Backhoe Learning to use backhoe

[pitt_md]

I wanted to get the opinions of some of you who own/use backhoes a lot about some work I need to do. I need to trench in a water line to a new horse pasture I am putting in. The trench will be 4' deep and about 50 feet long. I also want to dig a trench to run electricity to the new pasture for an automatic watering system. This trench will be about 100' long and 18" deep.
The problem is that I have never operated a backhoe before and plan to rent one to do it myself. The rental/delivery for the backhoe for one day will be $400 - $500. Getting a excavator to come out and do the work will be around double the DIYS method. Can I as an able, well versed tractor operator expect to get this done in one day? There are no obstructions or obsticals in the path of these trenches. The soil is a sand clay mixture. At this point in time I do not know what size or power the rental unit will be.

All opinions welcome.

Thanks

 

[Egon]

Have you considered a trencher like a ditch witch? Might be a whole pile faster and cheaper.

 

[pitt_md]

In my situation I do not know how I could use a trencher. I built a new house last year and when I did I had the excavator bury a water line just beyond where the well is located. This water line stub is conected to a shut off valve in my basement. Unless I dig down by hand to find the buried line I need to connect to I don't know how I could use a trencher. My back goes out on a regular basis now that I am 50+. I don't mind hard work but don't need to be layed up for a another week trying to finish this project off before winter sets in.

 

[hr3]

I think your going to be pushing it to get it all done in one day.. I have a backhoe on my tractor and I know the first trench i did took a while.. Getting the bottom somewhat level laying the pipe/wire and then trying to back fill neatly.. A weekend would be better just incase...

Good luck and let us know how you make out,,,

 

[Richard]

Unfortunately, I think Egon is right (not to offend you Egon! )

A ditch witch type thing will make this job done in probably 90 minutes?

Now if we set that aside and ascertain that you PREFER to play on a backhoe.... then yes, I still think you can get this done in a day.

The first time I ever used a hoe, I rented a Kubota L-38. I was going to go to the back side of the farm and practice using it...then I stopped, slapped myself upside the head and said, why don't I simply go dig where I want to dig? After all.... if I screw it up, it's not like I'm not already TRYING to harm the ground!!

Second thought... if indeed, you WANT to play on a backhoe (and I use the word 'play' intentionally....cause it CAN be fun!!)

Anyways, if you want to do this on a backhoe, then I'd strongly suggest renting an industrial type machine if you can.

My dad asked me a couple of years ago, to spend the weekend in Lexington, SC to help him at his mother in laws house (my dad at age 75 had a mother in law)

He wanted a section of her dirt/sand yard dug up where a bunch of bush roots had been standing. I agreed. He asked what to rent? Since I have an industrial BH, I suggested he get one.

When I got there, I found a gas powered Terramite machine. He realized it wasn't the full size I was asking for. I got to work on the ground.

I worked this ground for two days digging up these roots and bushes and still, probably didn't get all done that I wanted to get done. The reach on this machine was maybe 9' (as contrasted with maybe 15' on my machine) the digging power of this machine was but a fraction of the power I have. The speed of the controls on this machine was a fraction of what I have. The final insult.... about 3/4 through the last (fortunately) day, one of the wobble sticks broke. Seems the wobble stick ...how to describe this... simply has a bolt that goes through it, holding it onto the valve underneith. I don't think I personally did all this damage but rather it finally gave way while I was using it. What happened is the bolt that holds the lever to the valve reamed out and stripped the threads in the valve body. This rendered the machine useless to me since I was using the hoe 99% of the time.

I'm convinced that had I had my much larger, heavier machine there I would have been able to do the entire job on the first day rather than work two full days and still not get it totally done (thanks in part to the breaking of the wobble stick). The wobble stick was simply more insult to me because it showed me these aren't built as heavy duty as an industrial machine.

I think Dad saved $200 though!!

I don't really know the number but for the aggrivation I had using this smaller machine, I would have paid the differrence myself to have used a more capable machine. Would have made my life a lot easier that day.

