Kubota Tier 4 Engines

[houstonscott]

I agree, tractor engines and systems have to successful in operation but must be designed to sit inactive for long periods. That's what tractors do, sit for weeks or months then work. They must be reliable after the time sitting, that's were tier 4 may have issues. HS

 

[TexasBoy]

Im all for striving for better air quality, but unless the rest of the world follows the same Rules/Regs we are being forced to use, it really a waste of time. What we have now is like having a 'peeing section' at one end of your swimming pool. Besides, the total number of Ag tractors out there is so small I cant believe the tree-huggers are force-feeding that junk on diesel tractor engines.

 

[houstonscott]

Im all for striving for better air quality, but unless the rest of the world follows the same Rules/Regs we are being forced to use, it really a waste of time. What we have now is like having a 'peeing section' at one end of your swimming pool. Besides, the total number of Ag tractors out there is so small I cant believe the tree-huggers are force-feeding that junk on diesel tractor engines.

It's liberal democrats, don't like big government regulations, don't vote for them. HS

 

[DeereMann]

Our size tractors do not have electronic computer control, high pressure common rail injection, or catalysts because the EPA does not require them to. As The Fred mentioned, we "only" have DPF, maybe DOC, and retarded injection timing.

Why? Because EPA doesn't require it. Tier IV is NOT the same limit for a small diesel as a mid or big one, guys. They went easier on small diesels because the cost of all that emissions junk would put OEMs out of business for small equipment like ours.

That said, I sure am glad I got my Tier 2 tractor in 2012 so as to have full power & no 'diaper' to change! :laughing:

 

[dstig1]

Yes, but only kind of applicable to tractors.

Truck engines are really made for mileage and power (which are VERY related!). Computer controls, high pressure ignition systems and all the bells and whistles came earlier, and then emissions changes got piled on. Power has increased, efficiency has increased, but the emissions controls have definitely set some of those advantages back. The same truck without DPF/urea/etc. will get better mileage than one without it, but at what cost to the environment?

On the other hand, tractor engines prior to the new emissions requirements have for the most part been fairly basic in smaller tractors like our Kubotas. So, when the emissions regulations were piled on, computer controls, high pressure common rail injection, etc. all became a necessity. I think Fred's pretty accurate in saying that it's likely a wash between the two. And they definitely are easier to start/run smoother/etc. There is also a parts cost advantage offset to NOT having complex mechanical injection pumps and things.

Ah yes, but it is very applicable - You reduce mileage you burn more fuel. Do you get less particulate from burning less fuel, or from using a DPF? Not sure myself, but when you put the question that way, why would you want to burn more fuel for the same output? That is a question that sets engineers (like me and my cousin) to sputtering as it is backwards from engineering philosophy - do more with less. Emissions on diesels have resulted in "do less with more." That is a very grating concept for folks like myself.

As for the note another poster made about it not fully hitting small tractors. I would add one key word: YET The fact that my tractor is Tier 4 interim, and I bought it specifically to AVOID Full Tier 4 means something...

Do I like clean air? Sure do! But the questions that are always left out of that loaded question are: How clean? At what cost? There is no perfect solution. You can make the air perfectly clean at the expense of putting us all back to the stone age. You can make the air very dirty, like it was in the stone age (OK, the coal age - middle ages - but ironic, isn't it?) ...or you can find a balance that makes the economy move and people safe enough. Are we there now? If not, how much further? The problem I see is the answer from the EPA-type folks is always MORE!! Heck, you can't get promoted if you say things look good like they are now. You need to go with the MORE flow. So my cynicism rises...

 

[houstonscott]

If it puts something, anything in the air, the EPA is going to regulate it, and until people put a stop to the EPA, more regulations are coming, for small tractors, lawn mowers, weedeaters, everything. HS

 

[DeereMann]

dstig1: :stirthepot:

I'm an engineer too. Worse yet, i work in the powergen / diesel industry. Worse yet, my work is directly affected by EPA. Worse yet, your comments are like needles in raw nerves!

EPA has outlived its mission & purpose, so, like any government agency, is making up irrelevant micro-management stuff to stay alive - without accountability to anybody.

I am not an anti-government idealogue, but neither do I tolerate ridiculous make-work by lazy people/agencies.

I don't know what to do about citizens taking back their government from moneyed lobbyist interests. It almost seems too far gone from the original government concept to recover anymore.

Hence we are turning in to a Bananna Republic of America.

