Latest grab by auto manufactures

[rasmutl61]

I worked at an OEM and in aftermarket technology. Most industries are trying to implement subscription models because investors like recurring revenue. Our customers and dealers told us to include the subscription cost with the new sale so we did. Over 15 years, the subscription cost grew exponentially and was on the glide path to being 1/3 of our annual net revenue. It does not take one long to realize you must reduce it and that resulted in shifting it to our customers. We didn’t like it, but had no choice in a world where costs were increasing faster than MSRP. While it is easier to do for connected features. It will be interesting to see if OEMs can pull it off for non connected features where the hardware heated seats) is already present in vehicle.

 

[tree grower]

I know what you're saying but to me it's the same as AC. When I first started driving many decades ago ( shortly after horse and buggy ), none of my cars had AC or power windows...just something else to break. Once I started getting vehicles with AC and PW, it got to the point they were almost a necessity.
I use remote start all the time in the winter, I'm a firm believer in letting the vehicle run for a bit when cold. In the summer I don't often use the remote start but when I start my truck, I'll sit there for a couple minutes with it running...........M

My thoughts exactly. When I do Craigs List search for a 'new' truck, I set the search limits from 1930 to 1990.

 

[mgstevens]

Everybody supplying a service wants to call it their "product," while those selling products want the monthly revenue of the service contract. And the roots of this move are in the software industry. Software features require continual research and development as the underlying computer technologies become more powerful and move from existing standards to newer, more powerful standards. This advancement causes the customer to want more, and the supplier to want to be paid to develop and offer these advancements. This cycle is well known to industrial software clients, but not to automotive consumers.

In this case, the manufacturer is building the car with premium features that are not activated in a base-price car. It is cheaper to build one premium vehicle than a variety of feature plus-or-less models. Turn on or off these features via software. If you buy the premium model up front, you pay upfront and likely avoid the subscription. There is still the matter of software updates and upgrades that become available and for that, there will likely be a subscription model.

The right-to-repair fight is honorable - particularly for things that break a lot. Old, simple iron will exist for a long time for this reason among others.

 

[ericm979]

Go to OPENSource software and get OpenOffice. 100% compatible with all of the M$ products. Works on Windoze or Linux.

Apache OpenOffice Product Description

I can do everything like Word, Excel, PowerPoint and when done, save it in the M$ file format too.

Unfortunately it''s not 100% compatible. I regularly have compatibility problems when I give my OpenOffice documents and presentations to Windows/Mac users running the MS versions, or I get their documents or presentations. It hasn't been enough to get me to build a Windows VM for my Linux work machine like I did to run Sketchup on my personal Linux machine, but it's still a pain.

For personal use it's probably much less of an issue. If you're fortunate to not need to share business presentations or documents with drawings in them, you'll likely not run into any problems.

 

[Snezzy]

The way to deal with that is to not buy their crap.

A year ago I was reading something about how people were sick and tired of all the software companies switching to subscriptions instead of standalone software.
I remember feeling very good about not using any microsoft or apple garbage.
In Linux there is more and better software and all of it is free.
I tell people this all the time. I show them my OS and let them play with it, I show them the various software packages etc.. So far I have achieved a conversion rate of ZERO.

People are funny. They get used to taking the beating and actually experience discomfort at the prospect of no more beatings, no more abuse, opening their cage fills them with dread.

I never "converted" to Linux. Instead I was a Unix user, and used Widnows for a while, but picked up Linux when it became available. I love having the command-line stuff that's very much the same as what I had under Unix Version 6. I even have a bootleg copy of the Lions' commentary on the Version 6 source code. It's got the famous context-switch comment on source-code line 2238, "You are not expected to understand this."

And I have to agree, I've never managed to convert anyone except my wife to Linux.

I finally did give up using my IH 454 when it went to taking two days just to get it started. Also, its cracked block does not inspire putting in a lot of effort. Maybe there will be a Python app for fixing cracked blocks?

 

[Blue Mule]

Yeah this is an automatic no for me. I've been fortunate to have several new vehicles in recent years, and the older I get the more I love heated seats and heated steering wheels. But I will not pay a dime for use of those features after the already expensive sale. Nope, not me.