 

[pitt_md]

Where it might be fun to play on a backhoe I just want this blasted project done. I have spent my entire summer busting my butt building a horse shelter and fencing (don't even get me started on that!) that still is not done due to the bedrock I hit at the other end of the field.

Can a trenching device go down 4'? This is Minnesota ya know. If its not deep its junk.

The place I was planning on renting from had industrial class case machines. They recently sold both of there rental units which is why I do not know exactly what machine they will have for me.

 

[workinallthetime]

I would rent a small bobcat style excavator, you can move down the line much faster than you can with a tractor mounted hoe. Depending on the unit the boom is longer which gives you greater digging distance which equals less time spent moving the unit, and swival time is faster. Find out what they have for you and do a little research before you pick it up.

this is what im talking about and he is 6 years old

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQBuDwq0wr4

 

[backdoor]

Be sure to have the underground utilities marked. That's a free service around here. We call Miss Utility if there is any question at all about underground public utilities. Just a thought.

 

[wolc123]

Using a Case 580k or equivalent, as an experienced tractor operator with no hoe experience, figure on about an hour to get reasonably proficient with the machine (It aint as hard as it looks). Start out away from the buildings and keep other people away. The twin joystick controls on modern hoes are real easy to get the hang of. Using a 12" or 18" wide bucket, it should take you about 1.5 hours to dig your 50x4' trench and an hour for your 100x18" trench. I dont know how long your piping/etc will take. One day is way more than almost anyone would need for these simple tasks with an industrial machine like this and you should be able to have all the trenching done in under (4) hours including the learning. I cant imagine the ditcher being nearly as fun as the backhoe. I never like working near houses because of buried wires, pipelines etc, but it sounds like you dont have to worry about those. Good luck with the project. I spent a lot of hours on a 580C when I was young.

 

[johnnylight]

You mention 2 jobs the water and electric.
for both jobs if you rent you will find things don't work out, like the weather.
you know how it goes everything going smoothly then you have to stop for different reasons.

My suggestion is to take that rental money and put towards buying your own.
not rushing making mistakes because the rental is due back.
If you get one make sure it is frame mounted type for your tractor.

There's always work for a back hoe owning a home...

 

[harpoonalt]

I would rent a small bobcat style excavator, you can move down the line much faster than you can with a tractor mounted hoe. Depending on the unit the boom is longer which gives you greater digging distance which equals less time spent moving the unit, and swival time is faster. Find out what they have for you and do a little research before you pick it up.

this is what im talking about and he is 6 years old

YouTube - 6YR OLD OPERATOR EXCAVATOR 331E

I've used a tractor mounted backhoe and they can be a pain to do long trenches. Dig, get off, move the tractor, repeat until done. The style in the video works slick. Dig, move, dig, move. The time saved is huge. With the tractor, we finally had one of us run the backhoe and the other move the tractor. It's not hard to learn, but some people pick it up faster than others. You'll have a full day but it'll be a lot of fun. Let us know how it goes and as always......We love pictures!

 

[kennyd]

Since you already have a tractor/loader, I would suggest a mini-excavator. they rent for about $350 a day here. At my rental place...if you pick up after 12p on Saturday, you don't have to have it back till Monday morning before 9a for the 1 day rental price.. Like getting a extra 1/3 or 3/4 day for free

 

[newbury]

The rental/delivery for the backhoe for one day will be $400 - $500. Getting a excavator to come out and do the work will be around double the DIYS method.

You should plan on throwing away about a $1000 for this job. If the weather is good and nothing goes wrong you should be able to get it done in a day if your back doesn't give out moving pipe or whatever. Or you could go for the sure kill and hire someone.

Now if you put that $1K towards a BH for your beautiful tractor (if that's the tractor http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...pictures-you-your-tractor-15.html#post1747185 ) you then have a handy ballast and a BH to use any time. But then I'm biased, and backhoed.