:soapbox:

 

[bayouswamprat]

I have a 902 in my mini excavator. Runs great. The excavator was purchased in early 2005 and drowned in hurricane Katrina. Kubota dealer cleaned it up and replaced the electronics/electrical. Now, 10 years later, all we've done is routine maintenance. However, now it's burning oil, lots of oil. Still runs great. Just burns a lot of oil (1 qt an hour). It's at 1300 hrs. I've had other makes of excavators but this one has worked the best at any price. Any suggestions on the oil issue I'm having?

 

[Paystar]

So while looking at the Grand L60's I was thinking....the bigger h.p. models have turbos and the smaller ones are naturally aspirated. Do you think one will work better as far as regens?
Reason I wonder is because like on my big trucks, which have variable geometry turbos, they play a large part in controlling the heat needed to regen when it is called for.

I know, totally different animal, but do you think the turbo is any help on a compact tractor engine as far as tier 4?

 

[kuboman]

I have a 902 in my mini excavator. Runs great. The excavator was purchased in early 2005 and drowned in hurricane Katrina. Kubota dealer cleaned it up and replaced the electronics/electrical. Now, 10 years later, all we've done is routine maintenance. However, now it's burning oil, lots of oil. Still runs great. Just burns a lot of oil (1 qt an hour). It's at 1300 hrs. I've had other makes of excavators but this one has worked the best at any price. Any suggestions on the oil issue I'm having?

Since it is likely your engine had water in it I would suggest that your rings/cylinders are worn badly. You have excessive oil consumption. At 1300 hrs your engine should still be just a baby. You need an over haul or new engine.

 

[MHarryE]

So while looking at the Grand L60's I was thinking....the bigger h.p. models have turbos and the smaller ones are naturally aspirated. Do you think one will work better as far as regens? Reason I wonder is because like on my big trucks, which have variable geometry turbos, they play a large part in controlling the heat needed to regen when it is called for. I know, totally different animal, but do you think the turbo is any help on a compact tractor engine as far as tier 4?

I am not familiar with non-turbo Diesels over the 37 HP class that meet Tier 4 final. Back when the regs came out in 2004 our engine people told us turbos we're going to be required. Turbos provide a more consistent air charge to work with and are therefore easier to treat. But turbos cost money and if you can get by without... Then again, after the Volkswagen fiasco, how many others are yet to be caught?

 

[Paystar]

I don't know why people are ragging on VW. They were doing us all a favor. It's only a shame they got caught. Wait and see the fuel mileage and the unreliability we get now with the new versions.

 

[bayouswamprat]

Since it is likely your engine had water in it I would suggest that your rings/cylinders are worn badly. You have excessive oil consumption. At 1300 hrs your engine should still be just a baby. You need an over haul or new engine.

Thanks kuboman. That's what I was thinking. Worst part about it going under is that it was salt water. Oh well time for a new motor. Thanks again

 

[kuboman]

Thanks kuboman. That's what I was thinking. Worst part about it going under is that it was salt water. Oh well time for a new motor. Thanks again

Sorry for the unhappy suggestion but unless a flooded engine is clean immediately rust occurs very soon and with salt water well.....also there would be contaminants such as silt/sand etc. which are very hard to flush out of an engine unless it was completely disassembled. Look on the bright side, you get to start at 0 hrs. That's always fun and exciting.

 

[buickanddeere]

Kubota is so bothered by having to meet Tier IV specs. That they now sell bolt in replacement gas/LP/NG engines to take the place of their diesel engines. in particular for light and medium duty applications. I have a link to the info if you don't believe me.

 

[buickanddeere]

Im all for striving for better air quality, but unless the rest of the world follows the same Rules/Regs we are being forced to use, it really a waste of time. What we have now is like having a 'peeing section' at one end of your swimming pool. Besides, the total number of Ag tractors out there is so small I cant believe the tree-huggers are force-feeding that junk on diesel tractor engines.

Because the tree huggers suffer no expense ,loss or inconvenience . Of course they are in favor of Tier IV and Tier V.

 

[Paystar]

Kubota is so bothered by having to meet Tier IV specs. That they now sell bolt in replacement gas/LP/NG engines to take the place of their diesel engines. in particular for light and medium duty applications. I have a link to the info if you don't believe me.

I don't really think they are "bothered." After all, they were supplying tier 4 engines to Caterpillar for their CTL's and skid steers. So I think people are pretty confident in their engines.

 

[buickanddeere]

I suppose Kubota offers those interchangable spark ignition engines for some reason?

 

[Paystar]

They must have a demand for them from somebody? Interesting. First I had heard of it.

Maybe for municipality's that have switched their vehicles to those fuels?

 

[buickanddeere]

They must have a demand for them from somebody? Interesting. First I had heard of it.

Maybe for municipality's that have switched their vehicles to those fuels?

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