 

[IndyJay]

I worked in IT for over 25 years, as a UNIX system administrator, who was forced by mangagement to make WIndoze computers work with UNIX. While it could be done, 75% of my time was doing updates to keep Windoze running. When management opened the door too far, I left. From that time on, I worked for myself, doing computer installs and upgrades. While I dabbled in Windoze, when Version 10 came out, I had had enough and retired. I never regretted either move. When the early versions of Linux came out, I was all in. I have been using Linux now for many, many years and have never looked back. I converted my daughters, son, wife, and many others. As for intimidation, that is what Windoze is all about!

As for cars and subscriptions, the way to say no to that is not buy or subscribe. I too am looking for a much older vehicle for my next "new" car. Even if I have to pay $40K to find one! I can live without AC, PW, AT, etc, etc, etc. Some of us 'older folk' remember when there was no such thing, and we survived. AC was called '4-60'....4 windows down doing 60 mph!

Yep, I blocked the "free" auto upgrade to W10. Wasn't comfortable with the fact that software that previously costed near $100 to buy or upgrade was being pushed for "free" and no, you couldn't decline it, you HAD to take the upgrade. It didn't help that it had a new AI "feature" named Cortana that right out of box had to "get to know you" (their words, not mine) by reading all of your emails, documents and browsing history. I've had girl friends like that and had the same reaction... no thanks!

 

[frcnLS]

I heard that Volvo will require me to buy gas to keep my 1990 245 on the road! The nerve!

My next new car won't be.

 

[CaptFerd]

Imagine going 60 mph in a 55 speed zone. OnStar detects it and you are automatically fined and your credit score is reduced. If you have reached your allowed ration of gas they know and you wont be able to pump gas. OnStar has the ability to monitor every aspect of the vehicle you drive from emissions to starting, shutting it down, unlocking or locking you out if necessary. The first thing people do is link their phones. Gives them access to a lt of personal info the car ends up knowing more about you than you ever imagined. I could almost guarantee that the seat warmer has very little to do with keeping your butt comfy. Hell could be to tax you for that methane gas you just blasted into it. (LOL) There is a very good reason behind these forced so called options. This is just a small part of the new world order that the Federal Gov is forcing us into. Tracking everyone's every move is their top priority. Build Back Better they say.

 

[tacticalturnip]

BMW is doing this, $39 a month or $390 a year. Who needs (wants) a heated seat more than a few months of the year anyway?

Here is a question, how the hell are you alright with subscription prices for basic features in a product you've already paid an absurd amount to acquire? Let alone that these are items that previously did not require you to take an emotional fisting from these companies, and has literally been implemented for no other reason than to bend us over?

Is it an ego thing? Is it insecurity? I mean, I have both of these one form or another, and they manifest in my personality, but that doesn't mean I want to willingly be sodomized by the businesses I'm compelled to deal with on any regular basis.

Frankly, if they're going to attempt to impregnate me I'd prefer them to pay me.

[EDIT]: If I've missed a joke, well, I admit my own foolishness and apologize; this entire thread is nothing but stroke inducing levels of raised blood pressure.

 

[charles todd]

I guess I have driven 40+ years and never had remote start. If they block a feature I don't need or want, who cares? I'm not a big fan of the overall concept, but how often do you need remote start?

Almost everyday.

CT

 

[Blue Mule]

Here is a question, how the hell are you alright with subscription prices for basic features in a product you've already paid an absurd amount to acquire? Let alone that these are items that previously did not require you to take an emotional fisting from these companies, and has literally been implemented for no other reason than to bend us over?

Is it an ego thing? Is it insecurity? I mean, I have both of these one form or another, and they manifest in my personality, but that doesn't mean I want to willingly be sodomized by the businesses I'm compelled to deal with on any regular basis.

Frankly, if they're going to attempt to impregnate me I'd prefer them to pay me.

[EDIT]: If I've missed a joke, well, I admit my own foolishness and apologize; this entire thread is nothing but stroke inducing levels of raised blood pressure.

Sadly it's not a joke. It's already happening.

 

[bmaverick]

I worked at an OEM and in aftermarket technology. Most industries are trying to implement subscription models because investors like recurring revenue. Our customers and dealers told us to include the subscription cost with the new sale so we did. Over 15 years, the subscription cost grew exponentially and was on the glide path to being 1/3 of our annual net revenue. It does not take one long to realize you must reduce it and that resulted in shifting it to our customers. We didn’t like it, but had no choice in a world where costs were increasing faster than MSRP. While it is easier to do for connected features. It will be interesting to see if OEMs can pull it off for non connected features where the hardware heated seats) is already present in vehicle.