 

[wedge40]

Not sure if things are the same in the great white north, but here we can get a one day rental buy having them drop the unit off Friday afternoon and picking it up Monday morning. That would give you two whole days to do this job. If it were me I'd rent a mini excavator, since you're not going to be doing any stumping I'd say 3 ton or less should be fine. These will have long reach and can dig quite deep. I just rented a 3 ton to dig stumps and was very impressed. Got the unit for a week at 900 bucks.

Wedge

 

[DmansPadge]

I would definitely suggest renting an excavator instead of a loader/backhoe. Also the idea of getting it for Saturday afternoon and having it until Monday morning is a good way to go. Just make sure to see how the rental agreement reads because a lot of rentals actually go by machine hours. One day is 8 hours, a week 40 hrs, etc.

 

[MarkV]

I sure would be tempted to do some calling and see what someone would come out and cut your ditch with a trencher would cost. You only have a 150' of trench and that would be less than half a days work here. Well within what your rental fee is going to be. Even the power co-op, considered the most expensive, charge $1.25 per foot for trenching. Let them do the hand digging to your connection point. Many plumbing companies have their own trenchers. Of course your Maine rocks may make things different than here and they will also make the backhoe work different than here.

MarkV

 

[WVBill]

Not sure if things are the same in the great white north, but here we can get a one day rental buy having them drop the unit off Friday afternoon and picking it up Monday morning.
Wedge

That's what I did when I dug the footers for my 24' x 24' workshop building a couple of years ago.

I got a bobcat mini excavator for the whole weekend for the one day rate of $600.

Never run a backhoe or excavator before so I taught myself. Completed the dig in 2 days (total 8.5 hours on the excavator clock). Actually managed to dig some pretty level footers too.

 

[budlite]

I've done this in the past year, although I did not have to go 4 ft deep. A mini-excavator is definitely superior to a backhoe for a long trench. With a BH you dig, raise the stablizer & bucket, move to the driver's station and move the tractor, then repeat every 10 ft or so. I think mine costs $350 for 8 hrs and that included pickup and delivery to my home about 12 miles from the dealer. Delivered on a Friday and picked up Monday am. Hour meter makes it easy to determine usage.

 

[MossRoad]

I rented a bobcat mini excavator for a day to dig our barn footings. I dug down 48" by 2-3 feet wide by 24' x 32' x 24' x 32'. That is 100+ feet. It took me about 2 hours. So I removed scrub trees for another 2 hours and returned the excavator for 1/2 day rental. The things are very easy to get used to. It helped that we have sand, so that sped it up a lot.

Re: Learning to use backhoe
In my situation I do not know how I could use a trencher. I built a new house last year and when I did I had the excavator bury a water line just beyond where the well is located. This water line stub is conected to a shut off valve in my basement. Unless I dig down by hand to find the buried line I need to connect to I don't know how I could use a trencher. My back goes out on a regular basis now that I am 50+. I don't mind hard work but don't need to be layed up for a another week trying to finish this project off before winter sets in.

As for a backhoe VS a trencher are you saying that your back is so bad that you cannot dig to hole near the connection end? I feel for you, having had back problems in the past. However, even with a backhoe, you are not going to be able to dig that close to the well to avoid all hand digging. Especially if you are just learning how to use the backhoe. You don't want to be learning next to your well. You may damage it. You are going to have to hand dig near it no matter what. Get a kid to do that part for you.

 

[BXpanded]

I've done this in the past year, although I did not have to go 4 ft deep. A mini-excavator is definitely superior to a backhoe for a long trench. With a BH you dig, raise the stablizer & bucket, move to the driver's station and move the tractor, then repeat every 10 ft or so. I think mine costs $350 for 8 hrs and that included pickup and delivery to my home about 12 miles from the dealer. Delivered on a Friday and picked up Monday am. Hour meter makes it easy to determine usage.

Just raise the outriggers and front bucket and push the tractor along with the hoe. Obviously, the trans must be in neutral and no brakes engaged. Don't forget to steer. The front wheels still determine the direction the machine goes when you push. Find a pipeline job somewhere and watch a pro.