attachment 547698

The full album is here: Caroni Flail Mower with Hydraulic Side Shift kit - Album on Imgur

This week the plan is to get the PTO shaft cut and test her out!

I wonder it Ferrari offers a kit to build their car? And, while I applaud your success at installing the shift mechanism, it seems like it was rather difficult, poorly engineered and without the benefit of clear instructions...not something I would want to undertake. Good luck with it.

 

[RoyJackson]

I wonder it Ferrari offers a kit to build their car? And, while I applaud your success at installing the shift mechanism, it seems like it was rather difficult, poorly engineered and without the benefit of clear instructions...not something I would want to undertake. Good luck with it.

Although no excuse offered, my guess is Caroni most often pursues sales in Europe rather then the US. Their support in the US is quite limited...in fact, I don't think Caroni has any direct support in the US. Documentation is, apparently spotty as def38 has found out. If you look online for other European implement manfacturers, I think you'll find the same scenario.

def38 did a great job in installing the hydraulics kit!

 

[sagefruit]

Does anybody have any experience with Victories MFZ series flail? Any advantage to the unique hammer design, any sizes larger that 70" on the horizon

 

[def38]

Although no excuse offered, my guess is Caroni most often pursues sales in Europe rather then the US. Their support in the US is quite limited...in fact, I don't think Caroni has any direct support in the US. Documentation is, apparently spotty as def38 has found out. If you look online for other European implement manfacturers, I think you'll find the same scenario.

def38 did a great job in installing the hydraulics kit!

Roy, thanks for the flowers but, it was not I who installed the side shift kit but lagreex. My flail is without side shift, made in China and cost a lot less than an Italian model. Now if Sophia would come over and keep me company while I was mowing my property, I'd have one of those Italian jobs in a minute. "Ms. Loren, another cold beer please". Actually, she is a bit old for me...I'm only 79.

 

[def38]

Does anybody have any experience with Victories MFZ series flail? Any advantage to the unique hammer design, any sizes larger that 70" on the horizon

I have a Titan flail which looks identical to the Victory except for paint and the flails. My Titan has forged flails and a chain front debris guard. I have seen a smaller Victory up close and they look well built. I have not seen the side shift version you reference however the basic mower is identical with the needed added hydraulics for the 20" shift.

My Titan flail cuts 4 foot high grass with ease behind my M-F 231S with about 40 PTO HP and leaves a groomed look and well mulched clippings. It destroys branches, sticks and other yard junk without pause. The belt drive system works well with no belt issues. The gearbox is quiet and seems strong. It is likely that my Titan and the Victory are built in the same facility in China. Weldments are strong and with good penetration.

For the money and performance, I would buy the Titan again.

 

[ericm979]

The MFZ model is a different unit than the EF/EFG/EFGH ones that Titan and Victory sell. Looks sturdier. Maybe it's the photos but the hammer flails look much shorter than the EFG style to me.

 

[sagefruit]

The MFZ has a Comer gearbox, and the hammers are heavy 1500g. I wonder what the hp rating is on that gearbox.

 

[lagreex1]

Well I had my first mow with the Caroni and it did great. My toplink was just barely long enough, so I had it pulled in a bit to make sure it didn't break. I picked up a longer toplink today, so my next mow should be even better.

This is the position of the mower fully extended out.


Here's the position fully drawn in. With the side shift kit the mower is almost centered, although the cut is still offset to the right (due to the gear box on the left).


Other than putting the PTO guard on (oops), she's all done and ready for the season. My test mow went well, everything went fine.
A few notes to anyone looking into this setup:
1. Because of the positioning of the shift kit and my PTO, I CANNOT raise the mower all the way up without bending the PTO shaft. That's fine for me, but could be a problem for some. To fully raise the mower I'll need to unhook the PTO shaft.
2. Because of the extra length added by the shift kit, I did NOT need to shorten my PTO shaft.


I'm not used to having that much weight behind me, it'll take some getting used to. I have a 55 gallon drum of wiper fluid ready to fill the tires with, as soon as my buddy has time.

One question: For those with side shift mowers, do you grease the rails at all? There is a light amount of grease or film on them currently, but the manual doesn't say anything about keeping the rails lubricated.

 

[RoyJackson]

Well I had my first mow with the Caroni and it did great. My toplink was just barely long enough, so I had it pulled in a bit to make sure it didn't break. I picked up a longer toplink today, so my next mow should be even better.

Nice job!

 

[leonz]

Hello Lagreex1,


I want to welcome you as the newest member of the Flail Mower Nations from the great state of Indiana.