This to a degree is opposite to the Right-To-Repair laws. Purchasing is no longer the face value of truly owning. I can see the near future to buy the product, but pay a monthly fee just to start the vehicle. If you miss payment of the fee, the kill switch is applied.

How about another monthly fee of, want to drive the speed limit of 70mph on the interstate, pay an extra fee, else the vehicle is limited to no more than 60mph. Don't think this hasn't been considered in this realm of gadgets and devices.

Fees and more fees on the bill. Want to use that backup camera Ka-Ching. Want to use the rear climate control for the back passengers, Ka-Ching. Want to sit inside and listen to toons, Ka-Ching. Wait that is happening now. Want to charge you cell phone or devices, Ka-Ching.

When you look at several of the add-ons, people will be wise enough to circumvent much of it. Its human nature. If paying to run devices in the vehicle comes along, a simple extra battery, solar panel or tap into the vehicle harness with trailer spicing hardware would do the trick.

As we look at vehicles going this way, you know darn well TRACTORS are aiming towards this too.

 

[bmaverick]

Unfortunately it''s not 100% compatible. I regularly have compatibility problems when I give my OpenOffice documents and presentations to Windows/Mac users running the MS versions, or I get their documents or presentations. It hasn't been enough to get me to build a Windows VM for my Linux work machine like I did to run Sketchup on my personal Linux machine, but it's still a pain.

For personal use it's probably much less of an issue. If you're fortunate to not need to share business presentations or documents with drawings in them, you'll likely not run into any problems.

The problem is Windoze/Mac. I've had issues of MS-Word into Windoze/Mac too.

I tried Sketchup and it's lousy. I run FreeCAD v19 instead. And the translators for parametrics to others systems are free with it too. A full package. FreeCAD: Your own 3D parametric modeler

 

[cullenskink]

I've always given thought to switching to Linux, since I was a teenager actually, but it comes off as rather intimidating.

I've been using Linux (Ubuntu ) as my primary desktop OS for 4 years, no regrets. I recently converted my 70 year old hunting buddy to Linux, he was getting really annoyed using Microsoft, he thinks linux is the best thing since sliced bread. It's trivial to install and free as in beer.

 

[Raul-02]

Maybe there will be a Python app for fixing cracked blocks?

A few years ago I found a tig consumable that lets me TIG cast iron with no preheat. I used it it worked. If ya want I'll see if I can dig up the product name and source.

 

[Raul-02]

tried Sketchup and it's lousy. I run FreeCAD v19 instead.

I've been struggling with Free Cad. It seems an imponderable mess compared to the very expensive commercial package TurboCad that runs on windows. I keep a hard disk with Win 7 on it for just the one program.

 

[charles todd]

I know what you're saying but to me it's the same as AC. When I first started driving many decades ago ( shortly after horse and buggy ), none of my cars had AC or power windows...just something else to break. Once I started getting vehicles with AC and PW, it got to the point they were almost a necessity.
I use remote start all the time in the winter, I'm a firm believer in letting the vehicle run for a bit when cold. In the summer I don't often use the remote start but when I start my truck, I'll sit there for a couple minutes with it running...........M

I remote start almost daily in the summer. Amazing how much cooler it is inside a black truck when you start it from the other side of the parking lot.

CT

 

[patriot1776]

I see the aftermarket or your local tuning/performance shop taking care of this if it comes to it. We have a shop here in my small town that is a nationally known GM performance shop, they manufacture and install custom performance parts among other things, included among those other things is their ecu work, there is nothing they cannot program, delete, add or modify on a gm vehicle. And that's just a small local shop.

 

[merlynr]

Just read GM,Subaru and others now are going to have a mandatory subscription for;heated seats,remote start ect.Can you imagine!Unreal.In GM's case you are forced to purchase OnStar,no choice rolled into the price.
I was considering a trade,this may be enough for me(and a lot of others) not too.High end luxury
vehicles have had this for a while.

my daughter just purchased a cherokee suv and I wonder what she will get hit with?