If both of your lower links can be extended I would definitely extend them as you will have a better balanced mower and mule.


Take your time when you begin mowing as you have a short implement mounted on the rear of the mule.
You have to remember that quick turns while driving at transport speeds are not a thing to do with a raised flail mower.

When you get to do a lot of mowing your going to have a lot of fine dust from mowing and the heat drying up the grass that sticks to the mower shroud and the rest of the parts.

The fine dust screen in front of the radiator(if it has one) may plug more often too so plan on using hot water to help wash the radiator out and flush the chaff and dust screen if it has one.

I always tell everyone that the tattle tale vacuum indicators on the air filters are not to be trusted as they can and will be affected by fine dust. I do not like dry paper air filters as I found that oil bath air cleaners are much more reliable as they have pre cleaner dust cups that remove the heavy dust from the air stream and that cannot plug.

Best thing to do is just wash it off with really hot water in a hand held lawn sprayer with filled with some Dawn Dish Soap when the dust gets to be noticeable as it will get into everything and the guide tubes for the rails. Washing under the mower shroud occasionally will help to dissolve the grass dust that will accumulate on everything and the bolt threads on the knife hangers.

Welcome to the Flail Mower Nations.


Happy mowing.






Happy mowing

 

[RoyJackson]

Hello Lagreex1,


You have to remember that quick turns while driving at transport speeds are not a thing to do with a raised flail mower.

That's applicable to most any implement...rotary cutters being the worst.

Good tips in the rest of the post!

 

[JD40MO77]

Got the flail out Friday and worked it a couple hours. Our spring green up is running late in southeast Missouri this year.
Anyone else have pics of their John Deere 25A or other green flail mowers?

 

[leonz]

We have a big herd of 25A pictures and the mules pulling them on the forum.

Happy mowing.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I just spent the better of 3 hours cutting out polyester bailing twine from my Caroni flail mower. In the past I had gotten barb wire and a old bed spring caught in the flail drum rotor but this was by far the hardest to clear. There was also some wire with the twine to make it difficult to cut the twine and the twine made it near impossible to get cutters on the wire. The worst problem however was the twine was pulled into the drum collar that protects the bearings, I had to remove the collar and dig out the stretched and partially melted twine that had gotten behind the collar and locked the rotor. I mowed this area last year, an area where the commercial hay balers don't cut, without incident. Apparently the commercial guys threw the remnants of a spool of twine on the ground and my flail mower found it.

My sympathies. I have found my flail mower to be the best tool on the box for finding half buried items in tall grass. So far I have found mesh fence wire, baling twine, and a 5/8" wire rope. It is truly amazing how fast a flail mower can wrap wire rope around the drum. It was a 100' laying on the ground, but I only wrapped about 20' before the belts slipped and my clutch application. It was only about a hour of cutting with an angle grinder to clean it out. I must have looked mighty impressive dragging the remaining 80' back to the house though.

While finishing up a new fence installation I noticed a little piece of 12.5 ga. high tensile wire, about a foot long, on the ground. Figuring it was just a short piece that I had dropped, I tried to pick it up to dispose of it. I turned out to be something left by the previous owner because as I pulled it up, I found one end was connected to the remains of a wire spool and the other end went under the fence I installed and paralleled it for about 500' becoming 2 strands of wire at about the 100' mark. It is on state hwy right of way, but I had started mowing it to keep the tall grass away from the electric fence and drawing current. Thank God I found it before my mower did,what a mess that would have made if I would have hooked that stuff with my old flail.

 

[leonz]

Hello Frank,

Sorry to hear about the fence wire mishap. I have always found garden hose snakes are the worst as they really bite back
and I have the bite marks to prove it.

Finding and removing extension cord snakes in winter is a really nasty job as they tend to gum you and bruise you quite a bit when unwrapping them from your snow blower, first they wrap them selves around the wrist and keep gumming you as you pull the them out from the single stage snow blower rotor.


How far are you from Skykomish if you do not mind me asking? I have been an amateur historian of the GN from 1888 to 1929 when the GN was running the line from Seattle to Skykomish to Wellington then Cacade Tunnel Station and then to Wenatchee.


:drink:

 

[lagreex1]

Leonz thanks for the warm welcome, and the tips.

Hello Lagreex1,
If both of your lower links can be extended I would definitely extend them as you will have a better balanced mower and mule.

My lower links don't extend out (I don't think so anyway...). I am about to extend my wheels out, which will be nice.